Topic: zr1 nurburg time is in...........

[drederick]

And so it begins - how long until Nissan says the GT-R-r-r-r can do a sub 7 second lap? I can't wait to see the video (and hope there is sound) but the sound of the new Honda supercar is pretty damn nice!

http://blog.gmnext.com/?p=194
Ripping the ‘Ring: Stock ZR1 Laps Nürburgring in 7:26.4

By: Tadge J. Juechter
Corvette Chief Engineer

I know many people have been very interested in how fast the ZR1 would be at the Ring…

Most car enthusiasts are quite familiar with the Nürburgring. Built in the 1920’s near Cologne, Germany, “the Ring” is considered to be the toughest and most challenging race track in the world.

Over the last two weeks, we have been doing our final tuning and testing there before we start ZR1 production cars. This morning (Friday June 27), General Motors development engineer Jim Mero drove the Corvette ZR1 around the Nürburgring in a time of 7:26.4.

Jim commented after the lap that conditions were good except for a strong headwind down the main straight and that the lap was solid, but he felt there were a few places he could have gone faster.

The car was bone stock with the exception of the communications and safety equipment. The tires were production Michelin Pilot Sport 2’s. These tires have been developed specifically for the ZR1 and will have impressive wet traction and wear (tread wear rating = 220), in addition to excellent dry road holding. Chassis alignment and vehicle height were set to factory specs. Likewise, the engine calibrations were absolutely stock, emissions compliant and the car ran on pump (not racing) fuel. The vehicle was exactly like the cars that will be built in Bowling Green, Kentucky and sold around the world later this summer.

Despite posting one of the fastest times ever run by a production car, Nürburgring lap times were not an over-riding priority in the development of the ZR1. The truth is, if the only priority was speed at the ring, the car would not be very pleasant to drive on American roads. The ZR1 is an incredibly capable track machine, but unlike most ultra-high performance cars, it is very easy to live with on a daily basis.

The timed lap was run with a rolling start, a departure from our previous practice of standing starts. This is more aligned with current industry practice. The lap was electronically timed and confirmed with two hand-held stopwatches. An in-car video will be posted when the engineering team returns from Germany. Look for it the week of July 7!

[initial_D]

The GTR's official track time at the 'Ring is 7:29, a 3 second advantage is a huge improvement. Is the time official tho?

[rrocket]

Spec V GT-R has supposedly already gone quicker than that already.......YAAAAAWWWWNNN!!!     


To be honest, I thought the ZR-1 would have been even quicker than a regular GT-R....

[drederick]

Spec V GT-R has supposedly already gone quicker than that already.......YAAAAAWWWWNNN!!!     


To be honest, I thought the ZR-1 would have been even quicker than a regular GT-R....

Spec V GT-R supposedly has gone quicker I guess we will just wait and see There has to be a way to get the vehicles there on the same day and have a 'real' test......

On a side note, I have been following cars for a VERY long time - not just GM but pretty much EVERYTHING out there. Is it just me or are the times for the GT-R so radically different from car to car that there has to be something WAY beyond factory tollerances coming into play.

My personal opinion is that Nissan pretty much had the boost cranked up there for the first few out there for testing (maybe to what the spec v will actually have?) to get the hype going - which it obviously did. And now, when real cars seem to be arriving, they are off from those first tests by alot, but the hype and name is allready out there as being the fastest thing eva.......... LOL

[Mitlov]

The GTR's official track time at the 'Ring is 7:29, a 3 second advantage is a huge improvement. Is the time official tho?

Like others have said, the ZR1 is nearly 50% more expensive than the GT-R though.  The GT-R is priced against the Z06; the upcoming GT-R Spec V will be priced against the ZR1.  I would expect and hope that the ZR1 would be faster than a base GT-R.

