Topic: Production Chevy Volt?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

^^^Oh...did Barrie hijack your account??  Are we going to where you think GM makes a more reliable small car than Honda?

I'll see your Honda trannies and raise you ALL GM 3.4L engines in ALL cars and vans with the headgasket issues....

Jeeze, we know, you got a bad car, get over it already...

[rrocket]

Not me....MILLION upon MILLIONS.  EVERY 3.4L GM has sold to be exact with that old rubber intake gasket/Dextron coolant combo. 9 years of vehicles worth. Even settled a class action lawsuit over it.

Like I said originally...if GM could build a small car Honda clone as reliably as Honda and make money on it, it would be the wisest thing they've ever done.....

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Not me....MILLION upon MILLIONS.  EVERY 3.4L GM has sold to be exact with that old rubber intake gasket/Dextron coolant combo. 9 years of vehicles worth. Even settled a class action lawsuit over it.

Like I said originally...if GM could build a small car Honda clone as reliably as Honda and make money on it, it would be the wisest thing they've ever done.....

Millions and millions?

The last time GM used the engine was 2005 and the last few years had a revised gasket. meh.
What about the 22RE Toyota motor that had head gasket problems for years with blowing out between the 2nd and 3rd cylinders. They used that motor a lot longer than GM used the 3.4.

That's also why I don't blindly buy by brand. I do due diligence and avoid problem vehicles no matter the manufacturer.

[rrocket]

Uh yea...MILLIONS.  This was a problem on EVERY 3.4L GM sold from 1999-2004 in North America.  That's millions.   Here's the list in case you don't think it's millions.

1995-1997 Buick Riviera
1995-1998/2000-2003 Buick LeSabre
2000-2003 Buick Century
2002-2003 Buick Rendezvous
1996/1998-2001 Chevrolet Lumina
1997-2003 Chevrolet Venture
1999-2003 Chevrolet Malibu
1995-1998 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
1996-2003 Oldsmobile Silhouette
1999 Oldsmobile Cutlass
1999-2003 Oldsmobile Alero
1997-1998/2000-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
1996-1999 Pontiac Trans Sport
1999-2003 Pontiac Grand Am
1999-2003 Pontiac Montana
2001-2003 Pontiac Aztec
1995-2004 Buick Park Avenue
1996-2004 Buick Regal
1997-2004 Buick LeSabre
1998-2004 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2000-2004 Chevrolet Impala
1995-1999 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight
1998-1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue
1995-2004 Pontiac Bonneville
1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix with 3.8L V6 Engine

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Uh yea...MILLIONS.  This was a problem on EVERY 3.4L GM sold from 1999-2004 in North America.  That's millions.   Here's the list in case you don't think it's millions.

1995-1997 Buick Riviera
1995-1998/2000-2003 Buick LeSabre
2000-2003 Buick Century
2002-2003 Buick Rendezvous
1996/1998-2001 Chevrolet Lumina
1997-2003 Chevrolet Venture
1999-2003 Chevrolet Malibu
1995-1998 Oldsmobile Ninety Eight
1996-2003 Oldsmobile Silhouette
1999 Oldsmobile Cutlass
1999-2003 Oldsmobile Alero
1997-1998/2000-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
1996-1999 Pontiac Trans Sport
1999-2003 Pontiac Grand Am
1999-2003 Pontiac Montana
2001-2003 Pontiac Aztec
1995-2004 Buick Park Avenue
1996-2004 Buick Regal
1997-2004 Buick LeSabre
1998-2004 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2000-2004 Chevrolet Impala
1995-1999 Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight
1998-1999 Oldsmobile Intrigue
1995-2004 Pontiac Bonneville
1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix with 3.8L V6 Engine

Well Dad had a few cars on your list and didn't have any issues including an Alero.
Got a link to the number of actual cars involved? Like the 800k actual, real-life Tacomas that Toyota bought back?

[rrocket]

Oh....I dunno.  The class action was settled for $150 million, and that figure pays for 50 percent of the repairs. The problem affects millions of vehicles (see list)...but how many people actually got into the class action lawsuit I have no idea...

Since it was settled in a court case and not a recall (as it should have been) I don't know if we have access to those numbers??

[Cortina]

Yikes. I only ment the design.    Even the New and up coming KIA Forte Looks like the Civic.

[rrocket]

It's OK.  I don't mind these brief detours and lively discussions...I don't think anyone else does either.  No worries...

[Ice]

Its just a matter of aerodynamics and they wanted to get as good a drag coefficient as possible so...ultimately its going to look a bit like the other low drag designs out there.  Especially the Civic...although I think the Volt seems to have a much more classy appeal to it...better be for the estimated pricing being more than double a Civic.

Still...if it paves the way to a whole new generation.  That'd be great! 

