Topic: First Track Test: Nissan GT-R CRUSHES Z06 and Porsche 911 TT

[rrocket]

Just read my May issue of Road and Track.  They claim to have the first real comparo.  I was expecting the GT-R to be quicker around the track because of the ease at which you can drive it quickly.  But I was unprepared for how dominant it was.  I would have guessed 1-2 second or so quicker than the other cars. With Steve Millen at the wheels of the cars at Button Willow, the GT-R absolutely destroyed the competition.  How bad?  Both the Z06 and 911 circulated in the 2:02 range.  The GT-R? 1:57 !!!  That's 5 seconds per lap.  I don't recall a comparo of similar cars being so lop-sided.  Millen noted the GT-R gave him more confidence on the track than any street car he'd ever driven.  High praise from a guy like that.

Man...this car rocks.  I want one bad.  I must play more lotto tickets and more poker at the casino, save my pennies, and recycle my aluminum cans...

[Mitlov]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/forum/index.php/topic,56563.40.html

See reply #57, posted March 21, 2008...

[rrocket]

Damn...you guys must get your mags early over there..!!

[speed12sil]

...Both the Z06 and 911 circulated in the 2:02 range.  The GT-R? 1:57 !!! 

Well if you haven't found out already, various sources (both private parties and magazines) have confirmed that Nissan is (grossly) underrating the engine's hp. R35 GT-R is typically dyno'd at about 480hp at the wheels, and a conservative guess of 10% drivetrain loss puts the actually hp at the flywheel at ~530hp. So as advanced as the car's AWD system is, the reason GT-R is faster than 911tt is simply that it's making much more hp than advertised. No amount of engineering can overcome laws of physics and make car "A" that's significantly heavier than car "B" with equal power to go that much faster.

[Mitlov]

...Both the Z06 and 911 circulated in the 2:02 range.  The GT-R? 1:57 !!! 

Well if you haven't found out already, various sources (both private parties and magazines) have confirmed that Nissan is (grossly) underrating the engine's hp. R35 GT-R is typically dyno'd at about 480hp at the wheels, and a conservative guess of 10% drivetrain loss puts the actually hp at the flywheel at ~530hp. So as advanced as the car's AWD system is, the reason GT-R is faster than 911tt is simply that it's making much more hp than advertised. No amount of engineering can overcome laws of physics and make car "A" that's significantly heavier than car "B" with equal power to go that much faster.

And everyone agrees that the GT-R's power output has been underrated by a significant amount.  That doesn't change the fact that, at US$70,000 and CAN$82,000, (Z06 territory and far cheaper than a 911 Turbo), it may be the biggest performance bargain on the market.

In other GT-R news, spy photographers have caught what is undoubtedly the Nissan GT-R V-Spec (if the GT-R competes with the Z06, the V-Spec will compete with the Vette ZR-1) circling the Nurburgring.  Stopwatch-equipped observers timed its laps at 7:25.  To put that in comparison, as Autoblog notes: "Walter Röhrl lapped the Ring in 7:28 while driving a Porsche Carrera GT in 2004."  The Porsche Carrera GT sold with an MSRP of $440,000 US Dollars, or six GT-Rs (and probably four-and-a-half GT-R V-Specs).

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/08/nissan-gt-r-v-spec-lap-times-stun-observers/

[safristi]

Now if I had the NURBURGRING in My backyard ...so to speak.... well even then I can't stand the UGLINESS.......sometimes ya have ta say NO to a GO'er...'cos even with a paper BAG over it's head it embrasses ya in the driveway........would it have HURT to PUT a CAYMAN body on IT.....

[Jameel]

...Both the Z06 and 911 circulated in the 2:02 range.  The GT-R? 1:57 !!! 

Well if you haven't found out already, various sources (both private parties and magazines) have confirmed that Nissan is (grossly) underrating the engine's hp. R35 GT-R is typically dyno'd at about 480hp at the wheels, and a conservative guess of 10% drivetrain loss puts the actually hp at the flywheel at ~530hp. So as advanced as the car's AWD system is, the reason GT-R is faster than 911tt is simply that it's making much more hp than advertised. No amount of engineering can overcome laws of physics and make car "A" that's significantly heavier than car "B" with equal power to go that much faster.

You're being very conservative with your 10% drivetrain loss on an AWD car.  I would guessetmiate closer to 20%

Has anybody seen the results from the AMUSE tuner for the GT-R. They got 612 HP from intake, exhaust and ECU.

I was skeptical about this car when it was announced and launched. But now I'm a firm believer of it's performance.  I'm still not a fan of AWD and the heavy weight. But you can't deny the performance anymore.

As impressive as the spec-V time at the 'Ring. Those times are very misleading. How do we know the Carrera GT didn't run into traffic or it was damp that day, etc... So many variables at the 'Ring.

[The Mighty Duck]

I still can't get how this 3900 pound car out slaloms an Enzo and beats a ZO6 and 911 Turbo around the track by FIVE seconds....advanced all-wheel drive etc, something (at least to me) doesn't add up.

And is tens, even hundreds, of thousands of dollars cheaper than almost all the competition, eh?

