Author Topic: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT  (Read 30112 times)

Vil

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2008, 10:57:17 am »
The engines are hand built and there's a variation in power from engine to engine. I assume some have even more than others.

Enough to make a 20 sec difference around the 'ring?  I don't think so.

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2008, 11:39:25 am »
..Oh fack NOT MORE ...."LORDY OF THA RINGS BULLCRAP"............
Time is to stop everything happening at once

Offline drederick

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2008, 02:01:49 pm »
Fast for sure (look at the test below from Edmunds) - but once again is this the real GTR? how could this one run down a zr1 on a straightaway for 40 seconds!

Just look at the videos of nissan's 'claimed' record run which are all over youtube and put aside all bias (you know you can!) and ask yourself if the GTR really can hang with the new zr1 down a full throttle straightaway like it does here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjk92atTANc

There is just no WAY a 480hp car - even with 0 percent driveline loss, can hang with a 638 hp car.

And yet the GT-R easily stays with the zr1 for about 40 seconds down a straightaway.

I wonder how Nissan will respond - or will they be silent?


http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/2008/09/2009-nissan-gt-r-0-60-in-35-and-274mpg.html

With all of the hubbub surrounding the recent repairs on our long term 2009 Nissan GT-R we thought we'd bring things back around and focus on the point of the GT-R: going fast.

We ran our GT-R (our car purchased from a dealership, not a press vehicle) through all of our normal performance tests, 0-60, 1/4-mile, 60-0, slalom and skidpad.

Follow the link for the full details.


2009 Nissan GT-R Performance Test:
Acceleration:

0-30: 1.5

0-45: 2.6


0-60: 3.9

0-60 with rollout ( read our How We Test article for more on rollout): 3.5

0-75: 5.5

1/4-mile: 12.0 @ 114.7

Comments: "Seems like both the driver and the car are working properly, but this isn't as quick as we've seen in the past. Launch is good, but 60 and 1/4 (times) are off slightly. Got noticeably slower the more we ran it. Quit at 4 runs."

Braking:

60-0: 108 feet

30-0: 28 feet

Comments: "Again, everything feels to spec, yet 108 is a long way from previous 98 ft best."

Slalom: 73.6 mph

Comments: "Suddenly the GT-R feels 400-lbs lighter in the slalom. The biggest challenge is not hitting cones (especially on the driver's right side). Discovered a counter intuitive trait this time: if it understeers, wood the throttle and let the computers take care of it."

Skidpad: .91 G

Comments: "All setting on full attack but it understeered its way to a .091G. Seems "off" to me."

Just to save you the time here are the links to our last GT-R test and one to the last test of a Corvette Z06 (which happened to be stonking fast and the quickest one we've ever tested).

Oh, about that 27.4 mpg thing. On the same day as this test I was charged with escorting a test car, ferried by trailer, on a 250+ mile trek. We were limited to Trucks with Trailer speed limits (which were occasionally ignored by my right foot) on California's 5 highway. The digital display read 29.5, but our calculations had it a bit lower; 27.4. Beats my best Z06 mileage (25.5) by a hair.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2008, 03:07:33 pm by drederick »
blah blah blah Toyota blah blah blah I feel your pain; you've got a GM, it's worth squat and you owe on it. 

Dude, if the displacment is EXACT, it's not "all new".  The intake is different, the VVT is now on both sets of valves  In the automotive world "all new" often means somewhat different

Offline Jaeger

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2008, 10:38:33 am »
But, I'm assuming Porsche must have something tangible in the way of proof to call out Nissan publicly like that.

Doesn't  sound like they have ANY proof to me.  If they had that card, they would have played it.  The best they can muster is "We can't figure out how they did it, therefore they must have cheated."  Laughable arrogance and obvious sour grapes, IMHO.  Like the American sprinters left sputtering in Usian Bolt's jet wash: "We can't run that fast, so he must be on drugs!"

I guess the GT-R "cheated" when it handed the 911 TT it's head in the track test that is the subject of this thread as well.

Please.

Jaeger
Wokeism is nothing more than the recognition and opposition of bigotry in all its forms.  Bigots are predictably triggered.

Offline drederick

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2008, 11:00:30 am »
Nissan's response - it is interesting that they say thay are considering all their options including a rematch - I guess set up against porsche.........

