Author Topic: Somebody tell me why the Volvo owner/driver was not guilty of causing death?  (Read 8987 times)

Offline Railton

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13713
  • Carma: +243/-156
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2017 Infiniti QX60 Touring, 2010 Infiniti G37S 6M, 2020 Hyundai Kona 1.6T Trend
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/429336
Somebody explain to me why the Volvo owner/driver was not guilty of causing death?
They opened their car door into the path of a cyclist causing him to fall into the street where someone in a van crushed him. I can see how the van driver would not be guilty but the idiot who opened their door causing the accident in the first place?
Railton
« Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 01:42:46 pm by Railton »
Do you realize that in about 30 (updated as requested) years, we'll have millions of old ladies running around with tattoos?

Offline ktm525

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 15962
  • Carma: +117/-442
  • Just walk away!
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Land Rover LR4, Honda Ridgeline, Husqvarna FE501
Well isn't a bicycle considered a motor vehicle? Don't motor vehicles have to operate at a speed where they can safely react to an unexpected situation?  I think this is just an unfortunate situation. When I ride my bicycle downtown I NEVER ride close to parked cars for the car door reason. Do you check your side mirror everytime you get out of a car? I know I don't.

Offline tortoise

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 15060
  • Carma: +236/-453
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
So, if a car is driving down the street and somebody opens the door at the last second and the door gets taken off, that's the drivers fault?   

Quote
From the highway traffic act:

Opening of doors of motor vehicles

165.  No person shall,

(a) open the door of a motor vehicle on a highway without first taking due precautions to ensure that his or her act will not interfere with the movement of or endanger any other person or vehicle; or

(b) leave a door of a motor vehicle on a highway open on the side of the vehicle available to moving traffic for a period of time longer than is necessary to load or unload passengers.  R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 165.

You are responsible for opening your door safely.  The volvo driver is 100% at fault.

The reason the volvo driver wasn't charged is that we are a car-centric society.  It's the same reason drivers continually endanger cyclists without repercussion, the reason why bike lanes are often blocked and the reason why bike paths are so few and far between.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2008, 01:55:39 pm by tortoise »
Only the slow and dim know where they're going in life, and seldom is it worth the trip. - Tom Robbins.

Offline Craig

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 2173
  • Carma: +2/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Do you check your side mirror everytime you get out of a car? I know I don't.

I do when I'm parallel parked and I open it adjacent to traffic.

Offline quadzilla

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 23565
  • Carma: +391/-634
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2022 Rock'n Rolla Nightstalker
Great....another idiot kills a cyclist and they get off.  ::)

I'm at 5 (near) door prizes so far this year. My last one I was lucky that two cars before I got the near door prize the :censor: was driving in my bike lane which slowed me down to give her the evil eye which of course saved me from getting the door prize two cars ahead.

I have ridden down mountain through snow, over jumps and raced down roads at 50mph but none of that scare me more than the small stretch on Spadina in my little bike lane. Since traffic moves at a snails pace I pass about 200 cars on the right and just pray the entire section that nobody opens their door.

Offline dr_spock

  • Spock
  • *****
  • Posts: 12879
  • Carma: +46/-56
    • View Profile
Investigation is still ongoing according to the article.   Police says driver may not be charged.  They haven't said driver is not charged.  Witnesses accounts may change still change.

As a cyclist I always look for heads in the parked cars.  (I hate dark tinted windows.)   Exercise prudence and common sense when approaching parked cars.   You can't assume some little kid who doesn't know any better won't pop open the door without looking into your path. 

Offline aquadorhj

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 7607
  • Carma: +271/-265
    • View Profile
  • Cars: MB SLK 55, Lexus NX, E46 M3, Honda Fit, VW Jetta, VW Rabbit, Saturn SC, Nissan NX,
Unless the volvo driver intentionally opened his doors on the cyclist on open road, how the F#CK did cyclist run into his PARKED car?

