Author Topic: GM closing Oshawa truck plant  (Read 68656 times)

Offline tpl

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2008, 10:24:31 am »
Maybe they would have closed earlier.Maybe they would have added some Cobalt/G6 tooling there if it is truly the highest quality plant.   I dunno. Maybe they would have negotiated differently with the CAW .
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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #41 on: June 04, 2008, 01:05:02 pm »
It appears GM all doing all three as fast as they can. So it is difficult to fault their approach at this time...the fault is that they did not see this coming  a year ago or so.... or more likely, they did see it coming and decided not to act on it.

I think its more of the latter. How could GM not see this coming as almost everybody on this board has written about this over the last year. But who knows why they didn't do anything about it? I'm sure somebody in that ivory tower has their reasons.


Even if GM had seen these changes a year ago it wouldn't have mattered much. It takes significantly longer than a year to react to large market changes. Even in a stable market environment it takes lots of time to bring a new car to market. The design, engineering, retooling and production process takes time.

GM realistically would have needed to decide to dramatically change its product mix 5 years ago for those changes to be having their effects today. In the meantime that would have required them to forego some profitable truck and SUV sales while shifting production capacity away from their reliance on light trucks.

At the moment, with truck sales falling, all they can do is suffer.

Offline inco

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #42 on: June 04, 2008, 02:50:52 pm »
.....the workers will now become alcoholics and domestic abusers...


Job security for me!  ;D

You won't be too happy when your new cruisers are made in Korea because no city can afford V8's anymore, if any are still made. How does a Sonata work for you?  ::) :rofl:

JBrill

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #43 on: June 04, 2008, 02:59:59 pm »
Just a PR tactic by GM to get more concessions out of the Union and the Province.

Does it really make sense to close down a #1 plant and lose a qualified workforce when, hopefully, business will pick up again in a couple of years?  Add to that all the regulatory and infrastructure already in place...  No, GM will probably retool the plant to meet new market demands but first it wants a better deal from the workers and it knows the Province will be desperate to keep them around.

Offline ktm525

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2008, 03:14:30 pm »
Just a PR tactic by GM to get more concessions out of the Union and the Province.

Does it really make sense to close down a #1 plant and lose a qualified workforce when, hopefully, business will pick up again in a couple of years?  Add to that all the regulatory and infrastructure already in place...  No, GM will probably retool the plant to meet new market demands but first it wants a better deal from the workers and it knows the Province will be desperate to keep them around.

I don't think so,  the UAW made some serious concessions that that CAW wouldn't match (Buzzzzzzzz). With dollar at parity it is much cheaper to produce cars/trucks in the USA.

Offline Triple Bob

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2008, 03:23:34 pm »
Just a PR tactic by GM to get more concessions out of the Union and the Province.

Does it really make sense to close down a #1 plant and lose a qualified workforce when, hopefully, business will pick up again in a couple of years?  Add to that all the regulatory and infrastructure already in place...  No, GM will probably retool the plant to meet new market demands but first it wants a better deal from the workers and it knows the Province will be desperate to keep them around.

And why exactly will demand pick up again?  I have a feeling it's not cyclical this time round... Is that an oxymoron?


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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2008, 03:24:22 pm »
ah..............BUZZ & FUZZ...when does tha Moofie come out............... :popo: :cp2: ...No Turbo B it's a Big WHEEL... keeps on turnin'''.........Ferris is that U???...
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 03:29:19 pm by safristi »
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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #47 on: June 04, 2008, 03:41:06 pm »
Did GM bargain in good faith in regards to thier last agreement with Buzz? (Come on, doesn't GM have a bunch of marketing wizzes who could have forcasted this demise-let see US sub prime failure, declines in consumer confidence, house starts down majorly(contractors are not buying new trucks), declining US currency meaning higher oil cost and fear premium in oil--these economic factors have been in play for more than a year).

Buzz did not see those trends also? Both failed to accept the truth, trucks have provided a much higher margin than cars and union members have enjoyed many years of fair increases even though Domestics manufactures have been losing $$ due to higher costs(union negotiated legacy costs-great benefits and pensions).

It is shame that individuals will suffer due to market corrections and or poor business decisions.
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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #48 on: June 04, 2008, 03:45:14 pm »
Just a PR tactic by GM to get more concessions out of the Union and the Province.

Does it really make sense to close down a #1 plant and lose a qualified workforce when, hopefully, business will pick up again in a couple of years?  Add to that all the regulatory and infrastructure already in place...  No, GM will probably retool the plant to meet new market demands but first it wants a better deal from the workers and it knows the Province will be desperate to keep them around.

And why exactly will demand pick up again?  I have a feeling it's not cyclical this time round... Is that an oxymoron?

I meant demand for GM products in general, not for Trucks/SUV's.  Once the US economy comes out of recession, folks will buy cars again, only makes sense.  High gas prices will make SUV's generally less desirable.

Offline The Fuzz

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #49 on: June 04, 2008, 03:46:19 pm »
.....the workers will now become alcoholics and domestic abusers...


