Author Topic: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.  (Read 19306 times)

von_khan

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2008, 09:07:14 pm »
I think it'll fall in around 50 without too many options. Gorgeous car, I find it more pleasing to the eyes than the 3 series sedan. (The coupe is a different story  ;D ).

Five bucks says that 5.1 second time is underrated. If the 335 does it in 4.8ish, I cant see why the S4 shouldnt be able to keep up.

Offline johngenx

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2008, 09:59:16 pm »
A BMW 3351 X Drive is $51k CDN. Why would I want an Audi for $60k?

Cause it's an "S" model, and they cost lots.  Audi sees the M-series cars as the competition, not the "normal" 335i, even if the 335 offers similar performance to the S4.

Mitlov

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2008, 10:24:46 pm »
A BMW 3351 X Drive is $51k CDN. Why would I want an Audi for $60k?

Cause it's an "S" model, and they cost lots.  Audi sees the M-series cars as the competition, not the "normal" 335i, even if the 335 offers similar performance to the S4.

I'm not sure that's true anymore.  The Audi S5 has been compared by most people to the 335i coupe, and a 335xi coupe is only a few thousand less than an S5 once you add leather (at least in the States).  And the S4 should be less expensive than the S5, given that it's using a supercharged V6 instead of a V8, and that the A4 is, in general, less expensive than the S5 (compare 3.2L pricing, for example).  While not exactly at the same price point as the 335xi, I think, looking overall at the new S4, it was meant to take on the 335xi instead of the M3.  The next-gen RS4 and RS5 will be the M3 fighters.

Mitlov

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2008, 10:29:55 pm »
A BMW 3351 X Drive is $51k CDN. Why would I want an Audi for $60k?

More luxurious interior, much more interior space, superior AWD system (especially now with the addition of torque vectoring), more power, more torque, better standard equipment (i.e., real leather).  That's not to say that the BMW doesn't have any advantages (I'm willing to bet that it has better steering feel, and some people always accuse performance Audis of having flinty rides).  But there are plenty of reasons why someone might choose a $60k no-options S4 over a $51k no-options 335xi.

In my opinion, the 3-Series is a better choice if all you care about is the driving experience, but the Audi competitor tends to be a more well-rounded luxury sports sedan (or coupe).

Offline dave

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2008, 12:30:18 pm »
A BMW 3351 X Drive is $51k CDN. Why would I want an Audi for $60k?

More luxurious interior, much more interior space, superior AWD system (especially now with the addition of torque vectoring), more power, more torque, better standard equipment (i.e., real leather).  That's not to say that the BMW doesn't have any advantages (I'm willing to bet that it has better steering feel, and some people always accuse performance Audis of having flinty rides).  But there are plenty of reasons why someone might choose a $60k no-options S4 over a $51k no-options 335xi.

In my opinion, the 3-Series is a better choice if all you care about is the driving experience, but the Audi competitor tends to be a more well-rounded luxury sports sedan (or coupe).

Real leather is now standard on the 335i.  The 335i will certainly be the performer.  Those Audis are just way too nose heavy.  Probably why the 335i coupe was taking the previous gen RS4 at Car & Driver's Lightning Lap.

Offline DriverJeff

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2008, 01:17:50 pm »
A BMW 3351 X Drive is $51k CDN. Why would I want an Audi for $60k?

More luxurious interior, much more interior space, superior AWD system (especially now with the addition of torque vectoring), more power, more torque, better standard equipment (i.e., real leather).  That's not to say that the BMW doesn't have any advantages (I'm willing to bet that it has better steering feel, and some people always accuse performance Audis of having flinty rides).  But there are plenty of reasons why someone might choose a $60k no-options S4 over a $51k no-options 335xi.

In my opinion, the 3-Series is a better choice if all you care about is the driving experience, but the Audi competitor tends to be a more well-rounded luxury sports sedan (or coupe).

Real leather is now standard on the 335i.  The 335i will certainly be the performer.  Those Audis are just way too nose heavy.  Probably why the 335i coupe was taking the previous gen RS4 at Car & Driver's Lightning Lap.

You didn't seem to find the A4 too nose-heavy when you were terrorizing Land Rovers near my house a couple of years back.  :)

The new B9s are (like the A5 / S5) set with the engine further back now, and with the smaller, lighter V6 in the S4, Vman could be right -- it might not be as noticable as it once was. 

Hell, I'm still reeling from a FWD Cobalt beating the WRX 265 in a comparo test.  My world is upside down.
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Offline dave

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2008, 01:42:46 pm »
A BMW 3351 X Drive is $51k CDN. Why would I want an Audi for $60k?

