Author Topic: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?  (Read 7614 times)

carburator

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Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« on: April 11, 2008, 08:39:37 am »
Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?  Why do they always blab about that. You don't hear anyone else blabbing to the public when their contracts come up for negotiations ! All it does is produce unnecessary stress on everyone...especially the public  :thumbdown: TTC

Offline Allen

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2008, 08:48:21 am »
TTC = Take The Car ;D

Offline jcon

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2008, 08:49:16 am »
I would say that the thousands of people that use the TTC each day care. I would also say that all the people on roads driving, facing an increase in traffic, decrease on parking availability care as well. I might even say that tax payers in TO care because any contract is paid by the public.

So beyond the tax paying public, the riders, and drivers, not many people care. Though they probably care when recess is and if their parents put a treat in their lunches today.

Offline tpl

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2008, 08:53:01 am »
Although I don't live in TO anymore, I care 'cos of the reasons Jcon gives in his 1st paragraph.

But I do think that if the union is particularly awkward that it might be time to have several competing  PRIVATE ENTERPISE bus companies in the whole GTA area and I mean intra-urban services not inter-urban
The most radical revolutionary will become a conservative the day after the revolution.

baumer00

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2008, 09:44:07 am »
Although I don't live in TO anymore, I care 'cos of the reasons Jcon gives in his 1st paragraph.

But I do think that if the union is particularly awkward that it might be time to have several competing  PRIVATE ENTERPISE bus companies in the whole GTA area and I mean intra-urban services not inter-urban

We all know that would never happen with the NDP in power in the city and in charge of the TTC (giambroni).  I hope they go on strike and the damn workers are forced to cave, yet I know that this will not be the case.  I'm prepared to walk if it means that the union gets squashed.  The ttc has the worst service of any public transit I've ever been on.

Offline Iso Octane

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2008, 12:31:34 pm »
  The ttc has the worst service of any public transit I've ever been on.
I tend to think that the problems are logistical ones, rather than financial/political.

Riding the TTC is a terrible experience, but is it really the TTC's fault? 

For example, I hate waiting 15 minutes for a bus, but can you imagine how many buses there would have to be to do a 3 minute wait in the suburbs?  Then there are the buses smelling of moldy garbage.  Sure they should clean them better, but how about not littering in the first place?  Finally, there just isn't anything that can be done about highschool kids short of a cultural reform.  I go to great lengths to avoid the highschoolers, and that was even when I was in highschool myself.



baumer00

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2008, 01:11:38 pm »
  The ttc has the worst service of any public transit I've ever been on.
I tend to think that the problems are logistical ones, rather than financial/political.

Riding the TTC is a terrible experience, but is it really the TTC's fault? 

For example, I hate waiting 15 minutes for a bus, but can you imagine how many buses there would have to be to do a 3 minute wait in the suburbs?  Then there are the buses smelling of moldy garbage.  Sure they should clean them better, but how about not littering in the first place?  Finally, there just isn't anything that can be done about highschool kids short of a cultural reform.  I go to great lengths to avoid the highschoolers, and that was even when I was in highschool myself.




My thoughts on a few issues:
TTC Employees: in general from my experiences (never riding a bus, only subway) is that the ticket-taker/booth people are some of the laziest workers I've ever seen.  I have no issues with the subway drivers, I suppose the fault lies elsewhere in the system when I am forced to wait for 10 minutes for a subway.  That said, they make an insane amount of money for a job that requires zero education and is simple to perform.

Subway routes: absolutely horrible - basically services 3 streets in a city with approx. 3 million people.  This would be the fault of all levels of government for not planning well and committing the resources.

Actual subway cars: I guess this is management's fault, they are so poorly laid out and inefficient it is embarrasing as a city.  I would suggest they take a look at the cars being used in places like Hong Kong that can fit many more people in relative comfort.

Cost: why does someone who takes the subway for 3 blocks pay the same amount as someone who rides it from top to bottom (GO transit manages to figure out how to charge people based on distance)? Other cities do not employ such a stupid system.  Automated debit cards that are used when people get on and get off could easily calculate what the appropriate fares should be, and would also lead to less employees being required to push the button and let the change fall down into the bottom of the container.  My guess is that this would increase revenue for the TTC, but I do not have any facts to back this up.  Why can't I buy tickets with a debit/credit card anywhere on the TTC lines but for union station, again, moronic planning, thanks a lot ttc.

The union: "worth a million", the premise makes no sense and is supported by fudged numbers that bear no semblance to reality.  You suck!  I can't stand being held hostage by union demands.  Guess what, I didn't get the raise I wanted this year b/c my bank had a bad year, do I strike? No, b/c that's not what adults should do. Suck it up.

