Topic: Toyota managing to match Ford's quality.

[Cord]

This is now the second study that has Toyota matching Ford's quality. The first one was (rightly) viewed cautiously because it was commissioned by Ford. If JD power has similar findings then I think the trend will be clear.

On an individual model level, hopefully Toyota will be able to pull up their socks and get the Camry to at least match the Sebring.

Medium Car Segment
Rank Vehicle TQI Score
1 Volkswagen Jetta 911
2 Chevrolet Malibu 899
3 Ford Fusion 874
3 Toyota Camry Hybrid 874
5 Honda Accord Sedan 873
6 Subaru Impreza 866
Segment Average: 861
7 Mercury Milan 856
8 Nissan Altima 853
9 Toyota Prius 852
9 Hyundai Sonata 852
11 Subaru Legacy 846
12 Kia Optima 843
13 Saturn Aura 842
13 Chrysler Sebring Sedan 842
15 Dodge Avenger 841
16 Toyota Camry 836

http://www.strategicvision.com/press_release.php?pr=31

[Frontier1]

Hum...well while I can`t stand the way the Camry`s tranny shifts and the fact that the interior`s level of quality lacks I still think it`s a far better car that the Fusion.  My Altima`s ride is 10 times better than a noisy Fusion, I don`t know what people see in this car, I know it`s reliable but that`s it.  As for the Jetta, did the quality all of a sudden jump to the top, wow people have been waiting a long time for that one.

[Zoo]

I noticed a hesitation to shift on the 2002 Toyota Sienna I had a number of years ago. I assumed it wanted to hold gears to maximize fuel economy. It had the 3.0L V-6 which was a stellar powerplant and had the best fuel economy of any of the minivans I have used (the Astro obviously being the worst and the Ford Freestar being the thirstiest of the FWDers).

Looks like Toyota will have to keep their eye on the ball. Based on my experience with our Yaris and my parent's experience so far with their 2009 Corolla these vehicles still seem very well built.

[initial_D]

Toyota and Ford tied for leading in the most segments on Strategic Vision’s Total Quality Index™ (TQI), leading with three vehicles each. Toyota lead with its Yaris, 4Runner and Sequoia while Ford lead with the Edge, Mustang Convertible and F-250/350.

The Total Quality Index™ is the premier measure of new vehicle owner satisfaction. It asks buyers to rate all aspects of the ownership experience, from buying and owning to performance and driving. It is much more than simply counting problems.

...

IMO, it doesn't tell me anything worth while. A dealer willing to drop the price of the car will get more brownie points than a dealer who is a bit more firm on the price, changes the outcome of the survey, regardless of the quality of the car.

[Wolfe]

This is now the second study that has Toyota matching Ford's quality. The first one was (rightly) viewed cautiously because it was commissioned by Ford. If JD power has similar findings then I think the trend will be clear.

I'd say good for Ford if they're doing well but after a little reading on the Strategic Vision website I wouldn't exactly be citing their "study" as proof of much of anything. This survey is about consumers' opinions and the "emotional response that the experience creates" about their cars, not a study of any meaningful data about the cars themselves.

In addition to their "Total Quality Index" (TQI) they also put together a "Consumer Delight Index" (CDI) to tell us which cars are the most "delightful" every year.

http://www.strategicvision.com/press_release.php?pr=29


And does this sound like useful market research or a bunch of empty stereotypes and BS warmed over for sale to their corporate clients?

Differences that clearly stand out with African Americans are greater desires for success and the ability to show it. African Americans are much more likely to advocate vehicles that express their individuality and success to family and friends. Latinos have a greater concern for the impact on the environment while also exhibiting a greater desire to experience exhilarating driving and performance than others. Asian Americans have stronger demands for a balanced, complete vehicle performance and style that matches their lives.

