Topic: Barrie's dream job!

[toolatecrew]

Better to angry here than to do it in the real world and beat the neighbour's cat right?

[ovr50]

Better to angry here than to do it in the real world and beat the neighbour's cat right?

  Yep.

Outright falsehood's tend to pee me off also, so you're not alone. The trick is not to worry about it......

[tpl]

Many millions of dollars have been raised by the automotive Companies since the turn of the 20th century which have really helped build this Country. The treatment by these companies was the main reason why the Unions had to be formed to begin with. The abuse by them was beyond normal or proper working conditions and the workers finally had enough and Unionized. It would revert back to the unhealthy nonsence if they were to be elimanated as I have witnessed many ridiculous whiteshirts who would turn the working man into a slave if they could. 

Strange that nearly 70% of the Canadian workforce is non unionized (its probaly higher but the only easy data was from 92) How can 70% of the workforce survive being so horribly mistreated? Imagine if unions were elimited and people has to survie what the other 70% had to survive.  How you can continue to show your face after being proven to spew such unsported GARBAGE day afeter day is beyond reason.

70% ?   So only 30% are  CAW etc. +civil servants?    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.     I would have thought  that the number was nearer 50% unionized of which most are in CUPE or one of the other public sevice unions such as teachers.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Just some numbers
CUPE has 540,000 members
CAW is over 250,000 members
Secondary Teachers in Ont 60,000
Public Elementary teachers in 73,000
probably over 1 million in different construction unions
there is about 17,000,000 people working ( higher then I thought) http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/Labour/LFS/lfs-en.htm

I also thought it would be close to 40%

[Ex-airbalancer]

Just gets ppls anger all cranked up. 

If you get angry reading a thread on a car forum....you probably should be visiting a therapist...regularly....

 

[tpl]

Here are the latest #
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/labr69a.htm

You are pretty anger today

barrie has a right to believe in what he wants , as do you toolatecrew
Dont like what he writes , do read his post
Life is to short, to be anger

I agree with you AirB.  None of Barrie's CAW  propaganda makes me angry.   None of Barrie's posts make me even slightly annoyed.  Sometimes on matters of technical accuracy I might argue discuss his posts by replying to him. Other wise I read and learn about GM from him.
Now the left wingers who reduce arguments they dislike to ad hominem rants..... they are a different
matter. 

[Snowman]

Many millions of dollars have been raised by the automotive Companies since the turn of the 20th century which have really helped build this Country. The treatment by these companies was the main reason why the Unions had to be formed to begin with. The abuse by them was beyond normal or proper working conditions and the workers finally had enough and Unionized. It would revert back to the unhealthy nonsence if they were to be elimanated as I have witnessed many ridiculous whiteshirts who would turn the working man into a slave if they could. 

Strange that nearly 70% of the Canadian workforce is non unionized (its probaly higher but the only easy data was from 92) How can 70% of the workforce survive being so horribly mistreated? Imagine if unions were elimited and people has to survie what the other 70% had to survive.  How you can continue to show your face after being proven to spew such unsported GARBAGE day afeter day is beyond reason.

70% ?   So only 30% are  CAW etc. +civil servants?    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.     I would have thought  that the number was nearer 50% unionized of which most are in CUPE or one of the other public sevice unions such as teachers.

Pot calling kettle black.

[tpl]

^^^    Don't understand.   I was questioning that only 30% were unionized in Canada thought it would be many more.

[Snowman]

^^^    Don't understand.   I was questioning that only 30% were unionized in Canada thought it would be many more.

Sorry, I should have clarified that T&C was accusing Barrie of fabricating numbers then he does the same.

[barrie1]

TLC has not proven anything to me to prove I am a liar, if anything he is totally mistaken in my mind and has a real problem. To bad wether you don't like North American products or not but I have worked in this field a lot longer then you have even been thought of in this world.  I don't know the current count of the membership in the CAW but its has gone down a awful lot in the last 10 years. Even the import makers who have built factories here are paying the same wages and virtually the same health benefits as well. Their employess can Thank the CAW for that. 

[rrocket]

Thank the CAW for that. 

Riiiiiiiigggggtttt......