More luxurious interior, much more interior space, superior AWD system (especially now with the addition of torque vectoring), more power, more torque, better standard equipment (i.e., real leather).  That's not to say that the BMW doesn't have any advantages (I'm willing to bet that it has better steering feel, and some people always accuse performance Audis of having flinty rides).  But there are plenty of reasons why someone might choose a $60k no-options S4 over a $51k no-options 335xi.

In my opinion, the 3-Series is a better choice if all you care about is the driving experience, but the Audi competitor tends to be a more well-rounded luxury sports sedan (or coupe).

Real leather is now standard on the 335i.  The 335i will certainly be the performer.  Those Audis are just way too nose heavy.  Probably why the 335i coupe was taking the previous gen RS4 at Car & Driver's Lightning Lap.

You didn't seem to find the A4 too nose-heavy when you were terrorizing Land Rovers near my house a couple of years back.  :)

The new B9s are (like the A5 / S5) set with the engine further back now, and with the smaller, lighter V6 in the S4, Vman could be right -- it might not be as noticable as it once was. 

Hell, I'm still reeling from a FWD Cobalt beating the WRX 265 in a comparo test.  My world is upside down.

HA!  I'm not sure who dropped the bigger load in his pants...me or the Land Rover driver.  The A4 certainly handled well on those switch-backs, can't argue with that.

vdk

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2008, 06:01:54 pm »
looking for some info on the S4 on audi.ca I stumbled upon something cruel... no stick for the a4..

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2008, 06:05:30 pm »
^^^^I thought no manual for just the V6 A4.  YOu can get it with a stick with the 4 banger turbo IIRC...
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2008, 10:06:14 pm »
I believe the stickshift is a late intro on the new A4

Offline wing

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2008, 07:43:53 am »
Yes early next year I thought I heard from Audi, either that or that was FWD that was available early '09.  Manual A4 in the 4 only and the wagon only comes in auto.

asam

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2008, 04:56:38 am »
December is when you can order a 6 spd in A4, probably a "spring" delivery.

asam

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #32 on: October 10, 2008, 04:58:25 am »
A BMW 3351 X Drive is $51k CDN. Why would I want an Audi for $60k?
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More luxurious interior, much more interior space, superior AWD system (especially now with the addition of torque vectoring), more power, more torque, better standard equipment (i.e., real leather).  That's not to say that the BMW doesn't have any advantages (I'm willing to bet that it has better steering feel, and some people always accuse performance Audis of having flinty rides).  But there are plenty of reasons why someone might choose a $60k no-options S4 over a $51k no-options 335xi.

In my opinion, the 3-Series is a better choice if all you care about is the driving experience, but the Audi competitor tends to be a more well-rounded luxury sports sedan (or coupe).


I agree

loser40

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2008, 12:48:47 pm »
I regularly see 2 new shape A4 Avants and 1 saloon.

At first I wasn't completely convinced by the new design, but the more I see these cars the more I love them.  Even the saloon looks sexy, unlike the last few face-lifted models.

As for Canadian S4 pricing, I'd guess late/mid $40's, with the RS around $70k'ish.

I reckon to keep the list price down Audi will scimp a little on standard equipment.

M.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2008, 12:51:55 pm by loser40 »

Offline JSCC

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2008, 12:41:05 pm »
As for Canadian S4 pricing, I'd guess late/mid $40's, with the RS around $70k'ish.

It is already CAD$65,000 for the S5.
So I would not think anything lower than CAD$60,000 for the S4 and CAD$85,000 for the RS4.
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prail1

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2008, 11:52:04 am »
Is there really any point in getting the 3.2 with the new upgraded 2.0T? Sure it has a bit more horsepower, but the torque numbers are the same, and the 2.0 gets it's full power much sooner in that respect.

Acceleration times are almost identical as well... I'm just at a loss as to why anybody would go with the 3.2 when the smaller power plant is a much better value? Does Audi plan on beefing up the 3.2 in short order? That's really the only engine they currently use I see as being uncompetitive for the price it demands.

Does Audi do warranty work up here for vehicles purchased down south? It's certainly potentially more worth your while to make the foray down and save a wad of cash purchasing them in the states, you can get a fully fully loaded A4 for the price of a base A4 here!  8)

Edit: Was able to look it up, apparently Audi will honor US spec cars warranty up north! Nice...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2008, 12:20:23 pm by prail1 »

vdk

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2008, 03:09:10 pm »
Is there really any point in getting the 3.2 with the new upgraded 2.0T? Sure it has a bit more horsepower, but the torque numbers are the same, and the 2.0 gets it's full power much sooner in that respect.