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=57410&vf=12

We didn't cheat with GT-R 'Ring time, says Nissan

Nissan defends legitimacy of GT-R supercar's record lap time against suspicions raised by rival Porsche. By ANDREW HEASLEY in Paris.

 
Nissan GT-R
Nissan has hit back at suspicions raised by Porsche this week that the record Nurburgring lap time set by the GT-R supercar was achieved in anything other than a standard showroom-specification car.

The matter has reached top brass at Nissan, with its European spokesman at the Paris motor show today confirming the matter has gone ''quite high'' up in the company.

A senior Porsche engineer, August Achleitner, who supervises the development of all 911 sports cars, sparked controversy when he told Australian journalists at the launch of the new 911 Targa in Verona, Italy, this week that they were unable to replicate the record 7 minute 29 second lap time that Nissan claimed the GT-R set in April.

In the hands of a Porsche chassis engineer, the GT-R was 20 seconds slower than a 911 GT2 and 16 seconds slower than a Porsche 911 Turbo.

Achleitner questioned whether the GT-R was running a standard set-up on road tyres or perhaps something more track-oriented.

“Quite simply we're not going to get into a war of words with Porsche,” said Nissan's European spokesman Neil Reeve. “The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tyres which are available to customers in the showroom.They're not trick tyres – absolutely standard tyres, normal road tyres.

“The GT-R comes with Bridgestone and Goodyear (Dunlop). One tyre gives slightly better times around the 'Ring.

“We did it on Dunlop. They're available with the car,” he said.

He was at a loss to explain the disparity over the lap time differences.

“I don't know, honestly I can't explain. I don't think it's for us to explain how they didn't match our time,” Mr Reeve said.

“We absolutely maintain (that) Tochio Suzuki - the chief test driver on the GT-R program pounded thousands of laps - he got to know every inch of Nurburgring (circuit) and how the car performs on the Nurburgring and hence set that fabulous lap. More than that, I can't speculate. I can't explain why they couldn't match the time.”

“We maintain that ... nothing special was done to the car.”

He conceded that the controversy might play on the minds of potential GT-R buyers. Fast lap times of the famous 21-kilometre German circuit are increasingy being used by car companies for bragging rights over performance and engineering prowess.

“The people who'd buy a GT-R or 911 Turbo are not the type of people to make a purchase like that lightly. They going to do an incredible amount of research, they're going to read every single road test that's available in every magazine which is on the internet and they're going to draw their own conclusion. Will it put doubt in their mind? They might find it surprising. In our experience in Europe, the GT-R has widely matched, at least, if not beaten, the 911 Turbo on various track tests. They can draw their own conclusions.

“We think its performance speaks for itself,'' he said.

Reeve wouldn't rule out the possibility of a rematch for the world to see.

“We're considering our options. We're not saying more than that,” he said.

“This (Porsche's questioning of Nissan's claim) happened two days ago, it was a surprising thing to read in the press, it's important.

“But let's not blow it out of all proportion. We're not crying about it. We're not going to sook about it.

“I'm cheeky enough to say it's flattering that Porsche have bought themselves a GT-R and flown it to Germany, they want to try it. I guess that's some kind of stamp of approval.

“It's great to have the competition. We're absolutely proud of the GT-R. It's a fabulous sports car, really epic.

“The level of performance that it delivers is really so impressive for the price it's positioned at,” he said.


Offline drederick

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2008, 11:09:18 am »
I can't take credit for this but someone took the time to watch the videos of the zr1, zonda and 'stock GT-R' ring runs down the (I believe) end straightaway and here is what they found - and again, how on earth is this in the realm of possibility?....... for the record I like the GT-R, but really, it just doesn't add up:

We all know the split times for the Zonda,ZR-1,GT-R from overpass to overpass on the back straight. Well there are white signs along the side of the track, you can take split times from the overpass to each sign (the last sign is the black traffic sign on the right of the road) and if you do you'll find this:


Car -------- ZR-1 ------Zonda ----- GT-R

1rst Overpass--------------------------

Split 1 -------2.1---------2.1---------2.3
Split 2 -------6.7---------6.6---------7.1
Split 3 -------9.4---------9.2---------9.1 (What the???)
Split 4 -------11.9--------11.8--------11.8 ?????
Split 5--------17.3--------N/A--------17.4

2nd Overpass-23.0--------22.5--------23.4


(N/A - The Zonda vids changes to outside view so you cant tell when it passes the sign)


So what you see here is the GT-R begins to lose ground and either the tape is cut, FF or they hit a NOS button because it walks the ZR-1 and Zonda down in the period of 2 seconds.