[barrie1]

Do you think they are giving such high wages just from the good of their little generous hearts there Rrocket because that is never gonna happen. Wow don't be so surprised because they want to keep good staff so they have to pay the going price in this trade. Your trade is not the same as you make parts for the industry and have chosen not to be in a Union Shop. There's no-body stopping you from having your shop join a union at any time. Think about it. 

[rrocket]

Your trade is not the same as you make parts for the industry and have chosen not to be in a Union Shop. There's no-body stopping you from having your shop join a union at any time. Think about it. 

So everyone that elects to pay their employees fair wages does so because they are scared??  Please.  Our skill trades here more than most any manufacturing plant would seem to be perfect for unions.  Very long hours (11 hour shifts are the norm here), weekend work, difficult manual work at times,  etc...Yet no unions ever.  Why?  Because we don't want to work in a union environment.  And our shop owners know this.  Yet they still pay us fairly. So just because someone is paid fairly, it doesn't mean it's because of the CAW or because the owners are scared.  And this isn't just my shoppe.  There are over 300 shops here and very few are unionized. 

If that was the case, there is nothing stopping every single operation of any type in Ontario from being unionized....and it just doesn't happen.

[toolatecrew]

Just some numbers
CUPE has 540,000 members
CAW is over 250,000 members
Secondary Teachers in Ont 60,000
Public Elementary teachers in 73,000
probably over 1 million in different construction unions
there is about 17,000,000 people working ( higher then I thought) http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/Labour/LFS/lfs-en.htm

I also thought it would be close to 40%

Thanks Air I admit I did only a cursory search to support my theory that by FAR most workers in Canada aren't unionized but given this better information I should revise my numbers and stanents:

Based on Airs numbers and the numbers from Stats can we get


CUPE has 540,000 members
CAW is over 250,000 members
Secondary Teachers in Ont 60,000
Public Elementary teachers in 73,000
probably over 1 million in different construction unions

Now lets be generous and assume all 3.4 million Public sector workers are unionized.

My math says this adds up to 5.3 million unionized people  . Stats can says over 17 million in the work force.

5.3 devided by 17 M =31.1% of workforce is in a Union. So my origional satament that "Strange that nearly 70% of the Canadian workforce is non unionized (its probaly higher but the only easy data was from 92) How can 70% of the workforce survive being so horribly mistreated? " Is slightly inaccruarate. I herbey revise it to say

Strange that nearly 68.8% of the Canadian workforce is non unionized  How can 68.8% of the workforce survive being so horribly mistreated?

Most people are NOT union. There is no threat of a union. The company I works for has existed for over 20 years in Canada. Never been a drive to unionize. Somehow we are not slaves.

Michelin employs 3,500 people at its three plants in Nova Scotia, making it the fourth-largest employer in the province. No union. Time after time no union.

"the average wage for Michelin workers in Nova Scotia is about a dollar less an hour than Michelin's workers in Ontario" http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2000/12/28/ns_michelin001228.html

$1 an hour is not unreasonable gap between the east and the more heavily populated province of Ontario. These workers get great benifits, free tires great wages and live in a low cost of living environment. Somehow without a union they seem to be treated much better than slaves.

[Ex-airbalancer]

But it is a union in other areas that help out the non union workers to get better pay

Non sheet metal workers will get around $30/ hour with little to no benefits ( each company is different)
Union works get $34/ hour, with total package is $47/hr

Also what makes you think NS is a lower cost of living, 
In the military you get a $600 a month to make up the cost of living between Shearwater and Trenton/Kingston
Food is more price ecept for fish
You have no cheap beer
$4. for a bag of milk here in Ont, you are at $7
From I have seen house price are not that much here then there

[initial_D]

Housing prices, insurance, ... should be cheaper in NS?

[toolatecrew]

TLC has not proven anything to me to prove I am a liar, if anything he is totally mistaken in my mind and has a real problem. To bad whether you don't like North American products or not but I have worked in this field a lot longer then you have even been thought of in this world.  I don't know the current count of the membership in the CAW but its has gone down a awful lot in the last 10 years. Even the import makers who have built factories here are paying the same wages and virtually the same health benefits as well. Their employer can Thank the CAW for that. 

