Topic: Toyota gets attacked for worker rights abuses

[PJungnitsch]

What other car makers get their products built outside of North America with cheap labour?

I'm guessing you could write the same article on Ford's Mazda operations in Japan and Thailand, or on the factory practices of Nissan, Honda, Suzuki, etc. Just change the headline and the factory names.

Then of course you could get into all the companies (Ford, Gm and Chrysler, included) that are increasingly relying on Chinese parts and investing heavily into Chinese joint venture companies.

[Triple Bob]

Why doesn't anyone criticise the consumer, it's us that demand constantly lower prices.

 

That's an interesting twist. So it's actually our fault that Toyota has had to take advantage of its workers in order to price its magnificent products so low (and to earn its $12B in profits).

30 lashes for us. Carry on Toyota. All is forgiven as long as your product is good.

All manufacturers have to be competitive, many times they take this too far, especially in their supply chain as they can always claim ignorance.  Christ if you were that sensitive about it you wouldn't own anything not made in North America/Canada by well paid workers.  Is anything in you house "made in China"?

Come on, open your eyes.
 

Look at the way Walmart has treated it's employees over the years, yet people still shop there as it's cheap, the vast majority don't care why it's so cheap, as long as it doesn't affect them. I prefer to pay slightly more for better service and locally sourced goods.

[Cord]

All manufacturers have to be competitive, many times they take this too far, especially in their supply chain as they can always claim ignorance.  Christ if you were that sensitive about it you wouldn't own anything not made in North America/Canada by well paid workers.  Is anything in you house "made in China"?

The difference is that I don't claim to be morally superior because I own something "made in China" like Prius driving celebrities do. I don't actively and proudly proclaim "made in China" products to be better than all others like so many Toyota zealots do. And I certainly don't brag about about the profits made by "made in China" companies like Toyota groupies do.

BTW, are you really equating the forcible deporting of workers who complain about working conditions with anything Walmart has done?

[Mitlov]

BTW, are you really equating the forcible deporting of workers who complain about working conditions with anything Walmart has done?

Actually, at least one time in the States, Walmart got busted for hiring illegal Mexican immigrants and then making them work absurdly-long hours at well below minimum wage, with a threat of reporting them to the INS if they complained.  That's my recollection of the facts, at least.  It really was a pretty awful situation.

And no, I do not shop at Walmart unless I'm in a situation in a small town where I need something and that's the ONLY place to get it.

Regardless, Cord, I've got to agree with you.  If this story was exactly the same, except Ford was the brand caught red-handed, we'd see a whole bunch of "this is a new low for them" and "how pathetic can they get" rants, instead of the excuses, justifications, and the like we're seeing in this thread.  I'm going to come out and say what I know a few people are thinking: CTC is a great forum overall, but Toyota is the golden boy of this forum, and really is held to a different standard. 

[Cord]

Actually, at least one time in the States, Walmart got busted for hiring illegal Mexican immigrants and then making them work absurdly-long hours at well below minimum wage, with a threat of reporting them to the INS if they complained.  That's my recollection of the facts, at least.  It really was a pretty awful situation.

Then I stand corrected if that was what turboBob was referring to.

[tpl]

"CTC is a great forum overall, but Toyota is the golden boy of this forum, and really is held to a different standard.  "     

Toyota is the  totally boring golden boy   maybe ?    (RRockets Supra excepted I guess    )

[PJungnitsch]

...but Toyota is the golden boy of this forum, and really is held to a different standard. 

More like the two of you have rods up your butts about the company in question and just can't bear to see anything good said about it. An article like that could have been written about any company that manufactures in Asia, especially as the people who wrote it are about as objective as PETA.

'You cannot add to the stature of a dwarf by cutting off the leg of a giant'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome

[Cord]

Wow. Apparently criticizing Toyota is now a personal attack that must be retaliated against in kind.

Somehow I don't get a lot of comfort from the "well, all Asian companies act like that" line of justification. Frankly, I am at a loss as to why it seems so hard for some people to simply condemn a company that would use these practices.

[initial_D]

It is sad and sickening to see business practices like these, however, onto the bigger picture, it is disturbing that the gov't in those regions allows them, maybe even, encourage them.

[toolatecrew]

Why doesn't anyone criticise the consumer, it's us that demand constantly lower prices.

 

That's an interesting twist. So it's actually our fault that Toyota has had to take advantage of its workers in order to price its magnificent products so low (and to earn its $12B in profits).

30 lashes for us. Carry on Toyota. All is forgiven as long as your product is good.

Actually consumers do deserve a share of the blame. If people are aware of Toyota's practices but simply continue to buy their products they are in effect approving Toyota's practices. Posting in a forum or complaining about Toyota's practices won't change them one bit. All consumers can do is vote with their $s. It will be interesting to see that now that this has been publicized if they actually will? My guess is no. People will turn a blind eye and keep buying the cars.

[Triple Bob]

All manufacturers have to be competitive, many times they take this too far, especially in their supply chain as they can always claim ignorance.  Christ if you were that sensitive about it you wouldn't own anything not made in North America/Canada by well paid workers.  Is anything in you house "made in China"?

The difference is that I don't claim to be morally superior because I own something "made in China" like Prius driving celebrities do. I don't actively and proudly proclaim "made in China" products to be better than all others like so many Toyota zealots do. And I certainly don't brag about about the profits made by "made in China" companies like Toyota groupies do.

BTW, are you really equating the forcible deporting of workers who complain about working conditions with anything Walmart has done?

Cord your sort of missing the point.  I haven't defended Toyota at all in this, but I do think the consumer needs to share some of the blame.  We are far to quick to buy goods on price alone, and manufacturers only change their ways when consumers vote with their $$$'s.

[safristi]

..Toyota has been put on a Pee_knuckle...and Honda onna Gee_Engineering karbunkle..that will take years to SOLIDIFY OR EVAPORATE.....as the Euro & Domestics have done.....could be!!! HELL yeah IT WILL BE an intersting few years.........IMHO tha Companies that take the sooner the better we bring our clean diesel 60mpg sh*t here tha better....oh and the fun wee cars too......I can't wait ta see McCain & Obama being trans_PO'ed inna phalanx of FITS..............    "CORRECTION" this year it would be a Procession of PRII !!!!

[Cord]

I haven't defended Toyota at all in this, but I do think the consumer needs to share some of the blame.  We are far to quick to buy goods on price alone, and manufacturers only change their ways when consumers vote with their $$$'s.

OK, fair enough. However, I am still fascinated with the double standard regarding Toyota vs. domestic makers. There have been plenty of discussions here about domestic manufacturers use of cheap parts from suppliers and even one poster that has worked as a parts supplier and who has mentioned how poor the domestic makers have been to work for as they try to reduce their parts cost. In all of those discussions it never ocurred to anyone to ever suggest that consumers were to blame for demanding cheaper products. The blame was 100% put on the car makers for trying to foist cheap parts on an unsuspecting public. And I can only imagine the skewering a poster that dared to blame consumers would have gotten.

However, now we have a report mentioning Toyota's 10 year plan to reduce it costs from suppliers and right away we get "but it's consumers' fault" as if it's the most natural response in the world.

I'm curious to hear johngenx's take on this as he has often expressed his disdain for exploitive management paractices. That, and also he is a proud owner of a new Toyota.

[Mitlov]

...but Toyota is the golden boy of this forum, and really is held to a different standard. 

More like the two of you have rods up your butts about the company in question and just can't bear to see anything good said about it.

 

Click here: Mitlov: My Lexus IS250 X-Package test-drive

When you read that, do you say "the author just can't bear to see anything good said about Toyota"?  So...would you like some salt on that crow?

My indignation here is driven, not by some pathological hatred of Toyota, but by a concern for worker's rights...a concern I have brought up on this forum before, in other contexts.

Click here: Mitlov: Is your car company gay-friendly?