Topic: CD Article: 2009 Pontiac Vibe AWD

[Autos_Editor]

Test Drive:


Redesigned for 2009, the Pontiac Vibe is still roomy and has awesome cargo capacity, says Assistant Editor Jil McIntosh, but it's not as edgy or as much fun to drive as the old one, she says.

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Read the article | View the photos | All the Test Drives

[Honda Owner]

GM should sell ton of this vehicle. Too bad that owners will have to buy them from GM dealers, though.

[RacerStu]

According to the GM website, the base price of the Vibe is $15,995, not the $21,000 stated in the article. Also I don't believe the 2.4L engine was ever offered in the previous series Vibe, it was the performance 1.8L engine which was discontinued in 2006.

[Frontier1]

The 2 engines offered in the previous Vibe were the:   1.8 L 1ZZ-FE I4 126 hp and 1.8 L 2ZZ-GE I4 164 hp.  It's not the first time I see mistakes like that in write ups or Tv shows.  The Nissan Rogue has a 2.8 engine, did you know that?  That's what a recent TV show says!!

[Thinking Out Loud]

What could make or break the success of this car will be the financing options.

If Toyota continues to carry leased Matrixs (Matracees?) and GM only option is cash n' carry financing, could be a HUGE issue. 

With essentially identical vehicles with modest packaging/trim differences it should be an excellent test as to GM's future without having leasing even at 'reasonable' rates relative to Toyota.

Anybody have the sales numbers for '07 on these two vehicles?

[banfield]

Thanks for including in the article a reference to people who prefer manual windows for their lower maintenance cost.  I have wind-ups in my '06 Caravan for that reason.  In my wife's Honda Accord, we paid $350 to have one power window repaired.

[Honda Owner]

According to the GM website, the base price of the Vibe is $15,995, not the $21,000 stated in the article.

That is indeed the base price but press cars are almost always loaded to the gills. This is because the car makers make a much higher profit on loaded units than they do on strippers.

As for GM not leasing, it is a sign that they are desperate for cash. They would much rather have you borrow from your bank than finance themselves. They took a huge hit in lease residuals on their trucks and SUVs.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Lease rate of 19.75%.

But, to be fair, they offer reasonable MSRPs and 0% financing for up to 60 months. If you can't afford a car over 60 months, you really can't afford it.

The prevalence of  leasing allowed manufacturers to bloat MSRPs over the years in Canada. Now that bubble has burst, and prices should come down to compensate, or sales will really dive.

I don't really see this car as being better than the previous Vibe, improved power train not withstanding.

[Honda Owner]

But, to be fair, they offer reasonable MSRPs and 0% financing for up to 60 months. If you can't afford a car over 60 months, you really can't afford it

True, but 0% financing at GM really isn't 0%. Walk in with cash and see what a deal you can get. Bank financing is not that high anyway, based on historical levels. Anybody with home equity could easily finance their car at bank prime, around 4.75%. Compare the total cost of borrowing vs the cash discount.  I am sure they are very similar.

[safristi]

quote
"make a much higher profit on loaded units than they do on strippers."


   i tho't strippers made a much higher profit on LoadedUNITS...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

But, to be fair, they offer reasonable MSRPs and 0% financing for up to 60 months. If you can't afford a car over 60 months, you really can't afford it

True, but 0% financing at GM really isn't 0%. Walk in with cash and see what a deal you can get. Bank financing is not that high anyway, based on historical levels. Anybody with home equity could easily finance their car at bank prime, around 4.75%. Compare the total cost of borrowing vs the cash discount.  I am sure they are very similar.

How many people buy cars with cash? I'd bet it's in the single digits, percentage wise. Most fixed rate mortgages are in the 6.5 to 7.25% range. Equity based lines of credit are in the 5.5 to 6.5% range at best. Using an equity based line of credit to finance a car is a staggeringly bad idea in any event. Ask the folks to the south what happens when you use your house as a piggy bank.