I could go on and on, but this is making me very upset so I will stop.  I hate you TTC.

Offline initial_D

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2008, 02:27:04 pm »
There are lots people that depends on the public transit system to get to work and earn a living, I hope there is no strike or lock out.

Offline dr_spock

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2008, 03:04:57 pm »
There are lots people that depends on the public transit system to get to work and earn a living, I hope there is no strike or lock out.

Maybe turn it into an essential service and limit their ability to strike.

baumer00

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2008, 10:58:01 pm »
So they "negotiate" with management, who cave in to basically every demand and the union still rejects the contract...I hope the strike lasts a year and every one of those unionized f******** goes bankrupt...maybe we can find some gorillas to take over, after all, they have opposing thumbs which is really all it takes to do their job

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2008, 11:19:18 pm »
Should make for a fun drive/ride/hitchhike come Monday morning. If you thought rush hour was busy before, just wait.

I'm already riding my bike so it doesn't really matter to me but I'm sure there are many people that don't have alternate transportation.

baumer00

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2008, 11:24:23 pm »
I'll be walking, not a big deal to me, but hopefully this will really turn public sentiment against the union, could the media be any more biased in their reporting, it's amazing how everyone they interview is pro-union.

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2008, 11:41:33 pm »
I already thought most people didn't like anything/anyone at the TTC ;)

Strike survival guide  ;D
http://www.thestar.com/article/404942

They are saying they pulled the plug quickly (midnight) as all their workers felt worried about their safety. I wonder if they also think they will get gifts when they come back to work?

I wonder if this will still happen?

http://www.ibiketo.ca/node/2032
Quote
TTC Strike = New Bike Lanes?
Posted March 31st, 2008 by vic
in

    * bike lanes
    * TTC

According to the Toronto Star, the City may create some new temporary bike lanes in the event of a TTC strike:

    For cyclists, the curb lane on Bay St. from Queen's Quay to Yorkville will become a bike-only lane for the duration of a strike. So will the curb lanes on Queen's Quay from Lower Spadina Ave. to Yonge St., and Dundas St. E. from River St. to Broadview Ave.

Nice touch. The curmudgeon in me wonders if anything like this would actually get enforced. How well do they enforce the HOV/taxi/bike lanes on Bay now? How about the ones on Dundas west of Six Points? (Answer: not at all).

Some history of past strikes:

May 2006 TTC employees stage an illegal wildcat strike. Service is restored beginning at 5 p.m. with buses and one subway line. Another subway line does not begin running until an hour later and service remains spotty throughout the evening.

April 1999 Two day strike ends when provincial government orders union back to work

September 1991 Service is suspended for eight days

August 1989 Workers stage a 41-day slowdown until government tables back-to-work legislation

September 1985 Service suspended during a six day work-to-rule campaign

September 1978 Service is suspended during an eight day strike

August 1974 Service is suspended for 23 days, the longest strike in TTC history

January 1952 Works stage the first strike in TTC history, service is suspended for 19 days


Wolfe

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2008, 12:26:27 am »

They are saying they pulled the plug quickly (midnight) as all their workers felt worried about their safety. I wonder if they also think they will get gifts when they come back to work?


Yeah that's what they said....

#1 That's :censor:. It's a bargaining tactic plain and simple.

and

#2 The union head added insult to injury saying that they're afraid of being attacked by the public because we get "angry and irrational" when a union cuts of a basic public service in the middle of their shift with no warning. If I had gone out downtown tonight and found out at 1am that there was no transit service to get back home to the suburbs they're damned right I'd be angry but my anger would have been entirely rational. >:( It's not "irrational" to get pissed off at being stuck miles from home with no warning by an intransigent union stunt.



turbodiesel

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2008, 12:41:09 am »
too late mate, they are ON STRIKE.

ATU Local 113

 

Apr 25, 2008 22:47 ETTransit Union Rejects TTC Settlement; Calls Strike as of Midnight
TORONTO, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - April 25, 2008) - The union that represents 9,000 operating and maintenance employees of the Toronto Transit Commission has voted down the tentative settlement by 65%.

A strike will begin as of midnight tonight.

"We have assessed the situation and decided that we will not expose our members to the dangers of assaults from angry and irrational members of the public," said Bob Kinnear, ATU Local 113 President. (turbodiesel's comment: riot expected?)

The reports from our members of increases in threats and abuse from passengers last weekend, after we gave our original 48-hours' notice, has left us no choice but to withdraw our services immediately. We have a legal responsibility to protect the safety of our members and so does the TTC."

"We have informed the TTC and the Ministry of Labour of this development. "Our Executive will be meeting on Saturday morning to determine our next steps."