“Understanding the hearts and minds of the ethnic buyer is relevant for the entire automotive industry as the likes and preferences of African Americans, Asian Americans and Latinos are more likely to shape opinions in the US,” reports Christopher Chaney, Director of Special Projects for Strategic Vision. “For example, the true or pure innovators (sometimes called early adopters) – those whose reactions usually best predict the success of new and innovative ideas and products – are more likely to be African Americans (11%) and Latinos (13%) while only 6.5% of Caucasians and Asians see themselves as true innovators. ”

http://www.strategicvision.com/press_release.php?pr=30


I don't think that I'd like to eat any apples that come from Strategic Vision's "Tree of ValueCentered Knowledge." 

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The electrical department for our company is currently housed in temporary facilities next to a Toyota dealership. In their back lot, there are two rows of used Tacomas. Every week or so another one shows up. I thought it curious, but never really gave it much thought.

Turns out these are some of the buyback Tacomas. Me and a co-worker looked them over at lunch. A few of them had grapefruit sized holes in their frames. One of the service guys was having a smoke break and told us that one of the local junkyards had over one hundred of them in their yard.

[tenpenny]

That study is every bit as useful as the JDPowers studies.

It's called marketing.

[Cord]

That study is every bit as useful as the JDPowers studies.

It's called marketing.

Marketing by who? For who's benefit? So those results don't reflect owner's experience? Is it inaccurate that Toyota is in the top position more than any other company? Or that Ford is?

So many questions for those that just don't like the results.

[ArticSteve]

The electrical department for our company is currently housed in temporary facilities next to a Toyota dealership. In their back lot, there are two rows of used Tacomas. Every week or so another one shows up. I thought it curious, but never really gave it much thought.

Turns out these are some of the buyback Tacomas. Me and a co-worker looked them over at lunch. A few of them had grapefruit sized holes in their frames. One of the service guys was having a smoke break and told us that one of the local junkyards had over one hundred of them in their yard.

 

[Mitlov]

Medium Car Segment
Rank Vehicle TQI Score
1 Volkswagen Jetta 911
2 Chevrolet Malibu 899
3 Ford Fusion 874
3 Toyota Camry Hybrid 874
5 Honda Accord Sedan 873
6 Subaru Impreza 866
Segment Average: 861
7 Mercury Milan 856
8 Nissan Altima 853
9 Toyota Prius 852
9 Hyundai Sonata 852
11 Subaru Legacy 846
12 Kia Optima 843
13 Saturn Aura 842
13 Chrysler Sebring Sedan 842
15 Dodge Avenger 841
16 Toyota Camry 836

http://www.strategicvision.com/press_release.php?pr=31

Whaddup, playa haters?!  VeeDub in da HAUS!!!

[Wolfe]

That study is every bit as useful as the JDPowers studies.

It's called marketing.

Marketing by who? For who's benefit? So those results don't reflect owner's experience? Is it inaccurate that Toyota is in the top position more than any other company? Or that Ford is?

So many questions for those that just don't like the results.

First and foremost it is marketing for Strategic Vision. Both Ford and Toyota are clients of theirs as are many other car companies. http://www.strategicvision.com/clients.php

Like I said, if Ford is building lots of high quality cars, good for them. I just don't think this survey is meaningful period. There's just way too much emphasis on emotional reactions and opinion for it to be indicative of the merits of the cars themselves.

[Cord]

First and foremost it is marketing for Strategic Vision. Both Ford and Toyota are clients of theirs as are many other car companies. http://www.strategicvision.com/clients.php

That might have some merit if, say, Ford was their only client. But it looks like almost every manufacturer is their client. This would indicate that almost every manufacturer values their work.

I just don't think this survey is meaningful period. There's just way too much emphasis on emotional reactions and opinion for it to be indicative of the merits of the cars themselves.

To dismiss emotion and opinion in the car purchase/ownership equation is to dismiss a huge part of reality. Virtually everything written on this web site involves emotional reactions and opinions. Should it just be dismissed out of hand as well? Obviously there is more to car ownership than its "merits."

[initial_D]

To dismiss emotion and opinion in the car purchase/ownership equation is to dismiss a huge part of reality. Virtually everything written on this web site involves emotional reactions and opinions. Should it just be dismissed out of hand as well? Obviously there is more to car ownership than its "merits."

