Topic: Who goes bankrupt first?

[mmret]

GM defaulting would actually be bit of an economic catastrophe...think of how many pension plans etc. hold GM debt?

Maybe the Fed can bail them out. Or Toyota? Maybe CIC?

[toolatecrew]

Sorry Ovr when I read that someone made 21.5 Billion and then lost 15 billion it usually leaves them with around 6.5 billion profit in the same year. THe US to be losing that much money is very sad to begin with. How can you sell around 9 million vehicles world wide and not make money? Not charging enough perhaps or too much greed on the top end.  The worst mistakes they make are closing their best factories and not admitting their errors. They are building some extremely great products right now but buyers like you would rather support other Countries instead. When is the last time you bought a GM product? 

9 million vehicles? What happened to 14 million? I guess that's what happens when you just make up out of thin air.

YOU SAID IT:

The boys at the top should set some examples by taking much lowere wages to start with if they are really serious about turning this company around. They are still far from Bankrupcy with 31 Billion on hand. They also figure to sell something like slightly over 14 million cars this year or next I believe as well. They are definitely still making profit for sure on every one of them and the quality has defintely beome worldclass as well. The only place they have been losing money is in the US as they have made money just about everywhere else they do business. 

Just go on making stuff up. Everyone else can read the truth and see:

GM Has $15.5 Billion Loss on U.S. Sales Drop, Leases (Update4)

By Greg Bensinger and Jeff Green

 Aug. 1 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. reported a second-quarter loss of $15.5 billion, the third biggest in its 100-year history, because of plunging U.S. sales and the declining value of truck leases. The shares fell as much as 11 percent.

The deficit of $27.33 a share compares with a profit of $891 million, or $1.56, a year earlier. Excluding costs GM considers one-time, the per-share loss was 4 times bigger than analysts projected. Labor strikes contributed to a $9.9 billion drop in North American revenue, and sales worldwide tumbled 18 percent to $38.2 billion.

The results step up pressure on Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner, 55, to show he can revive the largest U.S. automaker. Wagoner, in his ninth year as CEO, has posted $69.8 billion in losses since 2004 and is trying to raise as much as $17 billion in cash while speeding the development of fuel-saving cars to replace the sport-utility vehicles being shunned by U.S. buyers.

``They really need those external fund-raising measures to get through to 2010,'' said Brian Johnson, a Chicago-based Lehman Brothers analyst, in a Bloomberg Television interview. ``We cannot count on an economic rebound.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=agMEuJ_r_yxA&refer=worldwide

[ovr50]

When is the last time you bought a GM product? 

Since you ask the question, I will answer it as it seems (?? ) that you are "implying" that I am not supporting the NA economy (your words, not mine).

The answer is that in the last 8 years since 2000, I have bought 1 GM, and 2 Fords - both US built in UAW shops. Most recently I bought in August 2006, only 2 years ago, a new Ford Mustang GT/CS built in the US. I think I have supported the UAW and their claim "to patriotic and buy NA". Have you?

Additionally, in the 56 or so cars I have owned, 9 of them were GMs, another 17 were Fords and Chryslers, all UAW/CAW built. And, I can provide a list of them to support my statement.

So, now I ask you the same question - "when is the last time YOU BOUGHT a GM product?".

Given your history on here going back almost as long as time on here, I don't think you have bought a GM product (other than maybe parts), nor any other UAW-built product recently. I could be wrong, and will admit my mistake if proven wrong (contrary to you who has never admitted being wrong on here ever).

So, YOU put your money where your mouth is....................

[ovr50]

GM defaulting would actually be bit of an economic catastrophe...think of how many pension plans etc. hold GM debt?

I agree, it would be a financial nightmare, and I do not, in any way, want to see GM or any of the US-based makers go into bankruptcy. There are enough problems in the US economy these days without adding a car maker going broke.

But, it could happen.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Maybe they have a secret workshop where they build RELIABLE product for their employees like Barrie1   .   However, with their new product, it seems like GM may have a turnaround coming down the pipe.

Regardless of the motivation - you get what you pay for in most things in life.  

You want a $5.00 part and are prepared to pay $2.50 to a supplier that likely didn't understand the benefits of diversification of either product lines or suppliers and is overly dependant on a singe client (like GM), you will get a $2.00 part plus 'profit' to the manufacturer.  