When YOU park by the curb and open the door, is it common place that cars driving by will wipe your door off the frame? 

if so, then its driver's fault for not checking what's behind,
if not, then it's cyclists' fault for riding too close/carelessly.
there are too many cyclists that lane split during rush hours, and even though i'm a fairly attentive driver, there were occasions they snuck up on me and run past my mirrors without me ever noticing.

Death of a person is certainly tragic, but as we all know there are idiots in all groups of people, and just because a cyclist is dead doesn't automatically mean it was car-owner's fault. 

We don't have full story to lay blame on either party.

Motor-cyclists propagate the message that they should ride like they are invisible.  They KNOW they are invisible by car-public, and ride accordingly.

Driving thrills makes my wallet lighter.. and therefore makes me faster because i'm shedding weight... :D

Offline tenpenny

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 9854
  • Carma: +137/-305
    • View Profile
Do you check your side mirror everytime you get out of a car? I know I don't.

I do, because I was taught to do so.  My father pointed out that blindly opening your door is a great way to have it ripped off by a truck, or a car, or a bicycle, or to hurt some innocent pedestrian.  My wife and I are teaching our kids to look first, and open our doors carefully, so we also don't hit other cars in parking lots.  That's not to say they don't forget at times.

Opening your door without looking is negligence, and shows a blatant disregard for other people.  We, as members of society, have to stop being so self centered, and start considering other people.  You can't live your life by blindly doing whatever the hell you want to, no matter what selfish crap the baby boomer generation was brought up on (and yes, I fit that demographic).
My diesel car self-identifies as an electric vehicle.

Offline tortoise

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 15060
  • Carma: +236/-453
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Unless the volvo driver intentionally opened his doors on the cyclist on open road, how the F#CK did cyclist run into his PARKED car?

We don't have full story to lay blame on either party.


Did you even read the article?

Quote
The death of a Toronto cyclist, who was killed yesterday after his bike hit a car door that was being opened.

What else do you need?

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
The Volvo driver should be held accountable for the vehicle they are in control of even when it is at a stop. Not sure if the same would apply if it was a child passenger, where do you draw the line?

Offline ktm525

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 15962
  • Carma: +117/-442
  • Just walk away!
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Land Rover LR4, Honda Ridgeline, Husqvarna FE501
Great....another idiot kills a cyclist and they get off.  ::)

I'm at 5 (near) door prizes so far this year. My last one I was lucky that two cars before I got the near door prize the :censor: was driving in my bike lane which slowed me down to give her the evil eye which of course saved me from getting the door prize two cars ahead.

I have ridden down mountain through snow, over jumps and raced down roads at 50mph but none of that scare me more than the small stretch on Spadina in my little bike lane. Since traffic moves at a snails pace I pass about 200 cars on the right and just pray the entire section that nobody opens their door.

You do realize that passing cars like you described (lane splitting) is illegal. As a cyclist myslef who navigates through congested areas the final responsibility lies with me. Yes ,the driver of the car was in the wrong but unfortunately the cyclist is the one who is dead. As with riding a motorcycle a cylist has to assume that every car door could potentially open at any moment. Like I said before it is a terrible incident.

Offline quadzilla

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 23565
  • Carma: +391/-634
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2022 Rock'n Rolla Nightstalker
^^^ I am not lane splitting as I have my own dedicated bike lane.

This is how my side of the road (all traveling in the same direction) looks.

car | car | car | bike | curb | sidewalk


Offline safristi

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 46229
  • Carma: +471/-416
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: since the beginning of Saf timeLOTUS ELAN,STANDARD... 10, MG midget, MGB (2),Mazda Millennia,Hyundai Veloster and 1997 Ford Ranger 2014 Subaru Forester XT
I biked for years in Cities..never once got a "DOOR PRIZE"......and many of those times were in crowded British towns.as was said U don't hear of car doors being ripped off their hinges daily,maybe N America is not bike friendly or uncaring..i suspect the later....manners by car drivers and passengers are at an all time LOW...courtesy is a lost art.... :'( :'(...