If a car is offered at msrp at 0% financing then it really is a subsidized loan. Occasionally you might get cash back and 0% financing , but that would be the exception not the rule. For people buying based on payments 0% deals are an appetizing hook.

[levistar]

Just asking because I don't,but why is it bad to buy a car with your line of credit? I have heard this before,but it has never been explaned to me very well.

[Thinking Out Loud]

The primary problem with a line of credit (borrowing your own money) is that you can limit/cut your payments down to just the interest due. 

If you have problems keeping yourself to a budget, the flexibility of having that option means you never pay down the principle of the loan on a depreciating asset for the 'benefit' of effectively very little in monthly payments.   

If you DON'T have problems keeping yourself to a budget, the flexibility of having that option is a non-issue.   
 

[PJungnitsch]

I really find this Vibe ugly compared to the previous version, I was checking them out on the dealer lot last night, and the front end was almost exactly the same as that on the Pontiac Montana. Throw in a bulbous, awkward body overhanging the wheels and it is not exactly a jump forward in styling.

Should have hired the Australian designers of the G8 to give a hand.

[Honda Owner]

Equity based lines of credit are in the 5.5 to 6.5% range at best. Using an equity based line of credit to finance a car is a staggeringly bad idea in any event.

I disagree. First, my line of credit is at 4.75% because I have a high credit score and tons of equity in my home. Secondly it makes financial sense. Debt is debt, it doesn't matter where it is. If you finance your vehicle with your line of credit you save all kinds of fees like the registry of a chattel mortgage. You do, however, have to have the discipline not to overspend. Chances are that if you have a history of spending more than you make the bank won't extend the line to you anyway.

Ask the folks to the south what happens when you use your house as a piggy bank.

Banks in Canada are notoriously good at collecting what is owed them. They are not going to front you anywhere near 100% of the equity in your home. I have 50% and I darned well will never use it. They way to get a high credit score, by the way, is to have a large amount of equity and available credit.

[tpl]

Cash is King.   We bought the two current cars with cash.  Its a great feeling compared to the 30 previous years with assorted financing.  Maybe the next time we'll try real cash... a thick wad of $100 bills rather than just a cheque/draft

[safristi]

...... drove by yer place the other day Tpl.....nice landscaping...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Let’s say we buy two $30,000 cars, one using msrp and 0% financing, and one on line of credit and $3000 discount.

Purchase price: $30,000
Down payment: $2000
Cash discount: $3000
Term: 60 month
Interest: 4.75%
Total financed: $28,510
Total interest: $3576
HST (13%): $3510

Monthly payment: $535

Purchase price: $30,000
Down payment: $2000
Cash discount: $0
Term: 60 month
Interest: 0%
Total financed: $31900
Total interest: $0
HST (13%): $3900

Monthly payment: $532

Even with your optimistic interest rates, you’re no better off. In the event that illness or job loss prevents you from making your payment, in one instance they take your car, the other, well things get ugly real quick.

[Justin Boulay]

I’d just like to point out one bit of info that was kind of left out in the article.

 

Unlike the base Vibe, which offers both traction and stability control for 15995$, you have to buy at least a matrix XR with option group B for 21190$ to get those lifesaving devices.

 

As a father, I don’t get the point of Toyota, and I think more people should know that gm sells a safer version of the matrix for less $$$.

 

Btw, I don’t work for gm and I’m the owner of a Toyota Avalon 2003, with ESC and Traction control. IMO, those ‘options’, paired with snow tires, are a must in winter.

 

Thanks for your time, and please spread the message…Stability control is less glamorous than leather seats, but much more useful.

 

Justin Boulay

Granby, Québec.

[Leviathan]

Purchase price: $30,000
Down payment: $2000
Cash discount: $0
Term: 60 month
Interest: 0%
Total financed: $31900
Total interest: $0
HST (13%): $3900

Monthly payment: $532

About right except who would put $2000 down when the interest rate is 0%?