Acceleration times are almost identical as well... I'm just at a loss as to why anybody would go with the 3.2 when the smaller power plant is a much better value? Does Audi plan on beefing up the 3.2 in short order? That's really the only engine they currently use I see as being uncompetitive for the price it demands.

Does Audi do warranty work up here for vehicles purchased down south? It's certainly potentially more worth your while to make the foray down and save a wad of cash purchasing them in the states, you can get a fully fully loaded A4 for the price of a base A4 here!  8)

Edit: Was able to look it up, apparently Audi will honor US spec cars warranty up north! Nice...


Beats me.. the 3.2 AFAIK is priced between a 328i and a 335i am I right? Audi has nothing to compete with the 335i (except for the old-S4).. maybe the new supercharged 3.0 V6 in the A6 will drop down to the A4..

mark

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2008, 04:53:21 pm »
I was at the Owasco Audi event at Mosport yesterday with my brother.  Got a chance to drive the new A4 for just a few seconds through a quick pylon maneuver. In dynamic mode, its pretty responsive.  I've not driven a 3 series so I won't compare.  Watching people go through this a few times, the 2.0T was much quicker than the 3.2 (all automatics) and the 3.2 had an annoying farting sound when it shifted. 

Off topic, the Owasco event at Mosport was awesome.  It was by invite to owasco customers and we spent the day doing accident avoidance, apex cornering, straight line acceleration and then had two hours for open laps on the track.  These were all in your own car - except for the "Meet the new A4" session - which was the aforementioned pylon avoidance move.   My brother and I did laps in his 2006 2.0T A4 S line.  It was a lot of fun.  Hope he's invited again next year, so I can see how my car compares to his.  Mine is a 2000 A4 1.8T, chipped, exhaust, coilovers, which is now worth less than I've paid in upgrade parts, so I'll still keep it for a while.

vdk

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Re: 2009 Audi S4 -- BMW 335i, the gauntlet has been thrown.
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2008, 01:56:39 pm »
No V8, but Still Thrilling. Really
By Matt Davis, Contributor Email

The 2009 Audi S4 sedan finally comes close to actually satisfying all of our expectations of an Audi S car, even on track day.

We get just as excited as anyone when we drive an Audi RS6 with that awesome turbocharged V10 mojo. But given current needs, the Audi V10 can seem like heinous overkill, and indeed such engines have a problematic future, regardless of said overkill's sweetness.

Meanwhile the S-line of Audi variants hasn't been too thrilling up until now. It's been good stuff, but more like luxury trim matched with big horsepower, like an old-fashioned Mercedes-Benz. Even the Audi S5 with its perennial 4.2-liter Audi V8 has fallen short of our expectations for suitable S-line specialness.

Given this, it says a lot that the new 2009 Audi S4 sedan has busted through our wall of skepticism. There's no twin-turbo V10, but it's got a real engine. And this time the S-line designation really means something.

Supercharging Returns to Audi
The 3.0-liter V6 TFSI engine in the new Audi A6 range is the first supercharged Audi engine in several decades. In standard form, the Roots-type Eaton supercharger provides max boost pressure of 11.6 psi, delivering 285 horsepower and 310 pound-feet of torque for the A6. For the 2009 Audi S4, this same engine with the same boost results in 329 hp and 324 lb-ft of torque. With the standard six-speed Getrag manual transmission in place, this power gets the S4 sedan to 100 km/h (62 mph) from a stop in just 5.1 seconds, while the optional S tronic seven-speed dual-clutch transmission gets you there in 5.3 seconds. Which is plenty quick either way.

The supercharger here is almost identical to the four-lobe unit used for the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V. On the quaint, narrow roads of Mallorca and during several heated laps of the local racing circuit, the clear benefits of supercharged power could not be denied. While you're best off keeping revs up in the sweet spot over 2,900 rpm where all the torque kicks in, most of the power is available from way down low thanks to the no-lag raison d'ętre of a supercharger.

After the massive deceleration customarily required to set up any heavily understeering, all-wheel-drive Audi for correct entry into a curve and then properly set up for full hookup from all four tires upon exiting said curve, turbo lag and surge are not quite what you want when you hit the throttle. The quick surge of response from a supercharger does this trick in far better style.