The other $2.50 in cost that disappeared is what is called 'QUALITY'.

[initial_D]

Sorry Ovr when I read that someone made 21.5 Billion and then lost 15 billion it usually leaves them with around 6.5 billion profit in the same year. THe US to be losing that much money is very sad to begin with. How can you sell around 9 million vehicles world wide and not make money? Not charging enough perhaps or too much greed on the top end.  The worst mistakes they make are closing their best factories and not admitting their errors. They are building some extremely great products right now but buyers like you would rather support other Countries instead. When is the last time you bought a GM product? 

21.5B in REVENUE, as in sales, not PROFIT.

[ovr50]

The domestic "Big 3" are not the only ones impacted by the terrible sales conditions in the US as the attached link to news for BMW shows:

http://www.canadiandriver.com/thenews/2008/08/04/bmw-to-reduce-production-increase-prices.htm

However, makers such as BMW have vehicles that many consumers actually desire, as opposed to much of the "Big 3" production of trucks, SUVs, too-large crossovers, and few small cars.

The global auto industry has a tough 18-24 months ahead of it.

Actually, I think the better term for the domestics going forward, would be the "Little 3".....

[ArticSteve]

Actually the term "Big 3" has already changed to the "Detroit 3".  Within a year it will be the "Detroit 2".

[safristi]

Why don't WE buy them UP onna cheap wif our Phat Dollars......and Make Buzz Hargrove WASH em ALL ta earn his pensione.....,,,,,U can Kall me Saf...U can call me Saffy..U can call me Safristi...BUT ya doesn't have ta call me Smart,,,,,,,,,

[mmret]

GM defaulting would actually be bit of an economic catastrophe...think of how many pension plans etc. hold GM debt?

I agree, it would be a financial nightmare, and I do not, in any way, want to see GM or any of the US-based makers go into bankruptcy. There are enough problems in the US economy these days without adding a car maker going broke.

But, it could happen.

Weirdly, at least in CDS land (I am quoting from memory so I could be wrong), GM is the most likely to default, then Ford, then finally Chrysler. Not sure what the thinking is but I would have thought that if any of the three, Uncle Sam would be most likely to bail out GM.

[ovr50]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080806/AUTO01/808060356/1148

Toyota not immune to slumping US auto sales. Expects profit to be off 27% from last year's $15Billion.

[barrie1]

I have bought 2 GM vehicles in the last 3 years altho not new ones as thats not my habit. I don't like taking the depreciation on them at all. I have purchased 14-18 new ones since 1976 and all were GM products. I have had some Chrysler and Ford products in between as well but were all used the same as many GM vehicles I have owned. I have even owned a Stubaker as well as Jags, Morris Minors,MG's but those we put small block Chevies into . One import from Japan which did not work out very well at all. Yes GM will turn it self around as it has always done in the past because of the much improved quality they are producing. I read a lot of world news and see where the profits are being generated from for them and they are not doing all as bad as anybody thinks. They will be around for years. PS within my immediate family we bought a new car yesterday but not from GM. I haven't seen it yet but my eldest daughter and husband now drive a C300 Mercedes 4-omatic. I'll probably see it to-morrow night when I visit their home to pickup my grandson for cruise night.  I have owned a lot more vehicles then 56 as well Ovr starting in the early 50's so i have seen just about everything on the marketplace wether its junk or good product. I also have worked in the trade full-time and parttime for well over 50 years and still maintain a family full of vehicles of all makes. Its extremely rare for any of my or my childrens vehicles to ever see a actual garage for any type of repairs as we do it ourselves. You can continue to attack me all you want Ovr but I have thick skin and don't go sulking off when I get mad like you have done in the past. If attacking me gives you Happiness go ahead as it dosen't bother me t all as I am here to help anyone who has a problem with their vehicle if i can but its obvous you are not. 

[ovr50]

No one, including me, would attack you if you posted accurate and correct information. But you don't do that; and you don't prove anything that you post, which leaves you open to attack. If the things you say are accurate, it should not be hard to prove them with a link or reference to your sources.

You will find that if you post accurate information, other posters will build on it with you and develop the thread further. If you post BS, which often happens as you are defending your beloved GM, you will get called.