But even if the pre-production model is hopped up on Buzz Cola, it still seems to me that the cost differential between a modified GT-R and a Ferrari (for example) would be very, very large.  That $100 000+ surplus for an exotic would buy a lot of go-fast bits to make the GT-R even more potent...

[rrocket]

All these magazine tests have been done with pre-production GT-Rs.

I'll wait to comment further until they test the production version.

I still can't get how this 3900 pound car out slaloms an Enzo and beats a ZO6 and 911 Turbo around the track by FIVE seconds....advanced all-wheel drive etc, something (at least to me) doesn't add up.

When the production GT-R posts these numbers, I will be finally convinced, and my ZO6 heart broken.

Steve Millen said exactly why....the Z06 with 500+HP to the back wheels ONLY is difficult to get around the track because it's tail happy. Period.  I know you're a Z06 fan-boy, but is it that difficult to understand that the new GT-R's advanced AWD system (one of the most advanced ever on a car) is able to put the power down much easier than the Z06? 

[rrocket]

What's the big deal about the 3900 lbs?  Nissan is BSing about the power it's putting down.  I've seen STOCK production dyno numbers from Japan putting down 480-500 TO THE WHEELS.  I saw on "tweaked" pull put down almost 600 AWHP.  But mainly it's the super-sophisticated AWD system that hides the weight very, very well.  Most ever review I've read says the car feels several hundred pounds lighter than what it is.

[johngenx]

Nissan and Chev are proving that you don't need to spend $200K or more to go REALLY fast and own a seriously awesome car.  Suddenly, Ferrari cars look overpriced and underbuilt.

[Jameel]

Nissan and Chev are proving that you don't need to spend $200K or more to go REALLY fast and own a seriously awesome car.  Suddenly, Ferrari cars look overpriced and underbuilt.

Well Ferraris have never been about the "best bang for the buck" or the most HP cars in the market.  I'd guess the price break down on a Ferrari is 80% DNA/technology, price, production and 20% because it's a Ferrari (that's the price for the name and horse on the hood).

I'm not sure if all these test cars are the pre-production ones or not?  But the Japanese production cars seem to be beating 911 Turbos.

[G0dspd]

Nissan and Chev are proving that you don't need to spend $200K or more to go REALLY fast and own a seriously awesome car.  Suddenly, Ferrari cars look overpriced and underbuilt.

Well Ferraris have never been about the "best bang for the buck" or the most HP cars in the market.  I'd guess the price break down on a Ferrari is 80% DNA/technology, price, production and 20% because it's a Ferrari (that's the price for the name and horse on the hood).

I'm not sure if all these test cars are the pre-production ones or not?  But the Japanese production cars seem to bill beating 911 Turbos.

I don't know if the prancing horse and the heritage are worth as much as 20% but if you look at their waiting list   (minimum of 3 years for a new Ferrari), they could crank it up to 40% and still find buyers.

Ferraris and GT-Rs ... they're in different worlds (buyers and purpose). 

[wing]

Only thing that sounds bad about the 3900lbs is on the track the car will eat through brakes and tires.  I lap with guys with mustangs, they have high performance pads on the car but still they overheat after 20-30min of lapping, I could go out all day on those same pads and not have an issue (and they have added extra cooling ducts ala nascar style). 

Weight is a killer on brakes but $ can solve that.

[quadzilla]

Porsche accuses Nissan GT-R of cheating the 'Ring

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/30/porsche-accuses-nissan-gt-r-of-cheating-the-ring/#comments

Sour grapes or legitimate complaint? That's the question we're left pondering after reading that Porsche believes Nissan must have cheated to record its 7:29:03 lap time of the famed Nürburgring race circuit. Porsche claims that it had been suspicious of the Nissan's lap times, so it acquired a U.S.-spec GT-R for testing back-to-back with its own 911 Turbo and GT2. The result? The mighty Godzilla was toppled by the Teutonic German duo, with the GT-R posting times a good 25-seconds slower than Nissan's claim.

How can Porsche explain the discrepancy? "This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car. For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tires," says August Achleitner, the man in charge of the 911 program. There is footage of the GT-R lapping the 'Ring at high speed, but it's taken from inside the car where the tires cannot be seen.

Considering the fact that Nissan saw fit to issue a press release commemorating the car's fast-lap, we doubt this is something that will be taken lightly. There's a big can 'o worms here, and Porsche's in the corner holding the opener.

[DriverJeff]

Ha ha... coool....  

What's next?  

[rrocket]

So if Nissan said the ZR-1 times were false, got a ZR-1, then had their driver post a 25 second per lap slower time you'd say "Ok..it's all a lie!".  Sounds like sour grapes to me...

[quadzilla]

I think all of the players should just bring their cars and best driver to the track and settle it like men. 

[rrocket]

They've been doing that in various magazines already...times ten.......(yawn)....

[Railton]

Hasn't someone already placed a GTR on a dyno and found its WHP greater than advertised? How many BHP does that WHP equate to?
Nissan obviously is not advertising the real power made by each hand built engine.
Railton