Job security for me!  ;D

You won't be too happy when your new cruisers are made in Korea because no city can afford V8's anymore, if any are still made. How does a Sonata work for you?  ::) :rofl:

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #50 on: June 04, 2008, 03:48:20 pm »
Just a PR tactic by GM to get more concessions out of the Union and the Province.

Does it really make sense to close down a #1 plant and lose a qualified workforce when, hopefully, business will pick up again in a couple of years?  Add to that all the regulatory and infrastructure already in place...  No, GM will probably retool the plant to meet new market demands but first it wants a better deal from the workers and it knows the Province will be desperate to keep them around.

I don't think so,  the UAW made some serious concessions that that CAW wouldn't match (Buzzzzzzzz). With dollar at parity it is much cheaper to produce cars/trucks in the USA.

Exactly.  GM is now playing the "I'm closing the plant" card and will get more concessions out of CAW and the Province even though they have a "deal".  GM simply has to say the environment has changed and it can't afford the deal it made "in good faith".

Offline dougjp

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #51 on: June 04, 2008, 04:22:23 pm »
Just a PR tactic by GM to get more concessions out of the Union and the Province.

Does it really make sense to close down a #1 plant and lose a qualified workforce when, hopefully, business will pick up again in a couple of years?  Add to that all the regulatory and infrastructure already in place...  No, GM will probably retool the plant to meet new market demands but first it wants a better deal from the workers and it knows the Province will be desperate to keep them around.

I don't think so,  the UAW made some serious concessions that that CAW wouldn't match (Buzzzzzzzz). With dollar at parity it is much cheaper to produce cars/trucks in the USA.

Exactly.  GM is now playing the "I'm closing the plant" card and will get more concessions out of CAW and the Province even though they have a "deal".  GM simply has to say the environment has changed and it can't afford the deal it made "in good faith".

I read that reply the exact opposite way. They have headed south of the border with much of their future new vehicle production (Ohio is being expanded for another new small car production). Just maintain the remains of what still exists here, and aren't coming back for more of Buzzzz. All with a parting wave saying; "how nice of you and for you to have played hardball with us, looks good on ya!".

Offline dougjp

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2008, 05:48:19 pm »

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2008, 06:19:56 pm »
I read that reply the exact opposite way. They have headed south of the border with much of their future new vehicle production (Ohio is being expanded for another new small car production). Just maintain the remains of what still exists here, and aren't coming back for more of Buzzzz.

I'm afraid that is the case.  Top quality and efficiency records and awards don't mean squat compared to Mexican auto wages.

GM white collar worker will be the next.  The real estate market in and around Oshawa is already feeling the squeeze.

How do you say F L I N T in Oshawonian.  :'(

Whose to blame ultimately  ???  One MORON and one half of a country that put him into office TWICE.  If it were not for the Iraq war and the subsequent cost and the incredible mismanagement of the US economy over the last 7 years including the sub prime mess and subsequent credit squeeze, oil would not be used as a hedge against the US dollar and oil prices would probably be half of what they are today.  Hence no gas crisis at least now and no plant closing.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 06:34:24 pm by articsteve »

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2008, 06:46:26 pm »
with the new nuke plant coming on in a couple of years to Darlington
the construction works will buy the houses in Oshawa, it will take 10 years to build it

Offline rrocket

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2008, 07:17:56 pm »


Whose to blame ultimately  ???  One MORON and one half of a country that put him into office TWICE.  If it were not for the Iraq war and the subsequent cost and the incredible mismanagement of the US economy over the last 7 years including the sub prime mess and subsequent credit squeeze, oil would not be used as a hedge against the US dollar and oil prices would probably be half of what they are today.  Hence no gas crisis at least now and no plant closing.

Steve...Two morons.  I'm not prepared to let Buzz off the hook.  The US economy IS bad..but the UAW had the balls to make difficult decisions to save some jobs for their workforce.  The CAW, on the other hand, did not.  Buzz's ego prevented him from making cuts that would have preserved CDN jobs.  He's an epic failure for the CAW.
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gta_driver

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2008, 08:28:37 pm »
.

GM white collar worker will be the next.  The real estate market in and around Oshawa is already feeling the squeeze.

How do you say F L I N T in Oshawonian.  :'(


You would be hard pressed to find an actual GM employee at CHQ and of the ones that you can actually find, most are 1 or 2 years away from retirement. In 2006 approximatly 2000 white collar workers where let go, some through early retirement, other where given severance. Only skeleton staff remains. I would say the majority of white collar workers left at CHQ are outsourced, meaning they aren't actual GM employees. As a result GM is not on the hook for any benefits or pensions and many other things. Its a lot cheaper for GM to employ people in Canada that way. A number of white collar workers aren't even in Oshawa, they telcommute from around the world (and thus are paid in their respective countries wages-much cheaper than here). A large number telcommute in from RenCen in Detroit. Of the remaining white collar workers in Oshawa; all at a minimum perform 2, 3 or more company functions as part of their job. Its a pretty bare bones operation.