The time the GT-R loses is becuase it's still so fat it cant carry the same speed around the turn that comes up after the second overpass and has to lift, other wise it would have beaten both the ZR-1 and Zonda down that back stretch.

Use the clocks on the screen, not the youtube playback speeds because that may distort the times, we want to count the original clocks.


The signs are easiest to see in the origina vids, there are some smaller signs, ignore them and use the ones that look the same.


ZR-1----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naj7prQG1qE

Zonda---> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEuv6Dkdl0U

GT-R----> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBZ5i15yVU8

Mitlov

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2008, 11:30:19 am »
UK's Autocar puts the GT-R, 911 GT3, and M3 on a track.  I haven't had the opportunity to watch this yet, but I thought it would add something to the conversation.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzEivL1Kruo&feature=related

Offline DriverJeff

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2008, 01:38:15 pm »
Complete and utter PR brilliance.  You can't buy phenomenal publicity like this.  Both Porsche and Nissan are getting loads of people talking about their products.  Porsche fans have an 'out' for the GT2 and Turbo being (allegedly) slower around the 'Ring; and Nissan gets to smugly sit back and enjoy the (alleged) bragging rights. 

Cool...
The past:00 BMW M Rdstr, 19 Jetta, 15 Ducati Scrambler, 09 Triumph Bonneville, 98 Boxster, 17 Kawi Z900, 05 LS 430, 99 LS 400, 17 Subaru STI, 14 Triumph STR, 15 WRX, 09 Ducati Monster 1100,  08 335i, 06 Suzuki SV650S, 06 330i, 06 MX-5, 04 Audi A4, 03 Suzuki SV650S, 98 328i, 93 Civic Si, 85 Corolla

Offline quadzilla

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2008, 01:48:30 pm »
New Nissan ad time?

Not only is our car faster....
Our test drivers are better.
GT-R. Get yours before they are gone.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2008, 02:14:59 pm »
I can't take credit for this but someone took the time to watch the videos of the zr1, zonda and 'stock GT-R' ring runs down the (I believe) end straightaway and here is what they found - and again, how on earth is this in the realm of possibility?.......

Well, as long as some anonymous person on the internet reported that data and another anonymous person on the internet posted it here, then it MUST be true!  :rofl:

Jaeger

Offline drederick

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2008, 02:40:25 pm »
I can't take credit for this but someone took the time to watch the videos of the zr1, zonda and 'stock GT-R' ring runs down the (I believe) end straightaway and here is what they found - and again, how on earth is this in the realm of possibility?.......

Well, as long as some anonymous person on the internet reported that data and another anonymous person on the internet posted it here, then it MUST be true!  :rofl:

Jaeger

I trust you watched the videos and saw something different then?

Offline Jaeger

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2008, 03:10:41 pm »
New Nissan ad time?

Not only is our car faster....
Our test drivers are better.
GT-R. Get yours before they are gone.

Works for me.  ;D

Jaeger

Offline Jaeger

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2008, 03:23:36 pm »
UK's Autocar puts the GT-R, 911 GT3, and M3 on a track.  I haven't had the opportunity to watch this yet, but I thought it would add something to the conversation.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjwJl4t-DF8

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzEivL1Kruo&feature=related


The video overlay showing in real time the degree to which the GTR eats the M3 and GT3 alive through a hairpin turn is most impressive.  Of course, Nissan was no doubt cheating somehow (never mind the lack of specifics, or proof, or any of that).

Favourite lines:  "What we're saying is that a car made by a company that used to be called Datsun is as good as the best 911 ever made."

and

"It's a baby Veyron."

That thumping sound is Porschephiles fainting worldwide.

Jaeger

Mitlov

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2008, 05:33:32 am »
Okay, HERE is the video that should permanently resolve Porsche's accusations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2IHcp10BRI&feature=related

(1)  Porsche 911 Turbo press car.
(2)  Privately-owned Nissan GT-R (first to be sold in the UK), loaned for the test by a very trusting owner.  No ringer from Nissan Motor Co or anything.
(3)  CAR Magazine driver (my favorite serious UK magazine for reviews), with the same driver in each car.
(4)  No anti-Porsche bias...if anything, they're Porsche fanboys.  Note the third item down on the left side: http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/

And it gets better.  The Porsche 911 Turbo did it in the dry, and the driver took quite a few passes to get the best time.  The GT-R did it in the damp, and he only took one lap.