[safristi]

  Huh ....MY no BIGGIE RING tone is bigger and brighter than YOURS...........pure adversarial B/S and advertising FODDER....for all "INTENSE" and "PORPOISES" i'd rather be @ MARINE_LAND....where I'd be riding a tank.....rather than navigating a 100KPH HIGH_WAY...?? err SLOW WAY      down there Big Fella ...d'ya know yer brain shrinks and yer "nadgers!!!!" fer EVERY KM OV'R 80..!!!!!

[Mitlov]

On a side note, I have been following cars for a VERY long time - not just GM but pretty much EVERYTHING out there. Is it just me or are the times for the GT-R so radically different from car to car that there has to be something WAY beyond factory tollerances coming into play.

My personal opinion is that Nissan pretty much had the boost cranked up there for the first few out there for testing (maybe to what the spec v will actually have?) to get the hype going - which it obviously did. And now, when real cars seem to be arriving, they are off from those first tests by alot, but the hype and name is allready out there as being the fastest thing eva.......... LOL

I disagree.  There has never been ANY evidence of "cheating" besides the lap time itself.  Here's what I think: (1) the GT-R makes way more than the claimed 480 horsepower (this has been confirmed again and again when it's been slapped on dynos, but this is true for all GT-Rs, not just the one tha lapped the 'Ring).  (2)  The GT-R's advanced electronics allow it to put power to the ground and keep composure more effectively than any other car on the road right now.  Thus, normal power-to-weight comparisons don't work because there's a third variable at work.

Just as traction control is now helping even the most-talented motorcycle racers in the world go faster than before (MotoGP), the GT-R's advanced electronics help it go faster than any other car of that power and that weight could, even with a professional at the helm.

People may argue that electronics are "unsporting," but they really do work.  The EVO MR's amazing performance on tracks is another example.

[initial_D]

Maybe the ZR-1 gets better gas mileage than the GT-R per lap at the "ring as well.

[Triple Bob]

Personally I think people get a bit hung up on ring times.  It's very difficult to verify "stock", as many manufacturers have made tweaks to cars before they do the lap. Nissan have been guilty of this in the past, not saying they have with the current car though.

[drederick]

On a side note, I have been following cars for a VERY long time - not just GM but pretty much EVERYTHING out there. Is it just me or are the times for the GT-R so radically different from car to car that there has to be something WAY beyond factory tollerances coming into play.

My personal opinion is that Nissan pretty much had the boost cranked up there for the first few out there for testing (maybe to what the spec v will actually have?) to get the hype going - which it obviously did. And now, when real cars seem to be arriving, they are off from those first tests by alot, but the hype and name is allready out there as being the fastest thing eva.......... LOL

I disagree.  There has never been ANY evidence of "cheating" besides the lap time itself.  Here's what I think: (1) the GT-R makes way more than the claimed 480 horsepower (this has been confirmed again and again when it's been slapped on dynos, but this is true for all GT-Rs, not just the one tha lapped the 'Ring).  (2)  The GT-R's advanced electronics allow it to put power to the ground and keep composure more effectively than any other car on the road right now.  Thus, normal power-to-weight comparisons don't work because there's a third variable at work.

Just as traction control is now helping even the most-talented motorcycle racers in the world go faster than before (MotoGP), the GT-R's advanced electronics help it go faster than any other car of that power and that weight could, even with a professional at the helm.

People may argue that electronics are "unsporting," but they really do work.  The EVO MR's amazing performance on tracks is another example.

I agree. I've got no problem with electronics, traction control, stability control, and any other driving aid thrown into avehicle to help make it fast - but those same electronic aids should also make it consistent - especially acceleration as the car pretty much drives itself and yet there are huge differences in testing........

What I have a problem with is the differences between the 'hype' creating initial tests (which I guess could include the nurb times.....) and what is starting to show up in more recent testing of the car:
car and driver:
http://www.caranddriver.com/buying_guide/nissan/gt_r/2009_nissan_gt_r/2009_nissan_gt_r_comparison_test+type-reviews_by_make+mode-collection+id-238.html
That GT-R from the May issue launched at 4500 rpm; 4400 rpm is the final setting for production. This GT-R may have been down on power; the May car ran the quarter-mile in 11.5 seconds at 124 mph. This one couldn’t crack 12 seconds and was a stunning 9 mph slower. (We’ve since tested a third GT-R that was as quick as the first car.)