[EV Dan]

Any EV by itself (doesnt really apply to this "extender") should be cheaper to make coz the drive train is fairly simpler and more straightforward - no clutch, no gearbox.. Now since they (not GM) already planning to make Li-ion batts in US, the price should come down quick so its now about time we've thought of where we'd get more coal to charge these things 

[toolatecrew]

I for one have serious doubts about the announced plans to relase this before end of 2010.

They can't aford to have it come out and have multiple teething problems or saftey recalls. It will kill it.If it comes out and has half the range they promise or the batter packs fail or something the press will eat them alive. So it will require many things to be sucessfully launched and sold:
1. Big reaources in development (read $)
2. Solid supply of parts barreries that can meet the 10 K per year sales projections
3. Huge government tax breaks subsidies to enable them to put it out the door and into people's hands at the projected (around 30K) price point.

Even if it is sucessfully launched 10,000 Volt sales is such a tiny drop in the profit bucket next to 9 billion in losses last 1/4 that it hardley matters in the short term. I understand its an image thing short term but that's why I think they will end up delaying. They have far more pressing concerns like getting the Cruze launched and profitable (in the high volume subcompact market) .

Just wait until Volt gets close to launch for the Union to threaten stikes and delays as they see an opportunity for a high profile opportunity.

[My Old Buick]

Call me naive, but i would rather buy a GM ( or any other Big 3) manufacturer's vehicle if the product is built in North America. Although I'm in sales and not part of a union I would, and do put up with workers striking to earn more benefits or money for their family. The auto industry is a here today gone tomorrow industry, people need to get what they can get while they can. We all go to work to pay our bills and have some spending cash. Manufacturing is a vital part of the North American Economy, (keeps sales guys like me in business) and the auto industry creates thousands of jobs. Yes imports have some plants here in North America, but at the end of the day the money ends up off shore, I don't agree with it, but it is what it is.

My daily driver is a Ford with a v8, I fill up with a smile as I couldn't drive a Yaris, Civic, or any other lil' compact car. To those that enjoy imports, great it's your choice. I'm also glad their are still many along with myself, that will support to the big 3  through these tough times and wish them the best in the future. 

[Mitlov]

It's OK.  I don't mind these brief detours and lively discussions...I don't think anyone else does either.  No worries...

Actually, my vacation from CTC was prompted because it's essentially impossible for a discussion to hit 30 posts without degenerating into a Toyota-versus-GM "your poop stinks worse than mine" match.  Seriously, we all get it.  You and Artic loooooove Toyota and hate Ford and GM.  Certain other members are the exact opposite.  The rest of us are just plain tired of hearing it...

[rrocket]

Well I hope you had a good vacation.  If you need a time-out, so be it. (Shrugs).

I rather like what GM and Ford have in the pipes.  It's just their old stuff...not so much.

However, if it's just too much to actually skim over posts (as I sometimes do depending on the topic, etc..) and filter out what's not important, more vacations or the "ignore" button work well....

[Mitlov]

Well I hope you had a good vacation.  If you need a time-out, so be it. (Shrugs).

I rather like what GM and Ford have in the pipes.  It's just their old stuff...not so much.

Is that what you meant when you said:

What do you expect?  Ford and GM are (mostly) lost in North America....

Because that's not what I get out of comments like that...

However, if it's just too much to actually skim over posts (as I sometimes do depending on the topic, etc..) and filter out what's not important, more vacations or the "ignore" button work well....

The problem is not just that it clutters up a thread (which could be easily solved by just skipping the posts and reading on).  The problem is that it hijacks a thread and diverts it off-topic so that the main topic of the thread is lost entirely.  Once a thread turns into a GM-versus-Toyota s***-storm, the people who were talking about the original post often abandon the thread entirely.

[rrocket]

What do you expect?  Ford and GM are (mostly) lost in North America....

Well maybe during your self-imposed vacation, you've missed some things I've said...or do you already have me on "ignore"?  No matter.......

Ford is lost because they have some REALLY nice cars in Euroland with nice powertrains that we don't get here because of stupid excuses/oversights. It's like NA gets the cars that aren't fit for production in Europe.  Hopefully the new Fiesta will help Ford turn the page here and we might get some of those good cars here.   

As you know, GM is lost in a financial sense in NA.  I can explain why, but I'm sure I don't need to go into details for you.  Their cars finally appear to be headed the right direction, and they finally seem to be able to make a nice interior.  Hopefully their financial crisis get fixed and they can keep selling cars here...and make a profit.

I don't think I'm lying when I say they are mostly lost here...or perhaps, maybe just for your anal self I should have said "somewhat" lost instead of "mostly" lost.  Let me know how I can clear this up for you....I don't want you to go AWOL again just because of this...