Author Topic: Focus gets facelift for 2009  (Read 8828 times)

Mitlov

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2008, 10:24:29 am »
this is the reason NA ford is so utterly lost.   they should just bring the euro focus and euro mondeo with petrol and diesel options.  saturn seems to have figured it out.

And how well are the Aura and Astra selling in Canada, or North America for that matter?  Are they outselling the Fusion and Focus?  Are they even in the same ballpark as the Fusion and the Focus?  No?  That's what I thought.

What is the advertising/marketing difference in the States between Aura/Astra & Fusion/Focus.

Would it not be a better to compare Aura or Saturn in general to Mercury, as they are going after a slightly different demographic,niche market, more upscale.

If you compare Aura to the Milan & Sable, then the Aura is outselling even when totalling sales numbers for both Milan and Sable.

The Aura had a huge marketing blitz here in the States when it came out.  Maybe not the Astra, but the Aura certainly did.  Didn't help the car much.

And I don't think that you can compare Saturn to Mercury.  Mercury sales are in the absolute gutter, and for a good reason: you can get the absolute exact same car for $1000-$2000 less at a Ford dealership.  The same is not true for Saturn.  So I don't think we can learn anything by comparing Saturn sales to Mercury.

The original poster's point was that "right" thing to do is to offer Euro-market cars, unchanged, in North America, and the "wrong" thing is to have unique models here.  Maybe that's the right thing to do to please enthusiasts, but that's certainly not the right thing to do to maximize sales.

Mitlov

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2008, 10:32:14 am »
the astra just came out.  the focus has been out for years and they sell well because ford basically gives them away as fleet vehicles.  why not use the euro version of the focus?  it is a much nicer design.

The 2008 Focus hasn't been out for years, has it?  Maybe the "platform" is the same, but 99% of consumers don't know what a platform is and would think the car is all-new from looking at it, and 99% of dealers are probably telling them it's all-new.  So I don't think there's anything wrong with comparing sales between the 2008 Focus and the 2008 Astra.

Why not use the Euro version of the Focus?  Because it's not what most North American consumers would want.  It's a far more expensive car and getting worse with the strong Euro (think VW Rabbit pricing or worse), it wasn't designed to meet North American crash tests, North Americans still overwhelmingly distrust diesel cars, there's no trunk (most North Americans still prefer sedans to hatches), and there are no front cupholders (something North American reviewers are absolutely flaming the Astra for).  It would probably fail to meet sales expectations for the same reason that the Ford Contour failed, and the Aura is currently failing.

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2008, 11:16:56 am »
It would probably fail to meet sales expectations for the same reason that the Ford Contour failed, and the Aura is currently failing.

Ah come on....the Ford Contour had cup holders....well if they weren't broken already from using them.

* Any Contour owner will know all about this.

Offline mmret

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2008, 11:33:53 am »
The cupholders thing strikes me as being really shortsighted as far as minor tuning required to get a car ready for a specific market, not any inherent problem with bringing over Euro models.

I mean its not THAT hard to re-engineer the center console is it?
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Offline MKII

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2008, 11:41:00 am »
Well my euro Focus has 2 front cup holders and 2 more in the rear centre arm rest.

Hey if America prefers the redesigned 2008-09 Focus over the euro Focus, so be it. Just glad I do not have to see it as a Focus over here.

Just hope and pray none of this N.A. Focus DNA design makes it into the next 2010/11 redesign which is supposedy a one world Focus. :nono:

Mitlov

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2008, 11:45:19 am »
The cupholders thing strikes me as being really shortsighted as far as minor tuning required to get a car ready for a specific market, not any inherent problem with bringing over Euro models.

I mean its not THAT hard to re-engineer the center console is it?

Do you remember the indignation--nay, fury--across internet car forums when it was revealed that GM would be using a North-American-specific interior in the Aura, instead of using the Opel Vectra's interior?

Offline mmret

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2008, 11:46:48 am »
The cupholders thing strikes me as being really shortsighted as far as minor tuning required to get a car ready for a specific market, not any inherent problem with bringing over Euro models.

I mean its not THAT hard to re-engineer the center console is it?

Do you remember the indignation--nay, fury--across internet car forums when it was revealed that GM would be using a North-American-specific interior in the Aura, instead of using the Opel Vectra's interior?

You're sidestepping here, but perhaps that was due to latent anguish over what most GM interiors are like? :)

Parents rented an Impala. Bleh. Quiet though.

Mitlov

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2008, 11:58:46 am »
Do you remember the indignation--nay, fury--across internet car forums when it was revealed that GM would be using a North-American-specific interior in the Aura, instead of using the Opel Vectra's interior?

You're sidestepping here, but perhaps that was due to latent anguish over what most GM interiors are like? :)

Parents rented an Impala. Bleh. Quiet though.

It's easy to reengineer the center console, though in doing so, the vocal online masses who were promising to buy your cars if only you brought them over unchanged from Europe become Chicken Littles.

It's not easy to take a European-market mass-market car and sell it profitably in North America, due to exchange rates and the inherently more expensive designs used in Europe.

