Topic: diesel more mainstream..when?

[21Rouge]

Our next vehicle (calendar year 2009) will be our last that will have a third row of seats. We will likely buy GM (Visa points + GM family discount); (approx $40k tops, taxes included); probly Outlook/Acadia/Traverse.

But of course one cant ignore fuel economy issues.

When will GM have diesels for family vehicles? Arent diesels part of the solution to the fuel economy problem?

 

[barrie1]

I am not totally sure what date but we do know that GM is designing a new Engine for this size of vehicle and it most certainly will be a Diesel for sure. I strongly suspect it will be worth the wait. 

[Zoo]

Opal has some nice diesels over in Europe. Why we don't get more diesels is beyond me. With our stop and go driving we could use the torque even more than those in Europe!

I would love a diesel! Give me a Yaris with a diesel or one of the Kia Rondos with the diesel they have in the UK!

[tpl]

IMHO one advantage of diesels with their low revving nature and the shape of their torque curves that they make it easier to  drive more smoothly and gently. No drag starts for instance.  Having to think a bit more before a passing manoeuvre and so on.  All the above lead to even better economy.
I do hope we will get more and more diesels here soon.

[quadzilla]

When either Toyota or Honda put one in their cars.

[21Rouge]

When either Toyota or Honda put one in their cars.

True.

[Calbrez]

I thought Honda had announced that they'd be selling them in 2009??

It is getting ridiculous. We're almost at the point where diesels would make a lot of sense..

I have been waiting for them myself... i refuse to by a VW so i'll keep waiting

[Ex-airbalancer]

One of the problems now, is diesel is almost a $1 more a gallon in the US, people are talking about selling their TDIs because of the price of diesel
I think the this will slow auto makers from make an approved diesel engine for NA

[Vil]

One of the problems now, is diesel is almost a $1 more a gallon in the US,

Diesel is about 50 cents more a gallon in the US right now and the gap is narrowing.

[Diesel conspiracy]

re: Diesel conspiracy..... 

Gentlemen!

1) It was not so long time ago, that the diesel was 50% of the gas. Reason? Diesel is
     much simpler to produce than gas. They have increased the cost of diesel to match
     the gasoline prices. Now, the cost of diesel is even higher than gasoline (.... since the diesel
     cars have better milleage).....!!!!

Audi said that the reason for them to bring their super duper Diesel here is: the Americans
are now ready for it. We were ready for it last 30 years!!!Who does not want to save money?
Tell me? Now it came so far that we are talking "no money", but mankind survivor on this planet.

2) I do not understand, where the difference is between European drivers and American, when it comes
    to save the energy, lower the pollution and still manage to enjoy your car....Are they made from
    different dough? No, they are not! They make their politicians listen to them much better than here.
    But this is not the only one difference!

3) I knew a cab driver here, who 17 years ago had to sell his cab license to pay for his diesel car repairs.
    That diesel engine was made here in North America. The Manufacturer - in spite of the mechanic's
    proofs - that the engine was a lemon, ignored the whole thing. I believe this was another factor, slowing the
    diesel train.

What is puzzling, that other car manufacturers who sell diesel in Europe ( ie: Lexus!, Honda ) are not selling it here.

The Smart car, which was sold in Canada with diesel, now (in 2008) is sold with gasoline engine!!!

"Smart without Diesel is Stupid!"

4) Another point here - which is allowing the conglomerates to do what they want -might be the American buyer.
   ( Raising the cost of diesel above the gas prices, as one example, selling gas at fixed prices accross
   the continent without any punishement, not paying taxes from oil ( DO NOT MIX IT WITH GAS) - that
   belogs to all citizens, since it is natural resource of the country and not THE individual incorporated
   company. (.... read " Who owns America")

5) ALSO:Just go to parks and see the mess people leave behind them!
   Paper cups, plates, paper, plastic and glass bottles...It looks like the people in general have the motto:
   "after us = the flood"...they do not care about the future of this country, continent, EARTH!
   
   
Gentlemen, I have to go...all the best!

[tpl]

You are over the 10 exclamation point limit for a first post.     


welcome to the forum anyway. 

[random006]

You are over the 10 exclamation point limit for a first post.     


welcome to the forum anyway. 

I! didn't know!! that!!! there was!!!!! a limit!!!!!!!   

You're right though.  It does sound like one of those vaguely politicized tracts taken from some fringe organization's website.

Regardless, as tpl said:  Welcome to the Nuthouse, er, forum.  Yeah that's it, forum! 

[G0dspd]

One of the problems now, is diesel is almost a $1 more a gallon in the US, people are talking about selling their TDIs because of the price of diesel
I think the this will slow auto makers from make an approved diesel engine for NA

even though the price of diesel is close to regular petrol they still get much better mileage.  i had a 320 bmw diesel in europe touring france and got 1400km-1500km per tank.     

Diesel is more expensive than "regular" fuel but there's also the initial price of a vehicle with diesel engine.  The new Jetta TDI starts at 26 750$ (Reg: 21 975$) but I don't know how much is the diesel option since it probably has more options.