Hmm not a liar?

The boys at the top should set some examples by taking much lower wages to start with if they are really serious about turning this company around. They are still far from Bankruptcy with 31 Billion on hand.

GM has $23.9 billion in cash on hand (july 9 2008) http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/07/09/business/gm.php (yes they also have lines of credit but they do not have 31 B on hand.

They also figure to sell something like slightly over 14 million cars this year or next I believe as well.

"Toyota sold 4,817,941 vehicles globally during the first six months of the year, company spokesman Hideaki Homma said Wednesday, beating GM by 277,532 vehicles. Toyota said its global sales rose 2 percent from the same period the year before, while GM's sales fell 3 percent."
4,817,941  - 277,532  = 4540409  for 1/2 a year.

How can a supposedly well informed industry person project 4.5 Million worldwide sales to 14 Million worldwide in a falling market?

They are definitely still making profit for sure on every one of them and the quality has definitely become worldclass as well.

"Ford saw them losing $1,400 per vehicle - a number that will go up when the fourth quarter's loss is tallied - while DaimlerChrysler (Charts) dropped $1100 and GM $333." July 2007 http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/26/news/companies/pluggedin_taylor_ford.fortune/index.htm

Multiple sources report GM losing money on average on vehicles sold in NA . How can an informed industry insider state they make a profit on every one??

 If the Imports were so good why don't they have the 100,00 pm warranties as well. This company is the only one that does so figure it out.

hYUNDAI cANADA 5 YEAR 100,000 km WARRANTY http://www.hyundaicanada.com/?gclid=CMDnhf-c6JUCFRTbQAodJmx8fA

Mitsubishi Canada
10 - year/160,000 km Powertrain Limited Warranty *
5 - year/100,000 km New Vehicle Limited Warranty
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.ca/10_5_5_Warranty.aspx

Time after time statements with the high and mighty conviction of someone who works in the industry and all others are know nothing morons. Time after time falsehoods, inaccuracies and unprovable assumptions.

If it was an occasional typo or calculation I could understand. But if someone professes to be "in the know" and consistently is proven wrong one must assume its intentional. Don't know about others but when someone is shown to be inaccurate most of the time I consider anything they say suspect.

[ovr50]

tlc - I happen to agree with you BUT I have given up arguing with Barrie and trying to show him where he is wrong - he is totally union-brainwashed and many of his "facts" are not facts at all, but merely his opinion (however they are presented as fact). He will never "prove" his statements by giving a link or a reference.

Barrie is entitled to his "opinions" however wrong anyone thinks they are. I believe most posters on here recognize Barrie's posts for what they are. Arguing is futile and life's too short.... Move on.

In the area of maintenance/repairs/engines/etc Barrie is very good, very knowledgible and knows his stuff. In the area of finance/labor relations/company reporting/etc. Barrie is not very knowledgible (IMO).

[Allen]

 

[toolatecrew]

But it is a union in other areas that help out the non union workers to get better pay

Non sheet metal workers will get around $30/ hour with little to no benefits ( each company is different)
Union works get $34/ hour, with total package is $47/hr

Also what makes you think NS is a lower cost of living, 
In the military you get a $600 a month to make up the cost of living between Shearwater and Trenton/Kingston
Food is more price ecept for fish
You have no cheap beer
$4. for a bag of milk here in Ont, you are at $7
From I have seen house price are not that much here then there

What makes me think NS is lower cost of living?

Well I do live here.

Province Average House Price July 2008
Vancouver, BC $575,000
Calgary, Alb $403,000
Toronto, Ont $371,000  
Ottawa, Ont $295,000
Montreal, Que $247,000
Halifax, NS $237,000
Regina, Sask $246,000
Fredericton, NB $147,000

Michiline pLants are in Areas that have cheaper housing prices.

Stats Canada says the following (I provided links becuase the data is from 2005 and I couldn't find an update)

In 2006 Average Houshold expendiures In ontario"

73,318


Nova Scotia
56,319
http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil16b.htm

My brother has lived in both towns where the palnts are locally (Bridgewater and Coldbrook/Kentville)
and his cost of living was even lower than Halifax.