Topic: A GM-Ford Marriage

[ArticSteve]

If "if" and "buts" were sugar and nuts ,we'd all have a merry Christmas.

   That's a good one.

The only tragedy in this current domestic melt down is the loss of revenue from the Ontario job losses.

The % increases or decreases are the important factors.

Toyota said it sold 22,428 Toyota and Lexus cars and trucks in June, up 8.8 per cent from June 2007

and all at a profit.

GM sales fell 23.8 per cent in June, the company said Wednesday. Truck sales were down 35 per cent, and car sales by almost 12 per cent.

The second biggest decline was at Ford Canada, which saw sales fall by 13.7 per cent to 21,959 vehicles, down from 25,439 in June last year

Chrysler Canada said it sold 22,194 vehicles during the month, up one per cent over June 2007.

But did any of those domestic units sold make a profit    I think not.

[Mitlov]

Only someone with a stake in one particular car company takes pleasure in watching other companies have hard time.  From a consumer perspective, the more competition the better, and so you never want to see anybody in deep trouble.  I find it disingenuous that Steve repeatedly denies any connection with Toyota, and yet takes every opportunity possible to relish in the current financial struggles of the Detroit Three.  That's simply not the behavior of someone who has no stake in Toyota.

Anyway, I thought this thread was about GM and Ford's turnaround plans, not how Toyota is cooler than Jesus...

[drederick]

If "if" and "buts" were sugar and nuts ,we'd all have a merry Christmas.

   That's a good one.

The only tragedy in this current domestic melt down is the loss of revenue from the Ontario job losses.

The % increases or decreases are the important factors.

Toyota said it sold 22,428 Toyota and Lexus cars and trucks in June, up 8.8 per cent from June 2007

and all at a profit.

GM sales fell 23.8 per cent in June, the company said Wednesday. Truck sales were down 35 per cent, and car sales by almost 12 per cent.

The second biggest decline was at Ford Canada, which saw sales fall by 13.7 per cent to 21,959 vehicles, down from 25,439 in June last year

Chrysler Canada said it sold 22,194 vehicles during the month, up one per cent over June 2007.

But did any of those domestic units sold make a profit    I think not.

But did any of those domestic units sold make a profit    I think not.

I have yet to see a 'thought' from you that you can back up. Pathetic. Come on - prove what you think. ha ha ha you can't!

wrong AGAIN!

[ArticSteve]

Anyway, I thought this thread was about GM and Ford's turnaround plans

I don't think either company has a turnaround plan that has not been completely sideswiped by the oil and asset backed paper crisis.

 Steve repeatedly denies any connection with Toyota

Can't say I have, but the reality is the reality in that the domestics produced such crap for so long they handed the market to the Japanese and the Germans on a silver platter.    

[Mitlov]

Steve repeatedly denies any connection with Toyota

Can't say I have

Thank you.  So you are ready to publicly admit that you have some sort of stake in Toyota?  Care to give the details?  Family member has a dealership, you work at a dealership, you own stock in the company?

I'm not faulting you for it.  Indeed, it would add a rational context to your glee at every report of Detroit Three financial crises.  Like I said...rational consumers like more competition, but people with ties to Company X would want Company Y to tank.  Nothing wrong with that, it's just rational self-interest.  For even the most rabid Toyota fan who is merely a consumer, though, the demise of the Big Three is a bad thing because less competition means Toyota can rest on its laurels more while remaining profitable, which means that future Toyotas may not live up to the consumer's expectations.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Steve repeatedly denies any connection with Toyota

Can't say I have

Thank you.  So you are ready to publicly admit that you have some sort of stake in Toyota?  Care to give the details?  Family member has a dealership, you work at a dealership, you own stock in the company?

I'm not faulting you for it. 

Do tell, I may even want to buy one if I can get a good enough discount

[safristi]

"can't say i have"..............does that not mean NO ...or in lawyerspeak it must mean YES.... ..."have U driven a FERRARI Saf....reply CAN'T SAY I HAVE..i.e NO NON NIET i have NOT driven a Ferrarri...OK maybe once in F1 @ MONACO...

