Topic: GM closing Oshawa truck plant

[barrie1]

Rrocket your income is directly effected even at your company in Windsor as you make parts for GM. I usually don't bite the hand that feeds me but you have quite often on here. Its the gas problems and not the axle strike that has driven the final nail into the full sized truck market. GM won't be the only company who has problems giving them away even with theirs among the best for fuel milage in the market place. Folks who really need them will still drive them including myself but many who don't will be unloading them  to smaller more fuel efficeint vehicles. P/U trucks will always still be here but just not as common. 

[tpl]

Rrocket your income is directly effected even at your company in Windsor as you make parts for GM. I usually don't bite the hand that feeds me but you have quite often on here. Its the gas problems and not the axle strike that has driven the final nail into the full sized truck market. GM won't be the only company who has problems giving them away even with theirs among the best for fuel milage in the market place. Folks who really need them will still drive them including myself but many who don't will be unloading them  to smaller more fuel efficeint vehicles. P/U trucks will always still be here but just not as common. 

Barrie you just said the magic words   "Folks who really need them will still drive them "     Emphasis on REALLY.  That is probably only 25% of the trucks out there, one factory not four. The people who need them for work  or towing will buy them for sure but probably a lot  fewer people will find they need a 5 litre engined vehicle for commuting

I would like to know if the small trucks  like the S10 and the Ford ranger are showing an increase in sales as the bigger trucks sell fewer.

I also think that if GM had found a 3 litre (turbo) diesel from somewhere, a good one not a POS and quickly got it into the "full size" trucks so they could advertise a full size truck that gets a real  all day and every day   30-35 mpg ( imperial)  they could have saved one of the plants.

[inco]

Interesting scenario TPL. I wonder if truck people are really more accepting of diesels than car people? I'm leaning to yes, but it would be neat to find out how many each of the big three currently sells compared to gas units.The Cummins has always been popular for Dodge.

IF there was a great little engine built years ago I think it might have made a difference with people easing into that segment. Maybe with fuel and engine improvements the higher mpg gains might lure people back. So which company is willing to try?

[tpl]

A large part of the rest of the world manages with PU trucks with  sub  2 litre engines gas or  diesel. They may not be fast, their 0-60 times are undoubtedly sluggish  but they serve countless millions of people as WORK vehicles.  I suggest that for most urban/suburban applications excepting tow trucks and so on, a 1/2 ton truck like that would do all that is required.   As I see it, the Ranger and S10 (S15?) with a 4 cylinder diesel is all the truck that *most* truck owners need.

Note I am not suggesting that the load carrying capacity be reduced but just maybe it is not necessary to do 8 second 0-60 with 1/2 ton of stuff in the back.

[quadzilla]

A protest just setup outside the plant.   

As a person that has gone through multiple mergers and downsizes I always knew that one day my turn would come and it did. I wasn't shocked as the writing was always on the wall.  How could these people not know this was going to happen? Personally, if I built a high fuel consumption vehicle I would be thinking, things will be getting tough in the future and that is now.

I understand that the people they use on the news are angry so they should out dumb things so I take that for whats its worth.

And what is with that guy that says a lot of the workers will now become alcoholics and domestic abusers? Doesn't really speed very highly for them.

I feel for a lot of the families as times can/will get rough.

[mrthompson]

Interesting scenario TPL. I wonder if truck people are really more accepting of diesels than car people? I'm leaning to yes, but it would be neat to find out how many each of the big three currently sells compared to gas units.The Cummins has always been popular for Dodge.

Most truck owners I've encountered are well aware of the benefits of diesel engines, but the additional purchase cost deters those who really don't NEED a diesel truck.  It can be several years (and many thousands of kms) before the fuel economy advantage of a diesel eclipses the cost premium over the 'standard' gas V8.

[tpl]

MrT   I guess its the "V8" I am arguing against.   With exceptions work trucks just need to be able to go places on roads with the bed full of stuff.    I suggest  that in Southern Ont which is pretty flat, the only people who need big engines are those that consistently tow something.

[mrthompson]

If a small 6 cylinder diesel engine was made the 'standard' engine in full size trucks, with an optional V8 or larger diesel, then I can see many people opting for the basic engine.  And a Ranger size truck with a diesel would be popular, IMO.