It's very very hard to take a European-market mass-market car and make it appeal to the American daily driver, because we have different needs.  People don't need to travel nearly as far in Europe, and they travel on much smoother roads, but the roads are narrow and parking is nonexistent.  The roads tend to be quite twisty, so handling is critical.  This leads to the popularity of very small, tightly-suspended hatchbacks.

This is NOT what most North Americans deal with.  We have wide roads with plenty of parking at our destinations, but we have to travel much further (I know people who live 30-40 miles from their job).  This makes room to stretch out inside the car more important.  The roads are straight, but poorly maintained, so that "taut and agile" European suspension is just plain jarring for your North American non-enthusiast.  In light of the roads we have here, the popularity of the softly-sprung midsize sedan shouldn't be a surprise.

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2008, 12:06:49 pm »
Can I suggest a LEASE LOAN program(ME) fer say 2 Million Americans to spend a Year in Euro and VICE VERSA...to settle this QUANDRY????....DRIVING ALL the TIME of COURSE...in Local Vehicles............ ???
Time is to stop everything happening at once

Offline Schmengie

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2008, 02:01:24 am »
I've only seen a couple of 'new' Focuses (Focii?) around here, and it's just as well. Fugly.
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Mitlov

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2008, 02:02:52 am »
I've only seen a couple of 'new' Focuses (Focii?) around here, and it's just as well. Fugly.

Focuses definitely outnumber Versas around here.  And while looks are subjective, I don't think they look any worse than Versas in person.

Offline MKII

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2008, 06:17:06 am »
Do you remember the indignation--nay, fury--across internet car forums when it was revealed that GM would be using a North-American-specific interior in the Aura, instead of using the Opel Vectra's interior?

You're sidestepping here, but perhaps that was due to latent anguish over what most GM interiors are like? :)

Parents rented an Impala. Bleh. Quiet though.

It's easy to reengineer the center console, though in doing so, the vocal online masses who were promising to buy your cars if only you brought them over unchanged from Europe become Chicken Littles.

It's not easy to take a European-market mass-market car and sell it profitably in North America, due to exchange rates and the inherently more expensive designs used in Europe.

It's very very hard to take a European-market mass-market car and make it appeal to the American daily driver, because we have different needs.  People don't need to travel nearly as far in Europe, and they travel on much smoother roads, but the roads are narrow and parking is nonexistent.  The roads tend to be quite twisty, so handling is critical.  This leads to the popularity of very small, tightly-suspended hatchbacks.

This is NOT what most North Americans deal with.  We have wide roads with plenty of parking at our destinations, but we have to travel much further (I know people who live 30-40 miles from their job).  This makes room to stretch out inside the car more important.  The roads are straight, but poorly maintained, so that "taut and agile" European suspension is just plain jarring for your North American non-enthusiast.  In light of the roads we have here, the popularity of the softly-sprung midsize sedan shouldn't be a surprise.

I think you need to travel more of Europe. You make it sound as if the whole place is some old town with cobbled , narrow streets.
My god man there are lots of highways, large shopping malls with hmm parking lots, lots of straight, wide, and not well maintained highways. And with downtown and suburbs being very high real estate zones, many people live 30-40 miles from their jobs as well.

The main difference I see between the American consumer and Euro consumer is the length of time on average owners expect to  keep their vehicles. In general as far as I can tell over here a car is not a throw away item after 60,000 miles of useage, hence the demand for better engineered vehicles.  And the other difference is the useability of the vehicle, hence so many wagons, hatches and bunches of CUVs.

Oh and one other thing that has changed, the bloody euro drivers are drinking and eating in the car pretty much the same as good ole North Americans.

For sure the American consumer on average wants a larger comfy vehicle, but this trend seems to be fading with the high cost of fuel and the stats show B and C class segment with the highest growth in sales in the USA.

As Kevlar points out Ford has a very bad consumer perception, and he is just saying that maybe if Ford was to offer the consumers in North America what the rest of world is offered chances are consumers just might put a Ford car on the shopping list. Of course Ford N.A. would have to produce these cars in North America to make any financial sense, and Americanize some bits and pieces such as dynamics etc.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 07:31:01 am by MKII »

Offline Thinking Out Loud

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2008, 08:29:12 am »
I've read/heard/seen many comments on how part of the success of import brands is due to their lack of product duplication.  Ford, in Canada, is essentially structured similarly to the imports now with just Ford/Lincoln (Toyota/Lexus) without a Mercury version splitting sales.

If this simple answer were true, then Ford has cut costs in brand redundancy in their product line up and should be more profitable (in Canada, anyway) and sell more units - but product still rules.

Direct to NA mass-market transplants from international sources by the Domestic 3 have had mixed-results in acceptance - the Merkur brand, the LS, the Contour, Catera etc etc were loved or hated whole or part due either to:

1 perceptions of not enough change to suit NA
2 perceptions of too much change to suit NA

The Astra will be an interesting test - but I believe if the entire Opel brand were transplanted to NA that it would substantially raise product awareness over the Saturn brand. 