The union will be conducting a media conference following its executive board meeting. A media advisory will be issued when the time and place of the conference has been set.

The union will be making no comment until the media conference.

Overall comments by turbodiesel: I guess it will be an "understatement" of having a riot if TTC is on strike, is it? Not likely, but for sure fuel anger in our community for sure. Now compounded with high petrol prices... not a pretty scene. (But look at the bright side: our petrol price is half of that of HK!)

turbodiesel

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2008, 12:51:20 am »
I'll be walking, not a big deal to me, but hopefully this will really turn public sentiment against the union, could the media be any more biased in their reporting, it's amazing how everyone they interview is pro-union.

very well said. I don't even bother taking TTC now.

Wolfe

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2008, 01:28:48 am »
Here's what was so intolerable that they had to go on strike without warning during regular service hours:

http://www.ccnmatthews.com/news/releases.Controller?action=check4Cookies&searchText=false&showText=all&actionFor=848785

Quote
Apr 26, 2008 00:25 ET
TTC Settlement Rejected by Union
Highlights of Agreement

TORONTO, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - April 26, 2008) - The Amalgamated Transit Union Local 113 has rejected the negotiated settlement agreed to on April 20. As a result bus, streetcar, subway and Scarborough RT service is cancelled until further notice. Limited Wheel-Trans service will remain in place for customers who must attend medical appointments for chemotherapy, dialysis and other life-threatening illnesses.

The Toronto Transit Commission negotiated a fair agreement with Local 113 that was recommended by its Executive.

What follows are highlights of the negotiated settlement that was rejected this evening. Nowhere in the agreement did the TTC request any concessions from the union.




Term:                 three years, expiring March 31, 2011
Wages:                April 1, 2008 - 3%; April 1, 2009 - 3%;
                      April 1, 2010 - 3%
Vision Care:         $300 every 2 years; plus $50 for exams
Dental Care:          major restorative, including implants up to $2,500
Orthodontic:          up to $4,000 (50% TTC coverage)
Physio & Chiro:       $1,000 max ($35 per visit)
Long-term Disability: $2,550 max, per month


 


The TTC also agreed to top-up WSIB benefits from the current 93% of take-home pay to 100%. The TTC will provide a top-up to the loss-of-earnings benefit to an employee injured while performing regular duties, the workplace incident is an unforeseen, extraordinary event, and the employee's application for a loss-of-earnings benefit was approved by the WSIB.

The TTC pension, it was agreed, would have been addressed during the operating budget process in 2010 and 2011. Both management and employees would have been bound by any contribution increases that were approved.

The TTC's new buses, much like new automobiles, come with warranties. There has been discussion in the media that the TTC was attempting to contract out repairs to buses under warranty in an attempt to reduce jobs at the TTC. That is not true. The facts are this: the manufacturer is responsible for certain repairs to buses that are under warranty. TTC employees currently do a substantial amount of warranty work that is charged back to the bus manufacturer.

There is an outstanding arbitration, going back to 2002, about the appropriate compensation for Operators/Collectors. As part of the settlement, the parties agreed that if the arbitration results in a wage increase for Operators, the GTA Clause is not triggered. If the union is unsuccessful through arbitration, the GTA Clause guarantees that Operators will receive .05 cents more per hour than the highest paid Operator Group in the GTA at the time of settlement.


I'll be walking, not a big deal to me, but hopefully this will really turn public sentiment against the union, could the media be any more biased in their reporting, it's amazing how everyone they interview is pro-union.

:iagree:

Offline aquadorhj

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2008, 02:06:28 am »
It is kinda hard to be pro-union when a university grad with degree in technology(me) or commerce(buddy) start out making way less money and stay that way for a quite a while, compared to a bus/train driver.

Last time the Transit worker strike-ed in calgary few years back, i walked 40 minutes to school..  both way uphills, and -40 degree. ;)

Driving thrills makes my wallet lighter.. and therefore makes me faster because i'm shedding weight... :D

Offline Mr. Black

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Offline inco

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Re: Why should we care that TTC in under contract negotiations?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2008, 09:36:47 am »
Here we go again. They cripple the city and have little or no regard for our welfare. It's all about them. Hey Kinnear - do you want respect - earn it buddy and do your job without blackmailing everyone. Negotiate and it shows that while you expected they would ratify the deal they didn't and so I see your days numbered too.

Fire all of them. Let them grovel like most of their customers will be doing for the next few days.

Hire them back at minimum wage and see if they can survive. Thousands of others do on a daily basis, so let's hear it for one for mankind.

Blindsiding people does NOT MAKE FRIENDS.