Topic: GM closing Oshawa truck plant

[Wolfe]

Companies like GM founded and helped build this Country but the Imports have never and never will as well. 

Toyota is building and hiring in Woodstock and Honda is expanding in Alliston. It's not that the automotive industry is dying, it just GM that is dying.


The days of getting a job when you're 18 or 20 and working for the same company until retirement are over and gone. That's the new reality. I graduated university knowing that I'd likely have to make 5 or 6 major changes during my career.

[tpl]

Companies like GM founded and helped build this Country but the Imports have never and never will as well. 

Toyota is building and hiring in Woodstock and Honda is expanding in Alliston. It's not that the automotive industry is dying, it just GM that is dying.


The days of getting a job when you're 18 or 20 and working for the same company until retirement are over and gone. That's the new reality. I graduated university knowing that I'd likely have to make 5 or 6 major changes during my career.

Yes "you graduated University" Many people only just got through High school or didn't quite make that milestone even.and had to get a job that relied on the strength of their hands not of their brain.  I suggest to you that it is those jobs that are disappearing and it is those people who are the line workers who will be laid off at GM.

[Ex-airbalancer]

I was watching the local news last night, and a reporter interviewed some GM employees at the headquarters blockade.  One employee interviewed has been there 20 years and makes $32/hour.  He only has a Grade 12 level education.  This guy will be screwed when looking for another job.  There's no way he'll get a non-union/non-Big 3 job that will pay anywhere near that amount.

I've been working for 8 years and have a college education.  I do not make as much as this dude. 

Time for a job in the trades
Union sheet metal package is $47/hr after 5 years

[Rupert]

Unionisation of (major number) workforce employees have skewed the level of financial return vis education endeavour over time. Un-unionised workforces at satalite companies providing input to Aotomotive plants, in the form of parts and high-tech machinery, have never had the same pull. Many of these positions require higher education of the occupier. Then as stated previously, the pay is often less than auto industry grade 12. There is no chance for these people to enjoy the enforced increases and perks. Often lay-off is part of the realisation here. Followed by UIC only. No doubt the industry closings will have an effect on fringe companies also.
Whenever contract increases were negotiated in the past, no regard was paid to fringe industry positions. No thought paid to the efforts of car companies to recoup losses elswhere from others. So that the lack off great concern here from outsiders may be a direct result of this, and the move to purchase cheaper and often better foreign product understandable. Even though it is noted that the closings are truck producing plants.
Wages outside of the major union phenomina have stagnated for many years so that unions have to view the whole spectrum of society when lauding their packages. Envy can be a major motivator when disbursing disposable income.
One wonders how the other major unions are viewing the shut-downs...public service..teachers..transport. Perhaps a different sort of relationship between unions and society could be sought that considers a much broader  spectrum than membership returns and maybe governments should play a more meaningful role.

[tenpenny]

Companies like GM founded and helped build this Country but the Imports have never and never will as well. 

I understood that it was the Autopact that kept GM from shutting down all of their plants in Canada, after they took over McLaughlin.  In other words, it has, for 40 years or so, been political moves that have kept the auto industry in Ontario.

I don't believe GM kept their Canadian operations going out of some odd feeling of benevolence.

For the record, I don't hate the workers.  I do, however, find it somewhat ironic that many of these same people are the ones who insulted anyone living east of Montreal for asking for essentially the same treatment.

[toolatecrew]

GM workers blockade

After receiving word of the coming cuts, workers blockaded GM's Oshawa headquarters on Wednesday. Protesters remained at the location on Friday morning.

Hargrove said on Thursday that workers are prepared for a full blown strike if GM doesn't reverse the decision to close the plant.

HA H AH HA HA HA

GM- We can't sell all these trucks you are producing so we have too much inventory . We need to close this plant down but we'll give you a year to close things up even though we really don't need the trucks. The sooner we close it the better really but we'll give it a year.

Buzz- NO WAY. You can't close the plant. We'll go on strike and no trucks will be produced starting tomorrow.

GM- Uhh Great Buzz so we can shout down producction starting tomorrow instead of waiting until next year? THANKS!

Newsflash Buzz. When a company wants to cut production the threat of cutting production (via stirke) does not exactly inspire fear.