[G35X]

Diesel conspiracy wrote: Diesel is much simpler to produce than gas….  Is this true?  Both gas and diesel are produced from the same crude using the same process.  In the process of producing one you produce the other automatically.  If the demand ratio between the two is not balanced with the production ratio, the surplus gets additional processing, such as cracking of diesel, or connecting gas molecules together back to make diesel.  Anyway, if the energy content per volume (litre) is the basis for price calculation, diesel should be priced about 15% more than gas.

I mentioned this several times already but, popularity of diesel passenger automobiles in Europe is not because diesel is a better fuel; rather it is because people there are more economy-minded.  After several years of driving they can recoup the price difference of diesel automobiles by the saving from better fuel economy (and lower fuel cost in France and some other countries).  Diesel is not an ideal fuel. Its exhaust is dirtier than that of stoichiometrically burning gas engine.  By its nature diesel engine runs on a very wide range of fuel/air mixture ratio from very lean (NOX) to very rich (soot, hydrogen and raw hydrocarbon).  This is the reason why automakers are having difficult time to make their diesel engine automobiles meet the NA regulations.  Meeting the regulations is possible but costly.

Of course diesel engines have their virtues (compared to gas engines):
-  Higher compression ratio means better usage of heat energy in the combustion chamber; more heat energy is converted to mechanical force per combustion.
-  Higher compression ratio means longer piston stroke, therefore, longer crank arm length; more torque along with the above higher force.
-  Higher torque means less rpm to obtain a given power
-  Low rpm means less loss in friction; mechanical loss increases exponentially by speed.
-  No throttle valve to impede intake air flow; low pumping loss.
-  Any more?

[Vil]

Diesel is more expensive than "regular" fuel but there's also the initial price of a vehicle with diesel engine.  The new Jetta TDI starts at 26 750$ (Reg: 21 975$) but I don't know how much is the diesel option since it probably has more options.

The 2009 Jetta TDI will start @ $24,275 with a 6-speed manual (the 2.5 has a 5-speed)

[Ice]

I thought Honda had announced that they'd be selling them in 2009??

It is getting ridiculous. We're almost at the point where diesels would make a lot of sense..

I have been waiting for them myself... i refuse to by a VW so i'll keep waiting

Still apparently on track...either the CR-V or the Accord (I forget which) is supposed to be getting their new DTEC diesel engine last I heard.  That was months back when they had the engine on display.

[Triple Bob]

When people realise we need as much global dimming as global warming! 

Honda are really big into diesels here, I can't believe they don't sell them over there..?  Same with Toyota, they have one of the cleanest diesel engines around!

[Diesel conspiracy]

Translated from european web site, recomending, when to use diesel engine and when gas:

Used for:            City      Family/Work      Buisness trips
KM yearly:         15 000       40 000 – 60 000       over 60 000 
Miles:                                             10 000 +-            25 000 - 38 000                over 38 000
Type:            Gas      gas/diesel      diesel
(kW)             50 - 80       80 – 110       100 – 180
Engin size in L:         1,0 – 1,6    1,4 – 2,0               2,0 - 3,0

Would this apply to North America?

[tpl]

Translated from european web site, recomending, when to use diesel engine and when gas:

Used for:            City      Family/Work      Buisness trips
KM yearly:         15 000       40 000 – 60 000       over 60 000 
Miles:                               10 000 +-        25 000 - 38 000          over 38 000
Type:                   Gas              gas/diesel      diesel
(kW)             50 - 80       80 – 110       100 – 180
Engin size in L:        1,0 – 1,6       1,4 – 2,0               2,0 - 3,0

Would this apply to North America?

No. If for no better reason than there are practically no small engines in cars here ( 1.0 litre to 1.6) because of a) automatic transmissions and b) the cars are all bigger and heavier here.  The class of cars that have the 1.0-1.6 litre engines in euland  are just not available here with few exceptions.  ( Fit, Yaris, Aveo)

[Calbrez]

NA is still navel gazing thinking gas guzzling SUVs are cool.   well the party is going to be over soon.    can't wait to see the day when india and china start burning fossil fuels like we do.  the whole world will be under a cloud.  watch beijing this summer and remember these facts.    china's per capita energy consumption isnt even remotely close to ours yet.   guess who is the clear leader in the energy consumption department?  thats right, canada and the good old US of A.  and as for c02 emissions in particular?   merica contributes over 20 percent of the worlds c02 emissions while china is at 18 percent.  yet china has over 4 times the population of merica.  india has a similiar population but isnt even close at 5 percent c02 emissions. what is going to happen when these 2 countries really ramp it up?   i was there 4 months ago and the city of beijing is permanently under a thick haze of pollution.  actually so was shenzhen, guangzhou, chongching, shanghai and hk.  these developing countries will be needing green solutions soon and who is going to supply them with these solutions?   right now it seems merica and canada are too busy buying SUVs.

Canada is -40C for ha;f the year so we'll always be in the lead wen it comes to energy consumption, and for good reasons...

It never ceases to amaze me how how so many people continue to take this so-called global warming crisis as though it were gospel

human Co2 output is currently less than 0.5% of the global total...

the vast majority of Co2 comes from the oceans!

global warming is a farce... although poor air quality is a serious concern.. so lets reduce the particulate matter and stop stressing about green-house gas!