Author Topic: Barrie's dream job!  (Read 20002 times)

Offline JSCC

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Barrie's dream job!
« on: September 05, 2008, 03:51:12 pm »
Barrie can be this sites top moderator!

GM Facts and Fiction: GM Tells It Like It Is.

http://www.autospies.com/news/GM-Facts-and-Fiction-GM-Tells-It-Like-It-Is-34432/

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Offline Zoo

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 12:49:49 pm »
This is actually a pretty smart move by G.M. However, (at least in the context of compacts and sub-compacts) they are behind the 8 ball in terms of fuel economy.

This is in response to this bit taken from the link:
Myth:GM vehicles are not as fuel efficient as comparable imports
Fact:A visit to the EPA fuel economy site shows that, segment for segment, GM vehicles are competitive with any vehicles in the market.

GM currently has more models with EPA highway ratings of 30 mpg or better than any other carmaker, 18 in total.

We are not resting on our success. We are working to further improve the fuel economy of every new vehicle we build. For example, we recently announced plans for a new Chevy compact car, the Cruze, which is expected to have signficantly better fuel economy than the Cobalt, which is already among the most fuel efficient vehicles in its segment.


Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2008, 02:35:36 pm »
This woudn't be a good job for Barrie. While it does give a chance to try to put a positve spin on all things GM it does require that the spin be based on proven fact, data and numbers. Even GM on its own propagtanda website wouldn't risk spewing out unprovable garbage and outright lies.

Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2008, 02:45:16 pm »
LOL @ "18 models".  It's true, but it sounds more impressive than it is...  how many of those 18 are the same car just badge-engineered?  :)

All in all, not a bad idea, though.  A company needs to respond to some of those negative myths if it wants to dispel them.  :thumbup:

Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2008, 07:00:16 pm »
LOL @ "18 models".  It's true, but it sounds more impressive than it is...  how many of those 18 are the same car just badge-engineered?  :)

All in all, not a bad idea, though.  A company needs to respond to some of those negative myths if it wants to dispel them.  :thumbup:

Yeah but if you want to dispel them you need to actually adress them.

GM can’t make money selling cars

FactLarger vehicles traditionally meant larger profits, which is why almost every carmaker –- domestic and import -– rapidly expanded production of trucks, SUVs and luxury vehicles over the past decade.

Well before the recent dive in truck sales, GM was moving to increase the profitability of its cars and crossovers.

This starts with stronger products. Recent entries like the Cadillac CTS, Chevy Malibu and Buick Enclave have won praise from the press and public. Customers are willing to pay more for them, and they are selling strongly, even in a very weak market.

Chevy’s next generation small car, the Cruze, should further strengthen GM’s presence in that important segment.

GM is also significantly reducing its cost of doing business in the U.S. and we recently announced further structural cost reductions of $5-6 billion.

GM also transitioned, over the past decade, to a global business model. This spreads development costs over a larger volume, and helps GM introduce new products like the Chevy Cruze to more markets more quickly.

Finally, although we expect the truck market to be smaller in the future, people will still need trucks. GM intends to defend its truck leadership by making sure we have the best — and most fuel-efficient — trucks available.

So where does this show profitability in cars? Sales numbers don't (as GM has proven time and time agin) = making MONEY or profit. The myth isn't GM can't sell any cars. The sell millions. But selling millions of cars and losing 2K a car isn't making money.

My favotite one is this one:

GM’s biggest problem in North America is its union contracts

FactThere is no question that the growth of imports, and of non-unionized U.S. factories owned by overseas competitors, posed a tough challenge for GM and its unions. The only realistic solution was to do what we did — negotiate agreements that narrow this gap.

The most recent GM-UAW agreement, signed in 2007, helps close fundamental competitive gaps with our import competitors, and we anticipate significant savings as we implement the key provisions of the agreement between now and 2010.

GM’s unionized North American factories compete with the best in terms of quality and productivity.

We are confident that a collaborative relationship with our unions continues to be in everyone’s best interest.

So if the Union contact ISN"T the biggest problem then what is?

I love how they say this "GM’s unionized North American factories compete with the best in terms of quality and productivity." but ignore the fact that the union wage costs and benifits in particular continue to (even with their new UWA contact (which is not morrored by CWA) still leavs a signicficant cost gap.

barrie1

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2008, 11:35:13 pm »
  Everything they claim they have done which is more then all of the imports and other brands put together proves they are not sitting on their brains like many of you who have insulted me for believing in this company. I spent over 30 years working there and still have direct contact with them on a weekly basis. All of the industry has been hurt by this recesssion and many have lost their  jobs as well but you all blame the Union which is not the reason at all. If the Imports were so good why don't they have the 100,00 klm warranties as well. This company is the only one that does so figure it out. GM has made many inovations in the automotive world  and admits when its wrong unlike some of the import brands which don't even know how to spell the word RECALL. I won't name them to be nice as we all know who they are. AS I have stated before just keep buying from  overseas as you won't have a job much longer as it will be over there somewhere while you go without and our Gov does nothing to help you out.  :) ;D
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 11:53:29 pm by barrie1 »

Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 08:11:13 am »
  Everything they claim they have done which is more then all of the imports and other brands put together proves they are not sitting on their brains like many of you who have insulted me for believing in this company. I spent over 30 years working there and still have direct contact with them on a weekly basis. All of the industry has been hurt by this recesssion and many have lost their  jobs as well but you all blame the Union which is not the reason at all. If the Imports were so good why don't they have the 100,00 klm warranties as well. This company is the only one that does so figure it out. GM has made many inovations in the automotive world  and admits when its wrong unlike some of the import brands which don't even know how to spell the word RECALL. I won't name them to be nice as we all know who they are. AS I have stated before just keep buying from  overseas as you won't have a job much longer as it will be over there somewhere while you go without and our Gov does nothing to help you out.  :) ;D
  Everything they claim they have done which is more then all of the imports and other brands put together proves they are not sitting on their brains like many of you who have insulted me for believing in this company. I spent over 30 years working there and still have direct contact with them on a weekly basis. All of the industry has been hurt by this recesssion and many have lost their  jobs as well but you all blame the Union which is not the reason at all. If the Imports were so good why don't they have the 100,00 klm warranties as well. This company is the only one that does so figure it out. GM has made many inovations in the automotive world  and admits when its wrong unlike some of the import brands which don't even know how to spell the word RECALL. I won't name them to be nice as we all know who they are. AS I have stated before just keep buying from  overseas as you won't have a job much longer as it will be over there somewhere while you go without and our Gov does nothing to help you out.  :) ;D

Why does GM have a 100,00km warranty and many imports do not. That's easy. Becvuase Imports do not NEED a 100,000km warranty to sell vehicles. GM does.  The implication that GM has better quality or has more confidence than imports becuase they offered a longer warranty is (tipaclly) a rediculous idea. GM did it to incrase the PERCEPTION of quality and to increase sales. The increased powetrain warranty is on parts that often don't fail so the cost is fairly low but make no mistale there IS a cost. Other manufacturers don't NEED to increase their cost by offering a longer warranty becuase people will buy their car without it. Even if the aditional cost of extending that warranty were only say $100 a car. Honda or Toyaota can make $100 per car more PROFIT and still sell the same amount of cars. The idea that GM is somehow "better" becuase it offers the longer warranty is crap.
This pretty well covers it http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/02/gm-warranty-could-help-perception-sales.html

A better question might beif GM is so GOOD WHY DOES GM  offer huge discounts and family pricing just to sell their cars? If their cars are as GOOD as or better than Imports and they offer cheaper pricing and longer warranties why are they losing boatloads of $ in North America (don't try to talk about international operations )


Offline Zoo

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 10:43:29 am »
A longer warranty does not necessarily mean the best product. Hyundai and Kia have had killer warranties for years. They were put in place to inspire confidence in customers who otherwise would not buy the cars due to reliability concerns.

For me a long warranty actually puts me off. It is one of those weird things I guess. When I see really strong incentives and extra warranties I wonder what is wrong.

GM is doing a lot of things right. They need to make sure the upcoming Cruze is class leading so that they can sell their cars without all this discounting. Constant discounting erodes the brand, kills resale, and depreciation is one of the things I look at when shopping cars.

While I might consider buying a used Malibu I would be very hesitant to buy a new one due to how much more it is likely to depreciate over a comparable Accord or Camry. Same goes for the excellent Saturn Aura and Astra.

GM needs to keep building better vehicles and stop with all the incentives.

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 10:54:35 am »
GM is making a step in the right direction.  There is no arguing about that.  Better styling, better quality (than before)... but not the best...... yet.  Getting there though. 

Barrie... to correct you.... Hyundai... an import.... has had a 100 000 KM warranty for quite some time now.  Acura... another import.... has an 100 000KM warranty on all major components and 80 000KM on everything else.  PLEASE, PLEASE research what you put on here to avoid unnecessary emabarrassment.

PS.  The only reason GM knows how to spell the word RECALL so well is because they've had to use it so often in the past.

Offline toolatecrew

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2008, 11:50:58 am »
GM is making a step in the right direction.  There is no arguing about that.  Better styling, better quality (than before)... but not the best...... yet.  Getting there though. 

Barrie... to correct you.... Hyundai... an import.... has had a 100 000 KM warranty for quite some time now.  Acura... another import.... has an 100 000KM warranty on all major components and 80 000KM on everything else.  PLEASE, PLEASE research what you put on here to avoid unnecessary emabarrassment.

PS.  The only reason GM knows how to spell the word RECALL so well is because they've had to use it so often in the past.

I used to think maybe it was just lack of research but to constantly spill false information sometimes grossly (like the amount of Cars GM sold last year) would indicate intentional decit to me. As I said that's why this wouldn't be a good job for Barrie. The GM spin doctors on the website need to be very careful not to post any false information when "debunking " myths. So that's why we get these very vague answers with very few numbers.

They fortunately have some consequences if they simply lie.