It is sad these people lost their jobs for the indivuiduals. I've lost jobs to downsizing before too. I went and found another job. I've never once heard Buzz say "OK you are moving jobs to Mexico what would we have to do to compete with Mexico" Probaly becuase he knows the answer. Produce the vehicles at less than half the labour cost. Its not even like they need to match Mexico $ ofr $. The Candian plant has proven high quality so less defects meaning lower return/warranty costs. So although it might cost $20 K to produce a truck in canada the warranty cost may be only 1 K instead of 2k long term for a Mexico truck meaning the reral cost of the Can truck is only 19K compoared to Mexico truck. There are likley also some production efficiencies from the experienced workforce. So although the wage gap may be $15 the cost gap may actually be $10. So maybe wokers don't need to take a $15 paycut to compete with Mexico maybe only $10 but I'll bet that's never even been discussed. CAW talks about wage FREEZES as a concession when the gap is so huge that only a massive cut would bring parity. Unions don't accept wage cuts.

Think about it like this:

Billy cuts your Lawn every summer. He's been doing it for 5 years. He's really good at it. Does a nice job pretty fast. % years ago you cave him $10. Becuase he's your bosse's kidd you give him $1 increase every year. He's up to $15 an hour. He's not your bosses kid anymore. Joey says Hey I'll mow your lawn starting next month for $5 an hour. Now Joey might not be as perfect or as fast (becuase he hasn't cut your lawn before) but hey its mowing a lawn not rocket science right its not a highly educated or sklilled job.

Billy gets mad and says the best I can do is agree not to ask to be bumped up to $16 an hour next summer. If not I'm going on strike and not mowing your lawn this month.

So what are you gonna do? Billy won't even take a cut to $10 an hour whilly Joey will still take $5. You say fine Billy see ya. Get Joey in to start at $5 an hour right away. Even if Joey takes TWICE as long becuase he's not expereinced. Even if Joey has to go over some sports twice becuase he's not as perfect as Billy he's still costing at least $5 less for the same end result.

The only thing I can see here that GM maybe should do is that IF (and only if) they agreed to operate the plant for 3 years in return for a wage freeze that they lift that wage freeze and close the plant in a year as planned. Any concessions that were tied to keeping the plant open should be returned. Not that iot will do the workers any good since they can't get a raise if the plant is closed but hey fair is fair right.

[tpl]

Billy then pickets your house to prevent Joey from mowing the lawn.  Thats the 2008 version

Billy beats the sh$t out of Joey with a baseball bat to persuade Joey that he doesn't want to mow your lawn .The 1920s version

[tenpenny]

More like,

Your boss then fires YOU, because you fired Billy.

[dr_spock]

Then you hire a seasonal labourer from Mexico to cut your lawn. 

[initial_D]

Maybe a hunger strike will get more sympathy from the GM Headquarters?

[gta_driver]

I don't think the CAW realizes that there blockade is more symbolic then an effective action to disrupt business at GMCL. After the last prolonged labour dispute where the CAW set up a blocakde in front of CHQ, GMCL got smart and armed everyone with laptops, VPN, teleconference lines, web collaboration tools and offsite meeting/working locations. Business continues as usual. No one has seen a drop in workload. I think the only ones really being affected are the auto writers who right auto reviews. There is no access to the test fleet and custodial, maintenanance, cafeteria and landscaping staff who ironically are CAW.

[toolatecrew]

Well I guess they figure sitting around blocking the GM offices is a more productive use of their time than looking for a job to replace the one that will inevitably be gone in a year?

Has a blockade like this ever resulted in the keeping of a plant that was earmarked for closure open in recent history? What about ever?

Maybe they should go ask their brother's and sisters in the pulp and paper industry how effective that is? As for the Government pumping $ in to save the plant Nova Scotia has already seen the reults of action like this with Sydney Steel. I truly hope they follow through with their plan to recall loans/grants tied to employment created.

[inco]

So Mr. Buzz and his minions go to Washington - er Detroit, to meet Uncle Rick and the Wagoneers hoping to save some face and force GM to honor their agreement. Good luck Buzzy, I think you are already in space because I don't think it's going to happen.