[Zoo]

Steve repeatedly denies any connection with Toyota

Can't say I have

Thank you.  So you are ready to publicly admit that you have some sort of stake in Toyota?  Care to give the details?  Family member has a dealership, you work at a dealership, you own stock in the company?

I'm not faulting you for it.  Indeed, it would add a rational context to your glee at every report of Detroit Three financial crises.  Like I said...rational consumers like more competition, but people with ties to Company X would want Company Y to tank.  Nothing wrong with that, it's just rational self-interest.  For even the most rabid Toyota fan who is merely a consumer, though, the demise of the Big Three is a bad thing because less competition means Toyota can rest on its laurels more while remaining profitable, which means that future Toyotas may not live up to the consumer's expectations.

You just nailed my feelings on this subject. Presently we have a Toyota Yaris Hatch in the drive way and a 2001 Civic (plus an old Chevy as well). As happy as I am with the Toyota and Honda as daily drivers I would gladly drive an Aveo or Cobalt if they offered equivalent reliabilty and fuel economy as our other cars even at an equivalent cost. Time will tell if the big 2.8 can continue to close the gap. What I find worrying is that GM can't seem to make a 4 cylinder mill as frugal at the pumps as Toyota and Honda. From model to model (in sub and compact class anyways) their smaller displacement 4s trail the competition for fuel economy. Why can't they produce a class leading small 4?

[Mitlov]

"can't say i have"..............does that not mean NO ...or in lawyerspeak it must mean YES....

In the legal world, a refusal to deny something something sometimes counts as an admission, and sometimes does not, depending upon the situation.  But this isn't the legal world, it's a car forum.  In the real world, when you ask someone if they work for Toyota, and they say "I've never denied it," that's the functional equivalent of "yes."

[ArticSteve]

Thank you.  So you are ready to publicly admit that you have some sort of stake in Toyota?

Mitlov, I tell ya man having a bit of history in the legal system I really think you should consider joining the DAs office.  The money might not be good, but you have the mentality to GO ALL THE WAY.   

[ArticSteve]

Why can't they produce a class leading small 4?

Because they have ZERO history with small engines and despite all the evidence in the past 10 years that things are going smaller than larger the ppl who run the Detroit 3, until about 2 months ago  , have clung to the higher displacement motor mentality.  Now they just don't have the expertise to develop a line of small displacement vehicles.  GM has resorted to using Daewoos.  It's ridiculous.

Slaughter House 3 is coming and it's not a movie.

[ArticSteve]

Do tell, I may even want to buy one if I can get a good enough discount

Hang in there 2 more years with the GMC.    The Tundra Hybrid will take 50% of the 1/2 ton market.  The other half will go to the Tundra HINO diesel.   

[Mitlov]

Why can't they produce a class leading small 4?

Because they have ZERO history with small engines and despite all the evidence in the past 10 years that things are going smaller than larger the ppl who run the Detroit 3, until about 2 months ago  , have clung to the higher displacement motor mentality.  Now they just don't have the expertise to develop a line of small displacement vehicles.  GM has resorted to using Daewoos.  It's ridiculous.

Slaughter House 3 is coming and it's not a movie.

Opel is a fully-owned GM subsidiary.  Opel has plenty of experience with inline-fours.  The 1.8L Ecotec in the Astra is from Opel.  The Astra is down a couple mpg from the Civic and Corolla, but it's also a couple hundred pounds heavier (typical German chassis design, and it has its benefits on the handling front)...that alone could explain the 2 mpg discrepancy. 

If you want even smaller engines, Opel has an 89hp, 92 lb-ft 1.4L in the Corsa.  If it brings the Corsa over, which it likely will, expect the 1.4L to accompany it.

[barrie1]

GM has been building 4 cylinder engines since the 1st car they built around 1902-6 area no-matter which brand it was. Somebody really is more clueless then we thought. Seems to be many thousands of Cavalers and Sunfires alone on the roads with 4 cylinder engines in them. Gee they are still running as well execept to the blind who know nothing about them at all. The Vega's, Cors :rofl:ica's, Chevettes,Celebritys and how many more all came with 4 cylinder engines. The Tundra's will be 50% off, probably propperly priced for once. GM will have a new Diesel out for next year in the p/u market as well which should sell quite well I suspect. I doubt they will have to cut the price in half to get rid of them at all.