Topic: Toyota managing to match Ford's quality.

[SkiBunny]

After reading the Camry owners' comments, the results of the Strategic Vision surveys will make a lot more sense.

Wow many new Camrys suck.  But we don't know whether those comments are posted by genuine Camry owners.  But I know that my father's new camry sucked.

[ArticSteve]

And Steve, here's your pic. Looks like a few of the trucks were moved yesterday though.

Not exact location, but where is that lot?  What state?  One thing for sure there is going to be great deals on used Taco engines, transmission, etc., relating to those years.

[ArticSteve]

 But I know that my father's new camry sucked. 

 

[Leviathan]

Toyota service departments are busy with regular service maintenance work, tune ups, brake work  and fixing recalls.

There, fixed it for you This recent recall seemed to pass quietly around here. Of course there is no need to fix the Tacomas since Toyota is taking them off the road....

[Sir Osis of Liver]

And Steve, here's your pic. Looks like a few of the trucks were moved yesterday though.

Not exact location, but where is that lot?  What state?  One thing for sure there is going to be great deals on used Taco engines, transmission, etc., relating to those years.

Funny man. Clark Toyota in Fredericton. Shot from the kitchen window of our office area, I figured you'd ask for a picture.

Corner of Kimble and Alison if you want to Google Earth it.

[Mitlov]

Forums? When was the last time you heard any forum resident be critical of the car they own?

Remember when I owned the Legacy?   

In all seriousness, car-specific forums (like VWVortex) are great for diagnosing and fixing problems.  Neither car-specific forums nor general car forums are any good at giving you an idea of what car is "the most reliable" or "the best."

EDIT:  Did I mention that, according to Strategic Vision, the Jetta WON?!  WAZZUP, FOOS!!!  Suckas...

[Baron von Raschke]

Gone are the days when FORD stood for Found On Road Dead

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Gone are the days when FORD stood for Found On Road Dead

Finally On Right Direction?

[Wolfe]

First and foremost it is marketing for Strategic Vision. Both Ford and Toyota are clients of theirs as are many other car companies. http://www.strategicvision.com/clients.php

That might have some merit if, say, Ford was their only client. But it looks like almost every manufacturer is their client. This would indicate that almost every manufacturer values their work.

  I wasn't trying insinuate that Strategic Vision is pimping for Ford and/or Toyota. I mentioned their many other automotive clients for exactly that reason.

My point is that Strategic Vision is putting out this survey to promote their own consulting business.

I just don't think this survey is meaningful period. There's just way too much emphasis on emotional reactions and opinion for it to be indicative of the merits of the cars themselves.

To dismiss emotion and opinion in the car purchase/ownership equation is to dismiss a huge part of reality. Virtually everything written on this web site involves emotional reactions and opinions. Should it just be dismissed out of hand as well? Obviously there is more to car ownership than its "merits."

I'm not dismissing emotion and opinion completely, but I'm fully capable of forming my own opinions. I don't need a survey from a marketing company to tell me what the herd thinks.

To pass off a survey of recent purchasers' feelings about their cars as a measure of "Total Quality" is absolutely ridiculous. It should be called the Strategic Vision "Total Warm and Fuzzy Thinking Feeling Index."

[Schmengie]

First and foremost it is marketing for Strategic Vision. Both Ford and Toyota are clients of theirs as are many other car companies. http://www.strategicvision.com/clients.php

That might have some merit if, say, Ford was their only client. But it looks like almost every manufacturer is their client. This would indicate that almost every manufacturer values their work.

  I wasn't trying insinuate that Strategic Vision is pimping for Ford and/or Toyota. I mentioned their many other automotive clients for exactly that reason.

My point is that Strategic Vision is putting out this survey to promote their own consulting business.

I just don't think this survey is meaningful period. There's just way too much emphasis on emotional reactions and opinion for it to be indicative of the merits of the cars themselves.

To dismiss emotion and opinion in the car purchase/ownership equation is to dismiss a huge part of reality. Virtually everything written on this web site involves emotional reactions and opinions. Should it just be dismissed out of hand as well? Obviously there is more to car ownership than its "merits."

I'm not dismissing emotion and opinion completely, but I'm fully capable of forming my own opinions. I don't need a survey from a marketing company to tell me what the herd thinks.

To pass off a survey of recent purchasers' feelings about their cars as a measure of "Total Quality" is absolutely ridiculous. It should be called the Strategic Vision "Total Warm and Fuzzy Thinking Feeling Index."