Offline Zoo

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2008, 12:27:35 am »
Interesting rebuttal to the G.M. site on thetruthaboutcars

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-196-fact-vs-fictio/

Offline tpl

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2008, 05:31:57 am »
the GM site states that Japan is effectively closed to non-Japanese care makers.   I would really like to have that explained in all its ( undoubtedly) complex economic,political,WTO type detail.    Does it mean that if GM wished to build a factory in Japan as they have in China, that they would not be permitted? Does it mean that Japan has quotas for non-Japanese cars?  Inquiring minds need to know.
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barrie1

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2008, 10:59:53 pm »
If the Japanese cars are so good then why do we have the most complaints in the repair section here about them. This has been a constant occurence for well over 2 years now. Look it up and try to deny that if you can. Just more of the North American car bashing crap most of you speel because you really don't have a real clue about what is really going on in the real automotive world.  Of course they don't have recalls either now do they unlike the honest North American builders who face up to the fact and do it. To me the imports are mostly but not all sickening junk which is defrauding the buying public just by being allowed to be sold here duty free. The door is closed to virtually all North American manufacturers of all goods in Japan and a lot of korea as well. At least China is open to accept our trade goods unlike Japan.  I think a lot of you should learn some more yourselves before you accuse me or anyone else or lack of knowledge as you are spreading it pretty thick yourselves.  :(
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 11:01:34 pm by barrie1 »

Offline rrocket

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2008, 11:04:22 pm »
See where GM is?  (Look way down near the bottom!!)   :rofl2:

How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline rrocket

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2008, 11:14:34 pm »
If the Japanese cars are so good then why do we have the most complaints in the repair section here about them. This has been a constant occurence for well over 2 years now. Look it up and try to deny that if you can. Just more of the North American car bashing crap most of you speel because you really don't have a real clue about what is really going on in the real automotive world.  Of course they don't have recalls either now do they unlike the honest North American builders who face up to the fact and do it. To me the imports are mostly but not all sickening junk which is defrauding the buying public just by being allowed to be sold here duty free. The door is closed to virtually all North American manufacturers of all goods in Japan and a lot of korea as well. At least China is open to accept our trade goods unlike Japan.  I think a lot of you should learn some more yourselves before you accuse me or anyone else or lack of knowledge as you are spreading it pretty thick yourselves.  :(

Oh here we go again with Barrie making $hit up again...LOL.  Honda and Toyota's most popular best selling models are made in North America...in Canada even Barrie!   And we've already de-bunked that myth about American good being sold in Japan, GM cars are priced competitively and taxed the same as other foreign makes (BMW, Mercedes, etc..)  Barrie needs to stop drinking the CAW-spiked Kool Aid....LOL

Offline Ice

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2008, 11:30:24 pm »
If the Japanese cars are so good then why do we have the most complaints in the repair section here about them. This has been a constant occurence for well over 2 years now. Look it up and try to deny that if you can. Just more of the North American car bashing crap most of you speel because you really don't have a real clue about what is really going on in the real automotive world.  Of course they don't have recalls either now do they unlike the honest North American builders who face up to the fact and do it. To me the imports are mostly but not all sickening junk which is defrauding the buying public just by being allowed to be sold here duty free. The door is closed to virtually all North American manufacturers of all goods in Japan and a lot of korea as well. At least China is open to accept our trade goods unlike Japan.  I think a lot of you should learn some more yourselves before you accuse me or anyone else or lack of knowledge as you are spreading it pretty thick yourselves.  :(
And yet the Japanese cars tend to come out on top in the various different quality indicators available in the industry.  Consumer Reports, J.D. Power and Associates, etc.  Sure there are American cars that get up there but not consistently.  These are based on thousands of samples.  How does that compare to the forum here and someone having a quick look at it?

The import/export policies and politics really don't factor into an argument about reliability or quality.

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2008, 11:37:31 pm »
If the Japanese cars are so good then why do we have the most complaints in the repair section here about them. ...  :(

I think its because this site attracts mostly "import" owners, not "domestic" owners.  But that line is essentially non-existent anymore with the global building of cars.  My Sienna is a NA product, not Japanese.  Who knows about the Pathfinder replacement   ;)
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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2008, 12:24:43 am »
Even if you screen out real turkeys like the minivans, and say they are 'Old GM', the products of the 'New GM' have all been troublesome. Very different than the case with Ford or Hyundai.

The Cobalt, the new Vue, the CTS, the HHR, the Aura, all full of problems. Going by CR, True Delta, even Edmunds long term vehicles. Their long term Aura is a running joke.

Pickups were an exception, likely because GM carried over the drivetrains.

Doesn't bode well for the early buyers of vehicles GM is counting on like the Cruze, Volt, etc.

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2008, 12:25:42 am »
Hey Barrie.... where do you think Japan gets it's steel from to manufacture their 'crap' as you call them... Yes...... a good portion of it comes from..... North America.  

Get your facts straight and stop embarassing yourself.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Barrie's dream job!
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2008, 12:31:27 am »
Hey Barrie.... where do you think Japan gets it's steel from to manufacture their 'crap' as you call them... Yes...... a good portion of it comes from..... North America.  

Get your facts straight and stop embarassing yourself.

Facts for Barrie have never mattered in the past...just what the CAW newsletters say... ;D