Attacking your posts doesn't make me happy or unhappy, you have nothing to do with my level of happiness. I attack your posts when they are blatantly false; and you make it so easy.

Wake up, Barrie. 

[ArticSteve]

I have bought 2 GM vehicles in the last 3 years altho not new ones as thats not my habit. I don't like taking the depreciation on them at all.

I have purchased 14-18 new ones since 1976 and all were GM products

Those are very contradictory statements, "as well" 

 

[barrie1]

Steve you wouldn't know a GM product if you seen one to start with. The last 2 cars I have purchased are a Saturn and a Caddie Fleetwood. I also own a Seville Elagante which I bought almost new in 84. It sits in the shop right now until I do the body work I wish have done on it. On yes then theirs my truck which a no of folks on here have seen and some have ridden in it as well. I mentioned both of those 2 purchases whn they occured on here Steve so sharpen up your memory before you start calling people liars. The majority of cars I have purchased new have been for family members including a new P/U truck in BC in 1996. That was from a dealership for my yougest daughter who lived in Port Coquitland at the time. A new Jet Black Sonoma with the 5spd tranny and 4.3 which was chipped up. Show us some pics of your trailor shop Steve or whatever you call it as its certainly not a carlot or is it?  Its obvious  that you have never been in a postion to buy family cars so you have no idea about it at all Steve. I can still buy 4 new vehicles a year if I wish at virtually dealer cost as long as I keep them in my name 6 months. 

[ArticSteve]

The last 2 cars I have purchased are a Saturn and a Caddie Fleetwood. I also own a Seville Elagante which I bought almost new in 84.

That's the point ppl here are making; that you haven't bought a new GM in this or the last CENTURY.  Buying a 12 year old Fleetwood or a used beater Saturn doesn't really add to GM's bottom line.

I can still buy 4 new vehicles a year if I wish at virtually dealer cost as long as I keep them in my name 6 months.

Well that's a load of BS "as well".  Why would anyone, even a family member, give you their cash to buy a car that must be put into your name.  Then after 6 months they gotta pay an additional 8% PST to transfer the vehicle into their name.  In addition, they forgo GM's ZERO % financing that GM puts on virtually all vehicles.  Not to mention the insurance and licensing hassle.

You can do better than that one. 

[toolatecrew]

Steve you wouldn't know a GM product if you seen one to start with. The last 2 cars I have purchased are a Saturn and a Caddie Fleetwood. I also own a Seville Elagante which I bought almost new in 84. It sits in the shop right now until I do the body work I wish have done on it. On yes then theirs my truck which a no of folks on here have seen and some have ridden in it as well. I mentioned both of those 2 purchases whn they occured on here Steve so sharpen up your memory before you start calling people liars. The majority of cars I have purchased new have been for family members including a new P/U truck in BC in 1996. That was from a dealership for my yougest daughter who lived in Port Coquitland at the time. A new Jet Black Sonoma with the 5spd tranny and 4.3 which was chipped up. Show us some pics of your trailor shop Steve or whatever you call it as its certainly not a carlot or is it?  Its obvious  that you have never been in a postion to buy family cars so you have no idea about it at all Steve. I can still buy 4 new vehicles a year if I wish at virtually dealer cost as long as I keep them in my name 6 months. 

Why aren't you supporting the Canadian economy and CAW workers by buying new made in Canada GM vehicles? You can get them inexpensivley at your own admission.

A case of do as I say not as I do I guess. You rave on and on about how people should buy Canadioan made products to support Canadian manufacturing. You drone on and on about GM cutting jobs. Hardley a day goes by when we hear that GM builds great high quality NEW cars.

Yet you don't buy them. You could buy them. You have more ability to buy a nice new high quality GM car which is according to you such a steallar deal at a good price but yet you don't buy themn. If everyone followed your example and bought used domestic cars how would that help support the Canadian economy?

When was the last time you biugh a NEW CAW made GM vechicle for yourself?

[initial_D]

LIKE NEW ... shoulda be a used car salesman. 

[TopGun]

I don't like taking the depreciation on them at all.

Depreciation is a large reason people are scared off by domestic products in general...it is a large factor in the VALUE equation.

[Leviathan]

Didn't scare me off the Chevy Beretta I had for more than 10 years and didn't scare me off the Tribute that I also intend to keep for ~10 years.