Time is to stop everything happening at once

Offline Zombie

  • Auto Obsessed
  • ***
  • Posts: 962
  • Carma: +2/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • Brainszzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    • View Profile
Thank good I live in Ottawa and my commute to work doesn't involve any heavily traveled roads that you can also park on.
Usually I bike on the back or country roads. This is the loop that I do at lunch.
http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=1920940

Hardly any traffic, nice view, stinky cows and one Elk Farm.
MMMMMM Elk meat.
In a world where the dead are returning to life, the word "trouble" loses much of its meaning.


Offline goodsonr

  • Auto Obsessed
  • ***
  • Posts: 514
  • Carma: +18/-5
  • member
    • View Profile
Whether the ultimate fault lies with the motorist or not - the vast number of bicyclists have no clue how to safely operate on busy streets or are completely oblivious to the risks around them.

When we are out on family rides with the kids (7 and 10) *on the road*  so I can give them teaching moments -- I have come to realize its my wife who also requires educating.. about position in the lane - dangers of right-hooks -- no swerving in/out of parked cars - taking the lane if you need to be safe (no matter how mad the motorist gets) - etc. etc. etc.

We are all told to "drive defensively".  People should bicycle on the raod the same way but that rarely happens as not that many people even know what it means for a bike.

ron .. who tried to be nice the other day by moving right and not taking the lane near a red light at an intersection .. and almost got right hooked as a result...

Offline Trainman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 6598
  • Carma: +24/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Tree Whisperer
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2016 Subaru Forester XT; 2017 Infiniti QX50; 2012 Toyota RAV4 Base AWD, the daughters car
The Volvo driver should be held accountable for the vehicle they are in control of even when it is at a stop. Not sure if the same would apply if it was a child passenger, where do you draw the line?

We are teaching our kids to get out on the curb side, even thought they have to get across the vehicle to do so.  It is much safer for them and the traveling public that way.

And I always check before I open my roadside door.  I cycle too and know the hazards, so I try to look out for them.  I need to reinforce this concept with the kids.......

Lets all try to learn something from this tragic incident, like looking before opening a door.
2016 Subaru Forester XT

Offline Schmengie

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 2269
  • Carma: +27/-26
    • View Profile
Do you check your side mirror everytime you get out of a car? I know I don't.

I do, because I was taught to do so.  My father pointed out that blindly opening your door is a great way to have it ripped off by a truck, or a car, or a bicycle, or to hurt some innocent pedestrian.  My wife and I are teaching our kids to look first, and open our doors carefully, so we also don't hit other cars in parking lots.  That's not to say they don't forget at times.

Opening your door without looking is negligence, and shows a blatant disregard for other people.  We, as members of society, have to stop being so self centered, and start considering other people.  You can't live your life by blindly doing whatever the hell you want to, no matter what selfish crap the baby boomer generation was brought up on (and yes, I fit that demographic).

 :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: Couldn't have put it better myself, tenpenny. Looking before opening has prevented me from awarding a street-side 'door-prize' (love that analogy!)  more often than I can remember. However, I think bicyclists have to take more responsibility for their own safety. Too many of them ride like there aren't any rules at all. :popo:
' Saw an Alfalfa Romeeo go by - furrin sports car forty feet long, mebbe nine inches high.' - Charlie Farquharson

Offline quadzilla

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 23565
  • Carma: +391/-634
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2022 Rock'n Rolla Nightstalker
However, I think bicyclists have to take more responsibility for their own safety. Too many of them ride like there aren't any rules at all. :popo:

I agree with you but it is more than a two way street. Again I had to yell at people for driving into my bike lane and almost running me up the curb. I think they got my point as we both approached the red light (them about 2 car lengths ahead of me) and they actually ran the red light to avoid another confrontation. Of course, they could have just ran the red light because that is what some people just do.

Anyway....everybody has to take more responsibility for their own safety. Cars, bikes, walkers, bladers, joggers. Why can't we all get along?

Offline X-Traction

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Carma: +58/-96
  • member
    • View Profile
It's both surprising and great to see that so many people on a car/fan forum also ride bicycles a lot.

It is illegal to open a car door unless it is safe to do so.  There is a corpse to prove it was unsafe in this incident.  If the Toronto motorist is not fined, then motorists have absolutely no right to expect cyclists to ride closer than the length of an open door from parked cars.

It comes as no surprise to long-time urban cyclists that almost without exception, cyclists CANNOT get the authorities to take measures against motorists who endanger or harm cyclists.  Just go look at cycling websites.  They have entire forums about this.  ( http://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8 )  It is prejudice, plain and simple.  And when you add in the positive values of cycling, and the fact cyclists help pay for policing, the injustice is obscene.  I could relate the most outrageous instances of cyclists being bullied and the police handling it as though the cyclist was the problem.  Not surprisingly, this also leads to some cyclists taking things into their own hands when endangered or hit by a motorist. 

Motorist behavior toward cyclists often carries a deliberate message to GET OUT OF MY WAY.  Those same motorists then park and open their doors in front of the cyclists who have been pushed to the margins of the roads. The obvious irony is completely lost on the motorists' carbon-monoxide soaked brains.

You may be interested to know that in some European countries, there is a reverse onus of guilt in accidents between motorists and cyclists.  It is up to the motorist to prove the cyclist was to blame, and if they can't, the motorist is at fault.  And the motorist is almost always found at fault, especially incidents involving very young or very old cyclists.  The rationale is that motorists should anticipate cyclists to do unexpected things.  While I don't entirely agree with the rationale, I feel there should be a mechanism to force motorists to be especially careful about pedestrians and cyclists due to the motorists being both well protected and the ones throwing all the weight around.  That mechanism is some form of reverse onus.

I can't state this strongly enough.  Walking and cycling are important parts of a badly needed move toward sustainable lifestyles, and people aren't going to walk and cycle until it's reasonably safe to do so.  Odd, but the police thus have a role in climate change.

I remember when we lived in Europe around 1960, while pulling into a parking spot in a Dutch city, my father bumped a cyclist in the adjacent bicycle lane.  We paid up on the spot for the cyclist's damages because we knew we would be found at fault regardless of the circumstances.

Last fall, I ran into a suddenly opened car door, on the curb side of the car.  Fortunately I was aware of the possiblility and was riding at reduced speed.  I was unlucky to run into the rather hard and sharp end of the door, but I was lucky to land on grass, avoiding concrete and phone poles.  While I expected a 50/50 allocation of blame, I was found 0% to blame.  I had a misapprehension about the legality of passing on the right.  Regardless of what motorists think about cyclists passing on the right, the fine print of the law is that it is legal to do so even in the same lane if there is room and it can be done safely.  So I ended up being offered by ICBC a tidy sum of money for a messed up knuckle.  I didn't have to pay for the motorist's damaged door.  I turned down offers for my bike's damage, since they weren't worth the paperwork.

I felt validated by the fact my existence as cyclist was recognized for a change.  At least by the insurance company.  The police (Burnaby RCMP) refused to even take a report.  Probably so accident statistics don't reveal that there might be a problem.  The police won't do anything unless there is an injury, and they say there is not an injury unless an ambulance attends.  So if you're struck while cycling, lay there until an ambulance comes, regardless of the immediate cost to society.  That's just STUPID, but cyclists did not create these rules.
And some cretins think I hate cars.

Offline initial_D

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13022
  • Carma: +30/-50
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
It is a tragic accident that could of prevented. I can't see how the Volvo driver can be charged, prosecuted and convicted for the death of the cyclist. The police can issue the driver a traffic ticket in this case, and to actually have him/her convicted in the courts will be rather difficult and a very long process just to go thru it.

No doubt the driver does have a share of the blame for this accident, but to dragged this person and his family thru the court process is rather crude, IMO.