And in the latest Car and Driver they tested it 0-60 at 4.1 and 1/4 mile at 12.6 @111mph in a comparison test with a z06 that included the same track that R&T ran:

buttonwillow config 13, 2.7 miles
z06 2:01.7
gt-r 2:01.1

versus R&Ts earlier test at the same track:

0-60 = 3.4
1/4 = 11.8@116.5

buttonwillow config 13, 2.7 miles
z06 = 2:02.2
GT-R = 1:56.9

So which vehicle is it? one that does a 124 mph quarter mile or 111mph? 5 seconds fatser than a z06 or the same speed on the same track - and note that the z06 was pretty consistent between the 2 tests so how different could the track have been?

All I am saying is that something isn't adding up. It is very fast for sure - but did Nissan send out some over boosted 'pre production' models to get the hype going?

[initial_D]

Different temperature, atmosphere pressure, driver, tyre conditions, ... all can result in different test numbers.

[safristi]

"RING TONES are fer shizzle....aces...the most important thing in my life...semi (pronounced Seam aye!!!) KOOL......

[rrocket]

All I am saying is that something isn't adding up. It is very fast for sure - but did Nissan send out some over boosted 'pre production' models to get the hype going?

The original Z06 that ran a 7:42 was a pre-production model...and no one complained about it.  This new ZR1 that just ran a 7:26.4 is pre-production model...and no one is complaining about it.  But the GT-R?  These same GM fanboys have made every excuse why the GT-R is so quick. From custom shocks to custom ECU/boost tuning....everything has been dreamed up by these people who just can't accept that Nissan built a better car for less money.  While the 1st laps around the Ring in the original GT-R (7:38) may have been a pre-production model, but the one that ran a 7:29 was a JDM production model.

And you'll see why the GT-R (and the forthcoming Spec V) outhandles the Corvettes around the course if you read the article you quoted.  The Z06 is "Jack The Bear" to drive around a racecourse while the GT-R is as easy as can be.  I think the addition of 140 HP over the standard Z06 makes the ZR1 difficult to drive quickly.  I don't think there's much doubt the GT-R Spec V will hit Nissan's goal of "under 7:25"...

[Triple Bob]

And you'll see why the GT-R (and the forthcoming Spec V) outhandles the Corvettes around the course if you read the article you quoted.  The Z06 is "Jack The Bear" to drive around a racecourse while the GT-R is as easy as can be.  I think the addition of 140 HP over the standard Z06 makes the ZR1 difficult to drive quickly. 

RR, with all due respect, how could you know how the ZR1 or the GT-R handles? Even journos are biased.

Much as I hate to defend American cars you've got to give the corvette it's due.  GM have been trying for years to make the Corvette "handle", and with the C6/Z06 they have finally cracked it.  They can also prove to all the Europeans who constantly go on about 'ring times, that it's as good as anything else out there, and it's about half the price.  Most drivers of either the GT-R or Z06/ZR1 will never get near the full performance of their cars, even on the track. So it's a pointless argument about which car is faster, because the air temp, driver, humidity, tyres all play a part.

The main thing is that Nissan/GM/Porsche etc. keep pushing the boundaries of what is possible, which can only benefit us petrolheads!
 

[rrocket]

With all due respect, I've driven a C6 Z06 a few times now.  I have posted about this.  While it was pretty good to drive (and I REALLY liked the factory traction control..one of the best I've sampled) with it off this car is a handful.....BIG TIME.  Makes my Supra feel absolutely tame in comparison (handling wise).  Granted, my tests were on a street...I could imagine how much more difficult it would be to tame this beast with the additional 140HP it has over the standard Z06.  YIKES!!  