My FIL has a '95 V6 Sierra.  It does 99% of what he asks it to do.  It isn't fast but it doesn't need to be.  If something heavy needs to be towed, my BIL's 5.9L V8 Dodge Ram is used. 

[carburator]

It is soo hard when someone loses one of the best paying blue collar jobs in North America isn't it? Really makes me want to cry to see how much these GM workers earn .... and the fantastic benefits and severence packages they get too!

No wonder the cars are soo expensive.

Everyone (except GM) saw this coming with the high gas prices of the last several years so it is no surprise.

Anyways, the GM workers will be picked up by another companies plant like Ford. That always happens so they are never out of a job for too long.

[dougjp]

Everyone (except GM) saw this coming with the high gas prices of the last several years so it is no surprise.

Anyways, the GM workers will be picked up by another companies plant like Ford. That always happens so they are never out of a job for too long.

I see so many people not tuned in to the current realities of Ontario & Quebec manufacturing and the even worse upcoming economic situation, and wonder how could so many people ignore the numerous signs? Our dollar, the US consumer, steel PER CAR up $ 500-, transportation costs for heavy products way up, costs of doing business here vs. elsewhere. Just a small sample, the list is much longer than that. This is likely to be an economic train wreck that hasn't happened yet, but is in slow motion, and we are onboard with the seat belt on and can't loosen it.

Sorry carburator, you are one of those people, however you have lots of company. "That always happens so they are never out of a job...." is some other time, its NOT today.

[quadzilla]

No wonder the cars are soo expensive.

I disagree.

[tenpenny]

For whatever reason, GM (and they are not alone) makes large numbers of products that don't appeal to enough consumers.
Whether it's the price point, or the design, whatever.  People aren't buying enough of the products to keep the plants busy.

There are essentially three solutions to this:
-lower the cost of your existing products far enough to make them desireable, by various methods (including changing the manufacturing location to make it cheaper)
-start making more products that appeal to the market
-reduce your company size / product range / volume

[kelli]

I feel bad for these people and their families, but yes, it's no big surprise. Given that everyone i know is trying to figure out wtf their next vehicle is going to be if they're not going to get a truck or an SUV, it seems obvious that the plants will close.

I still haven't answered that question, btw.. i really don't want a car.

[Snowman]

You can buy a two year old extended cab short box 4X4 with low klicks for less than $17k in Sudbury right now. Next year it will be even better. I think I will pick one up for yard duty.

[tpl]

For whatever reason, GM (and they are not alone) makes large numbers of products that don't appeal to enough consumers.
Whether it's the price point, or the design, whatever.  People aren't buying enough of the products to keep the plants busy.

There are essentially three solutions to this:
-lower the cost of your existing products far enough to make them desireable, by various methods (including changing the manufacturing location to make it cheaper)
-start making more products that appeal to the market
-reduce your company size / product range / volume

It appears GM all doing all three as fast as they can. So it is difficult to fault their approach at this time...the fault is that they did not see this coming  a year ago or so.... or more likely, they did see it coming and decided not to act on it.

[The Fuzz]

.....the workers will now become alcoholics and domestic abusers...

Job security for me! 

[tpl]

Welcome back Fuzz!   Good to hear from you again.

[tenpenny]

I feel bad for these people and their families, but yes, it's no big surprise. Given that everyone i know is trying to figure out wtf their next vehicle is going to be if they're not going to get a truck or an SUV, it seems obvious that the plants will close.

I still haven't answered that question, btw.. i really don't want a car.

Don't worry, if you want a truck or an SUV, it seems that Toyota and Nissan will still have lots of options for you.

[quadzilla]

It appears GM all doing all three as fast as they can. So it is difficult to fault their approach at this time...the fault is that they did not see this coming  a year ago or so.... or more likely, they did see it coming and decided not to act on it.

I think its more of the latter. How could GM not see this coming as almost everybody on this board has written about this over the last year. But who knows why they didn't do anything about it? I'm sure somebody in that ivory tower has their reasons.

[tortoise]

If they had decided to act, what would they have done?  Closed the plant a year earlier? 

The economics seem pretty straightforward.  With the (relatively) rising loonie, Canada isn't the manufacturing dream it was 8-10 years ago.  That coupled with the current oil prices more or less renders the Oshawa plants unprofitable.  Sure diesels may have helped, but it would have been a band-aid at best.