They will come back with their tails between their legs and then plan a strategy. Oh yeah, I heard they have one - they want to strike the plant! Yippee - can you hear the stockholders and all the people in Detroit cheering?  That's what GM wants to do and here the CAW wants to help them by making it happen sooner! Way to go Buzzballs.


Business is business and it hurts. I am surprised though that GM went ahead and signed the labor deal with the CAW and then two weeks later pulled the plug. That kind of decision making mentality worrys me even more about their long term viability.

[ghost]

Reading through some of the postings now made me realised why domestic cars assembled here have such poor quality.
It seems that the workers are upset at the employers due to various factors and fanned by the Union bosses. It leads to angst against their tasks at hand. After all imagine you are pissed at how GM is closing some plants that your brother and uncle had worked. There will be some bitterness that will lead to discontent and ultimately a "I don't care" mentality at th line. Which then lead to poor quality products rolling out of the plant. And due to bad products, sales tank. So car mfg has to shut down plants to compensate for losses. It's a vicious cycle.
I was just reading an article about the assembly plant workers in Japan for an unnamed car company. As I was reading it, I can feel the brimming pride of the workers telling how proud they are putting the engines together, performing QA or even just a guy driving the finished product out to the lot etc. It is as if they are in this together with the employer as a single family unit.

[tenpenny]

Proving that he doesn't read, and never buys gas, and generally is completely oblivious to the world, 'Mr. Hargrove said the union told GM it is not convinced that economic conditions changed so radically in such a short time.'

[safristi]

..why does my lawn mower Buzz.....damn the handle broke on my 26 year olde biily/joey thang!!! bluddy immigrunts.....from Scotland.....McSquinty is Up in ARM loads of CASH ta FIX it.......not my mower   but the haughty Industry... ..some folkin people never learn......

   wot wasit 10 years or so ago......Massey Ferguson gotta BIG buncha CASH to stay down Brantford way...with a 3 year ..maybe 4 year time frame...the Day the "contract" wozzUP!!!   they fled to New Yack......leaving Brantford a shell and the Gov
 Multi Millions worth of EGG ON THEIR FACE................hell if ya buy a frontloaded Gov
 Labour Fund ya have to HOLD it fer 8 that's EIGHT years before ya FOLD it (stupidly bought some fer the tax breaks ma'self)..but McSquinty et al will give ya 100's O' Millions onna handshake kinda deal....and MORE if ya smile and kissarse....

[initial_D]

Proving that he doesn't read, and never buys gas, and generally is completely oblivious to the world, 'Mr. Hargrove said the union told GM it is not convinced that economic conditions changed so radically in such a short time.'

The question is, can he actually read?

[Wolfe]

Companies like GM founded and helped build this Country but the Imports have never and never will as well. 

Toyota is building and hiring in Woodstock and Honda is expanding in Alliston. It's not that the automotive industry is dying, it just GM that is dying.


The days of getting a job when you're 18 or 20 and working for the same company until retirement are over and gone. That's the new reality. I graduated university knowing that I'd likely have to make 5 or 6 major changes during my career.

Yes "you graduated University" Many people only just got through High school or didn't quite make that milestone even.and had to get a job that relied on the strength of their hands not of their brain.  I suggest to you that it is those jobs that are disappearing and it is those people who are the line workers who will be laid off at GM.

Firstly, those jobs aren't disappearing, just the ones with relatively high pay and generous benefits. Second, it doesn't really matter that I have a degree or not pretty much everyone my age will have to make several major job changes during their working life.

I understand the situation that the GM workers are finding themselves in now and I feel sorry for them. But being laid off, restructured, or (my least favorite term) being "reengineered" out of a job is a common experience nowadays. GM is a struggling company and cannot insulate its workers from the realities of the wider job market anymore.

[tpl]

let me modify my statement    those jobs are disappearing in post industrial societies such as the US and Canada.

I don't disagree that you will have to make many changes during  your working life.  My cohort may prove to be the last one that managed to get through all the way with little disruption... apart from civil servants possibly.

[initial_D]

You mean gov't workers?

My language has word for that ... golden rice bowl ... excepet here it comes in a full package and more.