So yea...I can see how ANY AWD would give the Z06 a run for it's money on a course if the traction control is off.  It's tail happy...I'm sure the 500TQ has a little something to do with that...  and would only be worse with the big power of the ZR1

[drederick]

All I am saying is that something isn't adding up. It is very fast for sure - but did Nissan send out some over boosted 'pre production' models to get the hype going?

The original Z06 that ran a 7:42 was a pre-production model...and no one complained about it.  This new ZR1 that just ran a 7:26.4 is pre-production model...and no one is complaining about it.  But the GT-R?  These same GM fanboys have made every excuse why the GT-R is so quick. From custom shocks to custom ECU/boost tuning....everything has been dreamed up by these people who just can't accept that Nissan built a better car for less money.  While the 1st laps around the Ring in the original GT-R (7:38) may have been a pre-production model, but the one that ran a 7:29 was a JDM production model.

And you'll see why the GT-R (and the forthcoming Spec V) outhandles the Corvettes around the course if you read the article you quoted.  The Z06 is "Jack The Bear" to drive around a racecourse while the GT-R is as easy as can be.  I think the addition of 140 HP over the standard Z06 makes the ZR1 difficult to drive quickly.  I don't think there's much doubt the GT-R Spec V will hit Nissan's goal of "under 7:25"...

All I am writing is that this car is ALL over the place in terms of acceleration. Only the handling remains the same. This isn't like a hard to launch 505 hp rwd vette that requires maximum skill to get a great 1/4 mile, right? So what is the deal with the 1/4 time moving around so much - and more importantly the trap speed?

Its not like these tests are one offs for the magazines - they have tested the cars afew times. Look at caranddrivers results - out of the 4 tests they have done 2 could not break 12 seconds in the 1/4 mile, the other two were down into the 11.5 second range. Those 4 cars also ranged from 124 mph to 111mph in the quarter mile! That is a huge trap speed difference, right?

Heck the last gt-r caranddriver tested could not reach 100mph in under 10 seconds!

Is it that hard to believe that they cranked the boost early on to get the hype and now it is time for the production models to show up and get tested and they aren't, well, at that same level?

I believe July 7 is the date when it comes on market here in North America - then it'll be interesting to see this on tracks with other cars 'playing' and see what the results are.....

[rrocket]

Is it that hard to believe that they cranked the boost early on to get the hype and now it is time for the production models to show up and get tested and they aren't, well, at that same level?

I guess if you're a fan of conspiracies........ 

[Mitlov]

The Japanese domestic market production GT-R was faster around the Nurburgring than the preproduction GT-R that everyone accused of cheating!  Doesn't that basically eliminate the possibility that the preproduction GT-R was a ringer?  (No pun intended).

Besides, the ONLY evidence that the preproduction GT-R was a ringer was it's amazing lap times.  Well, now the CTS-V and the ZR1 are posting some amazing lap times.  Maybe we should accuse GM of cheating based solely on their performance? 

[rrocket]

Well...you could accuse them I suppose...since the ZR1 they used is a pre-production model.  I'm fine with the times though...but like I said, I expected it to be MUCH quicker than the times it posted.  It has a 30% power advantage and a 15% weight advantage over the standard GT-R.  With that kind of power/weight, it should be able to make up 3 seconds on the straights alone.....Is something wrong? Does it need more tuning? Remember, this is the car GM boasted “will be able to take the production-car track record at any racetrack”

I expect the car to be quicker with some more tweaking.

[drederick]

Well...you could accuse them I suppose...since the ZR1 they used is a pre-production model.  I'm fine with the times though...but like I said, I expected it to be MUCH quicker than the times it posted.  It has a 30% power advantage and a 15% weight advantage over the standard GT-R.  With that kind of power/weight, it should be able to make up 3 seconds on the straights alone.....Is something wrong? Does it need more tuning? Remember, this is the car GM boasted “will be able to take the production-car track record at any racetrack”

I expect the car to be quicker with some more tweaking.

rrocket and mitlov - I guess we'll see when they start showing up in owners hands, right? July 7th is the NA date for deliveries.... then we'll see what it can (or cannot) do