Shifting Paradigms
For North America, buying preferences for manual transmission versus S tronic is surprisingly 50/50, the Audi people tell us. After both tearing it up and cruising meekly using both, we give the six-speed manual the ever-so-slight edge. With the manual, the car loses a noticeable 77 pounds mostly off the front end, reducing overall weight to 3,638 pounds (some 231 pounds less than the previous S4). The shifts catch quickly, and we could hear the supercharger just enough to feel like a badass. We could do with less throw on the shift lever, but we cannot slight the shift action itself.

Meanwhile, this seven-speed S tronic is Audi's first dual-clutch transmission joined to a longitudinally positioned engine, not to mention the company's first dual-clutch unit that's designed to withstand serious torque. Of course, the transmission's action reduces supercharger whine to a whisper except for a brief interlude between 2,000 rpm and 3,000 rpm at full throttle, and that's no fun. We'd like much larger shift paddles and a more assertive sense of crisp shifts, but the system works very well all the same.

Opting for the $2,900 Audi Drive Select (ADS) system gives the S4 pilot a choice between the usual Comfort, Auto and Dynamic setups for recalibrating the throttle response, shift timing (for S tronic), steering assist and suspension feel. For the S4, this system also features Individual mode, which can be altered through the MMI control interface to mix and match all of these parameters to customize the setup you prefer. There is also the ability to switch off stability control completely, or to keep just the anti-skid recovery (ASR) function to monitor sideways sliding for you.

More Like RWD Is More Like It
At least once during every drive of a hot-rod Audi S, R, or RS model, we ask the Question, as in: "Will Audi ever give in and make us a rear-driver performance car with the engine up front?" In response this time, Peter Schwarzenbauer of the Audi management board told us, "Never. Not while I'm here, at the very least."

So, rather than invest in a rear-wheel-drive platform that can turn an Audi into a BMW, Ingolstadt has done everything it can to urge its heavy, high-performance all-wheel-drive cars to let us have more fun during more technical driving — that is to say, something more than the usual lack of decent turn-in followed by mad understeer. In this case, the 2009 Audi S4 introduces the company's pretty good solution.

For around $900 (and well worth it), you can equip your S4 with a rear-mounted sport differential supplied by Magna in Austria. Much like the recently introduced rear differential for the Haldex all-wheel-drive system used by Saab and the new all-wheel-drive BMW xDrive solution, the Magna differential shifts torque across the rear wheels, accelerating the outside rear wheel to push you through a curve proactively instead of just waiting around for stability control to poop on the party.

We got our best results by disabling the stability control and anti-slide-recovery electronics, dialing the ADS configuration to Dynamic and just going for it. Thanks to an overall ride height that's 0.8 inch lower than that of the A6, the optional 19-inch wheels with harder Dunlop tires, Audi's newest steering with just 2.2 turns lock-to-lock, 80 percent of the engine torque going to the rear wheels (40 percent front/60 percent rear is the usual split), stiffer springs, more tire camber and steering caster, and quick supercharged engine (whew!), the 2009 Audi S4 attacked the track and rural roads with uncommon zeal for a car based on the cooking A4.

This car can still understeer, but it now has a chassis that's up to clubsport-style antics. Of course, if you could equip an A4 with a 25:75 bias Quattro setup with the extreme possibility of a 5:95 split and then peel off another 200 pounds yet, such a car could be a legend. For now, though, the 2009 Audi S4 is sweet progress.

Fierce and Frugal
Even though the S4's supercharged V6 encourages you to seek its 7,000-rpm redline and its exhaust note puts us in mind of a double-barreled fat-bore V8, Audi is estimating this car with a manual transmission will achieve 17 mpg EPA city and 32 mpg EPA highway in the U.S. The S tronic car coaxes 1 mpg more from the highway rating.

Audi itself reckons that this supercharged V6 delivers 30 percent better fuel economy than the 4.2-liter V8. Carbon-dioxide emissions ratings are way down here versus the former V8 as well, to the tune of 21 percent.

It's the way of the future. Get used to it.

Hurry Up! No, Wait!
While the U.S. might be Audi's fourth-largest market in total sales, we are receiving 3,000 S4s (all sedans) of the expected 7,000 units (both sedans and Avant wagons) that are scheduled for production next year. So we're No. 1! Except that we'll have to wait until August 2009 for deliveries to start, so maybe we're not.

The estimated $49,000 base price for the new Audi S4 sedan represents only a modest price increase against the outgoing S4. Not a single S4 will be sold for less than $55,000, however, given the desirable cost options list (which unfortunately does not include 20-inch wheels, which are reserved for the S5). Every 2009 Audi S4 will have a sunroof, though, so make certain you're not too, too tall.

Edmunds attended a manufacturer-sponsored event, to which selected members of the press were invited, to facilitate this report.