Happiness counts, of course. However, those survey, hm ... research doesn't indicated how one car is better than the other. Nor does any of those number show how happy everyone will be in the next 3~5 years, well after the honeymoon period, sort of reality checks in; owning & operating the vehicle, really get to know their cars. Or even change vehicles, shop for the same brand again.

[Zoo]

First and foremost it is marketing for Strategic Vision. Both Ford and Toyota are clients of theirs as are many other car companies. http://www.strategicvision.com/clients.php

That might have some merit if, say, Ford was their only client. But it looks like almost every manufacturer is their client. This would indicate that almost every manufacturer values their work.

Or, every manufacturer doesn't want to be excluded from the results because -like J.D. Power- these results makes great marketing claims. I trust forums, Lemonaide Guide, and Consumer Reports more because typically these are based on "real world" anecdotal experience. The first 90 days tells me essentially nothing about a vehicle. 5 years and 100000+ kms on the other hand gives me a better barometer to work from (we typically keep our vehicles for at least 7-8 years).

I just don't think this survey is meaningful period. There's just way too much emphasis on emotional reactions and opinion for it to be indicative of the merits of the cars themselves.

To dismiss emotion and opinion in the car purchase/ownership equation is to dismiss a huge part of reality. Virtually everything written on this web site involves emotional reactions and opinions. Should it just be dismissed out of hand as well? Obviously there is more to car ownership than its "merits."

Agree with you on this one. I will buy a car that excites me less than another if the reliability is a lot better. If it is "apples to apples" reliability wise then emotion speaks for me. Many others though are the opposite; hence the cool, but sometimes unreliable Minis populating our streets.

[Cord]

Nor does any of those number show how happy everyone will be in the next 3~5 years ...

Well that is the old standby usually thrown out any time a domestic vehicle does well in any kind of survey. Conveniently, future events cannot be proven or disproven so all that is left is instilling doubt. Using the same type of supposition, is it likely that a vehicle that scores super high initially will then score poorly 3-5 years later? Or that a car that scores at the bottom initially will rise to the top after 3-5 years?

[initial_D]

I am not the type that cares about those numbers, I never even fill the survey forms out or answer the phone call, no fan boy here. But I do fill out the maker's shopping experience survey. 

What I am trying to say is that the research numbers mean next to zero to people like me. What I research for is how people feel after 3~5 years of ownership, and if they are willing to buy from the same make again. That is a more truer indication of a happy car ownership experience.

[Cord]

Or, every manufacturer doesn't want to be excluded from the results because -like J.D. Power- these results makes great marketing claims.

Yes, I'm sure Toyota will be very excited to use these results to market their Camry and Corolla ("almost up to par with the Focus"  )

I trust forums, Lemonaide Guide, and Consumer Reports more because typically these are based on "real world" anecdotal experience.

Forums? When was the last time you heard any forum resident be critical of the car they own? It happens but its very rare. Didn't you ever notice that whenever someone asks, "What car should I buy?" that the answers almost always match the vehicle owned by the respondent? You should visit Edmunds and view their database of owner comments. After reading the Camry owners' comments, the results of the Strategic Vision surveys will make a lot more sense.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

This April's Consumer Reports said that 93% of Ford models are average or better in their reliability survey. Only the V8 versions of the Explorer/Mountaineer and the Lincoln Mark LT were lower than average.

And Steve, here's your pic. Looks like a few of the trucks were moved yesterday though. 

[ArticSteve]

Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Ford showrooms are empty and Toyota's are busy.

Ford service departments are busy with HVAC, sensor, engine repairs.  Toyota service departments are busy with regular service maintenance work, tune ups and brake work.

All the useless marketing surveys for sales purposes can't save Ford from some of their dismal products like the Focus, 500/Taurus and Exploder.  They simply need better product.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Ford showrooms are empty busy and Toyota's are busy.

Ford service departments are busy with HVAC, sensor, engine repairs normal service work.  Toyota service departments are busy with regular service maintenance work, tune ups and , brake work, replacing cams, shuffling buy-back Tacomas and fixing myriad trim issues.

All the useless marketing surveys for sales purposes can't save Ford from some of their dismal products like the Focus, 500/Taurus and Exploder. information available won't change my mind. They simply need are better product.

FTFY