I think Ford did what it could under the circumstances when it came it's fork in the road 24-36 months ago with it's financial challenges with what to do with the Focus. New not necessarily meaning better - Chrysler is rolling out all sorts of new product to mixed reviews - they went the safe route to remain financially prudent.

If, however, they wind up going Chapter 11 to restructure - then they should have gone out guns-a-ablazing and spent whatever wasn't nailed down in a Fiesta & euro Focus launch for 2008 over (another) refreshening.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 08:37:32 am by Thinking Out Loud »
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Offline MKII

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2008, 08:49:44 am »
@ Mitlov regarding Astra sales compared to Focus

Correct me please if I am wrong,

Number of Saturn dealerships USA 430
Number of Ford dealerships USA 4,140

I am not a math wizard or such but my common sense tells me that Saturn will have one hell of a mountain to climb to be able to outsell a car that has quite an advantage as far as exposure, not to mention large incentives as well.

If I remember correctly GM Saturn division stated in the early press releases that expected sales target for the Astra was 20-40,000 units per year.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2008, 09:38:07 am by MKII »

Offline Spheric

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2008, 10:16:52 am »
I think you need to travel more of Europe. You make it sound as if the whole place is some old town with cobbled , narrow streets.

...complete with windmills, Bavarian oompah music, wandering vampires and annual crusades to liberate the Holy Lands....  :rofl2:

Mitlov

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2008, 10:26:12 am »
I think you need to travel more of Europe. You make it sound as if the whole place is some old town with cobbled , narrow streets.
My god man there are lots of highways, large shopping malls with hmm parking lots, lots of straight, wide, and not well maintained highways. And with downtown and suburbs being very high real estate zones, many people live 30-40 miles from their jobs as well.

It's all relative.  Highways that seem wide and straight in rural Scotland are, compared to highways in rural Wyoming, narrow and twisty.  Parking lots that are huge, and with huge spaces, by English standards are quite small by Texas standards.

Quote
The main difference I see between the American consumer and Euro consumer is the length of time on average owners expect to  keep their vehicles. In general as far as I can tell over here a car is not a throw away item after 60,000 miles of useage,

If you think most American consumers abandon vehicles after 60,000 miles, you don't know middle America very well.  Since it's typical for an American to drive 12,000 miles per year, that means that people would throw away cars when they're five years old.  The fact that the roads here are absolutely dominated by cars which are over five years old can't be reconciled with your theory.

Quote
hence the demand for better engineered vehicles.

If European brands are so much "better engineered" and last so much longer than the cars currently available in the US market, why did most of the Italian, French, and Eastern European brands that quit the North American market due so because of flagging sales caused by reliability problems?  Skoda didn't fail here because it was so much more reliable than a Ford or Chevy.

Mitlov

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2008, 10:40:05 am »
I think you need to travel more of Europe. You make it sound as if the whole place is some old town with cobbled , narrow streets.

...complete with windmills, Bavarian oompah music, wandering vampires and annual crusades to liberate the Holy Lands....  :rofl2:

It's remarkable to me, given how much people love to stereotype Americans on this website, that I make the simple comment that American roadways tend to be wider, straighter, and more damaged than their European counterparts, and I'm jumped on as some sort of ignorant hick who believes in nothing but folktales and legends.

Offline Schmengie

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2008, 11:56:16 am »
I've only seen a couple of 'new' Focuses (Focii?) around here, and it's just as well. Fugly.

Focuses definitely outnumber Versas around here.  And while looks are subjective, I don't think they look any worse than Versas in person.

I saw a blue '08 Focus Coupe identical to the picture in a mall parking lot yesterday and thought it looked kind of dumpy, for lack of a better word. More like a 2-door sedan than a coupe. The sedan is better-looking IMO but nowhere near as attractive as the Euro model. I think Ford will regret not having a Focus hatchback or wagon, since versatility is a big deal in this segment. They'd likely be better-looking than the two current models as well.

Those fake chrome side vents are truly tacky , at least Ford got rid of those for '09.

Offline Schmengie

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2008, 12:08:11 pm »
I think you need to travel more of Europe. You make it sound as if the whole place is some old town with cobbled , narrow streets.

...complete with windmills, Bavarian oompah music, wandering vampires and annual crusades to liberate the Holy Lands....  :rofl2:

It's remarkable to me, given how much people love to stereotype Americans on this website, that I make the simple comment that American roadways tend to be wider, straighter, and more damaged than their European counterparts, and I'm jumped on as some sort of ignorant hick who believes in nothing but folktales and legends.

This is a CANADIAN website, Mitlov. If you don't like the occasional 'stereotype' you perceive here, I'm sure there are lots of stereotype-free American automotive sites out there - NOT. Canadians may be somewhat prejudiced when it comes to Americans, but given the state of the world these days and how much responsibility America has for that, I don't think you can blame us. By and large, I think most posters here are pretty fair minded.

Offline initial_D

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Re: Focus gets facelift for 2009
« Reply #39 on: May 21, 2008, 12:26:44 pm »
I think the Focus needs more than a face lift,  ... beauty is only skin deep, but ugliness is bone deep.