The Flint comparison is too optimistic. Oshawa mayor John Gray has said it himself, That Oshawa is only reliant on GM for 20% of its workforce. The new big employers are the Ontario University of Technology (in the north end- they have never ending campus construction and boast the most out of area student enrolment for any university in Ontario, it was just announced that they are getting either a med school or faculty of dentistry-can remember). The new Ontario Cancer Care and Research facility on Simcoe north (just north of the Parkwood Estates), the Ministry of Finance in downtown Oshawa, the new Durham courthouses and Ministry of Attorney General buildings being built on the east side of Oshawa downtown (set top open next year), Durham College, Ontario Hydro's expansion and the soon to be built incinerator in Courtice (next door to Oshawa) as well there are pending moves by some technology and pharma companies to the new residential/commercial park that is being built in south Whitby(on the way to Oshawa) close to the lake. Oshawa and Durham region are in pretty good shape. I would buy real estate.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 09:09:57 pm by gta_driver »

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #57 on: June 04, 2008, 09:53:03 pm »
The Flint comparison is too optimistic

I was using dramatic effect in comparing Oshawa to Flint.  :)   But real estate is definitely going to soften considerably.  Speculators are going to be leaving the market immediately after this news.  If I was a GM employee slated for lay off I'd already have my house listed.  Then I'd rent.  Then when the lay off came I'd move to the Gaspe and take up wood carving.

Offline initial_D

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #58 on: June 04, 2008, 10:01:26 pm »
Ottawa wants to help GM build new car in Oshawa
 James Cowan, National Post with files from Canwest News Service and Reuters 
Published: Wednesday, June 04, 2008

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=563796

As hundreds of angry autoworkers protested the closure of General Motors of Canada Ltd.'s Oshawa, Ont., truck plant Wednesday, the federal government said it is interested in subsidizing the production of a new car at the facility.

Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said he was willing to use the government's $250-million Automotive Innovation Fund, designed to develop more fuel-efficient vehicles, to help start production of a third car at the plant.

"We need a third vehicle. I've already spoken with General Motors about that. We're going to stay on that as the federal government, and if we can participate in funding that innovation, then we're certainly going to be there," Mr. Flaherty told reporters in Ottawa.

"We want the auto sector to be a viable, sustainable sector in Canada. To do that, it has to be technologically innovative."

Meanwhile in Toronto, the Ontario government scrambled Wednesday to clarify the terms of its $175-million interest-free loan to the carmaker.

GM said on Tuesday it would close its plant next year and lay off 2,600 workers. The announcement caused a political headache for Ontario's Liberal government, which provided the company with a 50-year loan in 2005 aimed at bolstering the flagging automotive sector.

Opposition parties alleged the government failed to disclose the funds were a loan, not a grant. Critics also accused Sandra Pupatello, the Minister of Economic Development and Trade, of giving conflicting answers on the loan's length and the job guarantees contained within the agreement.

"They didn't know the boundaries of their own agreement," Jerry Oullette, Oshawa's Conservative MPP, said in an interview. "First they said it was a grant, then it was a loan. First it was for 30 years, then it was for 50 years.... And nobody seems to know how it was tied to jobs."

The government cannot disclose "commercially sensitive" information, Dalton McGuinty, the Premier, said. GM has admitted it will likely face close to $35-million in penalties on the loan for failing to meet agreed-upon employment targets. Under the arrangement, GM needed to maintain the equivalent of 16,000 jobs in Ontario over a 10-year period. No penalty will likely be levied until the plant closes next October and it is possible that the company could minimize the cost by hiking production at the Oshawa plant in the months leading up to the closure, sources familiar with the deal said.

While defending the government's need to remain closed-lipped about the deal's specifics, Mr. McGuinty admitted the government could have better communicated that the arrangement was a loan, not a grant. "We should have made that information available earlier," Mr. McGuinty said. "In fact, I think the loan puts us in a better light than what was categorized as a give away. There is a real cost to it ... but I think we could have managed that better."

GM announced the closure of the Oshawa plant as part of a shift toward cars and crossover-utility vehicles as high gasoline prices quell demand for trucks and SUVs. The company will also halt production at two plants in the United States and one in Mexico.

Members of the Canadian Auto Workers set up a blockade along the road leading to the GM headquarters early yesterday morning to protest what they call a blatant betrayal of a contract settlement reached two weeks ago. GM announced it would meet with the union on Friday in Detroit.


Offline ArticSteve

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Re: GM closing Oshawa truck plant
« Reply #59 on: June 04, 2008, 10:31:51 pm »
Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said he was willing to use the government's $250-million Automotive Innovation Fund, designed to develop more fuel-efficient vehicles, to help start production of a third car at the plant.

 :rofl:  Last month he saying Ontario is no place to invest.  A few months before that its not the Feds place to invest in Windsor's auto plants (note:  no Conservative seats in Windsor).

Now, just to save his own skin in Oshawa, he and the CONS are throwing a 1/4 BILLION into it TWO DAYS  :o after the announcement.  ::)

These guys are worse than the Trudeau LIBS and they were bad with throwing cash around.   
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 12:49:55 am by articsteve »