That one lap in the GT-R was a full second around the track FASTER than his best lap in the 911 Turbo.  Case closed.  The Nissan is ludicrously fast.  Go ahead and criticize it for being ugly or video-game-like, but don't call it slow.

...so why did Porsche get a 25-second-slower time around the 'Ring than Nissan did?  Here's my grand conspiracy theory.  Porsche's undoubtedly got some really good test-drivers on their payroll, but those guys spend all their time driving Porsches.  Nissan has some really good test-drivers on their payroll, who have been driving Skyline GTRs for their entire professional careers.  Put a guy who spends his time day-in-day-out in 911s into a GT-R, and he's going to be a fish out of water.  He won't match the lap time of an "equally experienced" driver who happens to know the GTR inside and out.  If Nissan tried to lap the 'Ring in a 911 Turbo, they'd probably get an unimpressive lap time too.  Just my theory.

Offline Jaeger

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2008, 10:17:58 am »
Mitlov,

I wish you'd stop beng so logical and pragmatic.  And while you're at it, quit taking the time to to support your statements with objective data from  reliable sources.  It's quite simple:  Porsche says they cheated, so they cheated.  They're Porsche, and they know everything there is to know about making cars go fast, so will you please just ignore the man behind the curtain and accept what they say already?  Besides, everyone knows that a Nissan can't beat a Porsche - it just doesn't add up.  Simple as that.

Thanks.

Jaeger

vdk

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2008, 04:50:52 pm »
Mitlov,

I wish you'd stop beng so logical and pragmatic.  And while you're at it, quit taking the time to to support your statements with objective data from  reliable sources.  It's quite simple:  Porsche says they cheated, so they cheated.  They're Porsche, and they know everything there is to know about making cars go fast, so will you please just ignore the man behind the curtain and accept what they say already?  Besides, everyone knows that a Nissan can't beat a Porsche - it just doesn't add up.  Simple as that.

Thanks.

Jaeger

 :rofl: :rofl2:



Offline drederick

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2008, 04:56:19 pm »
Here is a test done in America between an owner of a GTR (and he also owns a pretty modified Z06) and another Z06 vette owner in a planned race to see what the real story is between the cars. NOTE: the Z06 in the test wasn't perfectly stock as it had some suspension and brake upgardes but it performed pretty much as close to stock as possible as it had pretty worn stock GY runflats.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=2137761

outcome: Z06 vette best time was .3 seconds faster over a 2.1 mile track.

Agreed by both owners was that the vette was clearly faster in a straightline, and that with different tires (ones like what the GTR was wearing - i.e. NOT runflats) it would have walked away.

Clearly the GTR is a great handling car stock. But from a roll against a Z06 or Zr1 there is no chance short of a missed shift.

So again, how can the GTR in that video from Nissan doing the 7:29 run keep up with a zr1 down such a long straightaway? The owner of the GTR in the link above says the Z06 is clearly faster in a straightline, yet, this Nissan video GTR can keep up easily with a zr1 that is MUCH faster than a Z06.

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2008, 05:59:12 pm »
Let's see now - where should I look for unbiased and reliable information illuminating the comparative performance capabilities of the Porsche, the Nissan and the Corvette:

a) Multiple independent and professional automotive publications conducting instrumented testing in controlled conditions and video-taping same;
b) PORSCHE PR statements; or
c) CORVETTE forums.

Help me out here guys, I'm just not sure....

Jaeger


Mitlov

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2008, 06:16:17 pm »
Mitlov,

I wish you'd stop beng so logical and pragmatic.  And while you're at it, quit taking the time to to support your statements with objective data from  reliable sources.  It's quite simple:  Porsche says they cheated, so they cheated.  They're Porsche, and they know everything there is to know about making cars go fast, so will you please just ignore the man behind the curtain and accept what they say already?  Besides, everyone knows that a Nissan can't beat a Porsche - it just doesn't add up.  Simple as that.

Thanks.

Jaeger

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.


Offline Jaeger

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Re: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2008, 06:24:57 pm »
LOL!  :rofl: