Topic: BMW GINA Light Visionary Model: mind-blowing

[Mitlov]

Pictures don't do this justice.  You need to see it in motion to get what it's all about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTYiEkQYhWY

I think it's actually a cool return to BMW's roots in biplanes (which were generally cloth stretched over frame ribs).  It also helps explain where the unique look of "flame surfacing" (which doesn't actually look at all like fire to me) comes from.

[rrocket]

Neat idea!  Car is ugly as sin though.  I'll take the non moving Mazda prototype cars over this one....

[EV Dan]

Not bad for an idea, but imagine how flappy the thing will be. On the second thought they will have to ban knives and razor blades in the proximity  Truly outstanding how much money BMW makes to spend on such "research"

[Mitlov]

Not bad for an idea, but imagine how flappy the thing will be.

I don't think that the fabric on early aircraft flapped at all unless it was torn.

On the second thought they will have to ban knives and razor blades in the proximity 

Those knives and razor blades and keys do tons of damage to expensive paint jobs and expensive tires, too.  Sheet metal can be easily dented (Mazda3 tennis ball issue, anyone?).  Windows can be easily smashed.  Current cars aren't exactly vandalism-proof, so I don't see that that's a big mark against this design.

[mmret]

Very, very nice. The car looks wonderful, almost organic.

[rrocket]

I don't think that the fabric on early aircraft flapped at all unless it was torn.

Because many of them had a fuel proof dope on them and they were rigid.  The silk cloth would be eaten by fuel, so they had to protect it.  So they put dope on it.  Made it hard.

[Mitlov]

I don't think that the fabric on early aircraft flapped at all unless it was torn.

Because many of them had a fuel proof dope on them and they were rigid.  The silk cloth would be eaten by fuel, so they had to protect it.  So they put dope on it.  Made it hard.

Anyway, I'm sure the folks who built the M3's engine will be able to figure out how to make a fabric that doesn't flap in the wind.

[rrocket]

^^Oh I'm sure.  But man...I can see vandals having a field day with this.  I'm sure this is not really intended for production...more as a design exercise than anything...

[Mitlov]

^^Oh I'm sure.  But man...I can see vandals having a field day with this.  I'm sure this is not really intended for production...more as a design exercise than anything...

Like vandals have field days with convertibles? 

[EV Dan]

It always puzzled me why car makers still use heavy and "rusty" steel panels which are hard to repair after any collision. Why not take an Atom and wrap it in if not fiberglass then some other light plastic. With the fuel efficiency race full throttle thats something to think about.

[rrocket]

^^Oh I'm sure.  But man...I can see vandals having a field day with this.  I'm sure this is not really intended for production...more as a design exercise than anything...

Like vandals have field days with convertibles? 

Worse.......

[Mitlov]

Worse.......

With five minutes and a crowbar, you can completely destroy the bodywork on a steel-skinned car if you're in the mood.  With five minutes and a knife, you can completely destroy the bodywork on a steel-skinned car if you're in the mood.  So I don't see why vandalism should be the focus of this discussion, as opposed, to, say, the idea of using a steel endoskeleton instead of a steel exoskeleton for an automobile.

[rrocket]

^^Ok..if you say so...

[mmret]

Worse.......

With five minutes and a crowbar, you can completely destroy the bodywork on a steel-skinned car if you're in the mood.  With five minutes and a knife, you can completely destroy the bodywork on a steel-skinned car if you're in the mood.  So I don't see why vandalism should be the focus of this discussion, as opposed, to, say, the idea of using a steel endoskeleton instead of a steel exoskeleton for an automobile.

But what about unintentional damages? Say some kids are nearby and playing with a basketball, etc. or you have some stuff to bring home from Wallys and it has sharp edges and doesn't quite fit in the trunk...

Vandalism isn't the only thing that damages a car, and undoubtedly a fabric skin car will be more fragile. Also since the skin comes in very, very few pieces wouldn't replacement be a nightmare? Have to get the whole thing redone, not just a fender panel or something.

[rrocket]

Mitlov says no..so let's just leave it at that..M'kay?   

[Mitlov]

Mitlov says no..so let's just leave it at that..M'kay?   

Wow, the guy who just told Wing that his test was "a poor test at best" and "poorly thought out" because he wanted a different sort of test than Wing had in mind, is now calling other people inflexible?   

[Cord]

Worse.......

With five minutes and a crowbar, you can completely destroy the bodywork on a steel-skinned car if you're in the mood.  With five minutes and a knife, you can completely destroy the bodywork on a steel-skinned car if you're in the mood.  So I don't see why vandalism should be the focus of this discussion, as opposed, to, say, the idea of using a steel endoskeleton instead of a steel exoskeleton for an automobile.

But what about unintentional damages? Say some kids are nearby and playing with a basketball, etc. or you have some stuff to bring home from Wallys and it has sharp edges and doesn't quite fit in the trunk...

Vandalism isn't the only thing that damages a car, and undoubtedly a fabric skin car will be more fragile. Also since the skin comes in very, very few pieces wouldn't replacement be a nightmare? Have to get the whole thing redone, not just a fender panel or something.

Let's use some imagination here people! I doubt the designers intended to use the same nylon that your windbreaker is made out of.

[Mitlov]

But what about unintentional damages? Say some kids are nearby and playing with a basketball, etc. or you have some stuff to bring home from Wallys and it has sharp edges and doesn't quite fit in the trunk...

Vandalism isn't the only thing that damages a car, and undoubtedly a fabric skin car will be more fragile.

Regarding unintentional damage: it would be more prone to some types of damage, certainly.  But less prone to others.  Runaway grocery carts?  No sweat.  Bouncing stones on the highway?  No paint chips.

Also since the skin comes in very, very few pieces wouldn't replacement be a nightmare? Have to get the whole thing redone, not just a fender panel or something.

According to Chris Bangle in the video, it takes about two hours to completely skin the GINA.  I'm also assuming that a production model would have more pieces of cloth than the concept.  Probably separate pieces for the door, hood, etc, just like a metal-skinned car.  Replacement, if anything, should be cheaper and faster than replacing bodywork on a metal-skinned car, it seems to me.

[rrocket]

Mitlov says no..so let's just leave it at that..M'kay?   

Wow, the guy who just told Wing that his test was "a poor test at best" and "poorly thought out" because he wanted a different sort of test than Wing had in mind, is now calling other people inflexible?   

I didn't call you inflexible.  I don't see where I call you that. I said you were right.  Shrugs.  Can't win with you...

[Mitlov]

I didn't call you inflexible..I said you were right.  Shrugs.  Can't win with you...

Reply #14 was dripping in sarcasm and petulance, even if you didn't use a roll-eye emoticon to drive the point home.  I'm not completely oblivious to those things.