Agreed. The fanboys can keep this thread. Maybe it'll keep 'em busy for a while...

[Cord]

My point is that Strategic Vision is putting out this survey to promote their own consulting business.

That's funny. Sort of like when Honda puts out a car to promote their auto manufacturing business. The nerve!

[sailor723]

Aren't most of these type of surveys taken in the first few months of ownership? I think how people feel about their cars (and the number of repairs they have had) after 2/3/4 years is a far better indicator of quality.

[Baron von Raschke]

Aren't most of these type of surveys taken in the first few months of ownership? I think how people feel about their cars (and the number of repairs they have had) after 2/3/4 years is a far better indicator of quality.

 

When my wife bought her 06 G6 brand new she was in love with it and thought it was the bestest car ever.  However, after 2 years of owner ship and contless trips to the dealership for warranty items she absolutley hates it and can't wait to get rid of it.  She had a Cavalier before and it was also a lemon, so now she's sworn never to buy GM again.

If she had been surveyed at the beginning she would have given the G6 a glowing review.  If she was to be surveyed now the results would not be so pretty.

[Ex-airbalancer]

4.5 years, 147,000 on my truck (GMC) , I would buy another one, but probably SLT instead of of SLE

[Zoo]

Or, every manufacturer doesn't want to be excluded from the results because -like J.D. Power- these results makes great marketing claims.

Yes, I'm sure Toyota will be very excited to use these results to market their Camry and Corolla ("almost up to par with the Focus"  )

I trust forums, Lemonaide Guide, and Consumer Reports more because typically these are based on "real world" anecdotal experience.

Forums? When was the last time you heard any forum resident be critical of the car they own? It happens but its very rare. Didn't you ever notice that whenever someone asks, "What car should I buy?" that the answers almost always match the vehicle owned by the respondent? You should visit Edmunds and view their database of owner comments. After reading the Camry owners' comments, the results of the Strategic Vision surveys will make a lot more sense.

Actually, I see a bit of both on here (as well as the Hyundai, Kia, and other forums I hit. When people ask about Civics I say what I like and don't like about ours. I see both good and bad comments on these forums about almost any marque I am interested in. Of course there is always Barrie defending GM and Artic going to bat for Toyota. I can see past this though and get enough anecdotal evidence to get an idea how certain models are doing.

[SkiBunny]

But I know that my father's new camry sucked. 

 

No picture available because the new camry was towed away after a year never to return, much like a lemon gets squeezed and tossed into the trash.  It was his first, last and only toyota.  As bad as the camry was, he owned two successive Ford Thunderbirds when I was a child that were even worse.  Being a surgeon, he could quickly change cars whenever he got a lemon and write it off in his business, instead of having to hang onto a bad car like most of us must.

[ArticSteve]

 

[Wolfe]

My point is that Strategic Vision is putting out this survey to promote their own consulting business.

That's funny. Sort of like when Honda puts out a car to promote their auto manufacturing business. The nerve!

Your post might make sense if you had said "Sort of like when Honda puts out a television commercial to promote their auto manufacturing business."

When Honda builds and sells a car that is the product for which they are paid. When Strategic Vision published this survey it was at their own expense in order to draw attention to the marketing consulting they do for private clients. This published survey is not the same thing as their normal consulting products.

If Strategic Vision had indeed been paid to publish this survey by one of their clients (let's say Ford) it would be a Ford advertisement pure and simple.


But I though that you were trying to spin this survey as being legitimate evidence for the quality of Ford's cars.

[Frontier1]

People you should all know that you cannot come here and pick on Toyota's.  It's a sin, a crime, unacceptable.  Any thread which contains any amount of negativity against Toyota should automatically be deleted, Wing can you muster up some code that can do this for AS benefit? 

[johngenx]

Interesting study.  Consumer reports is still pretty much the only one that makes a serious attempt to track car reliability based on number of actual faults and apply a weighting to them based on seriousness of defect.

In their work, CR has found the V6 Camry to be worse than average reliability.  The four cylinder and hybrid are much better.

The best thing for consumers is the steepness of the curve now.  Since average reliability is so good now, it's very tough to be far out ahead.  The data is clustered tightly around the mean, and the mean is better than ever.

The Big Three won't stop the downward slide of their market share until they change their reputation for poor quality, but even more importantly, fill their showrooms with appealing models arranged in a well-thought-out line up that appeals to the "traditional" Honda/Toyota buyer.