Author Topic: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best  (Read 15117 times)

Mitlov

  • Guest
First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« on: March 13, 2008, 12:38:37 pm »
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/13/video-one-cranky-south-korean-gets-to-drive-the-hyundai-genesis/

Watch the embedded YouTube video.  The South Korean reviewer seems very fair--not as excitable as an American reviewer nor as prone to random bashing and nit-picking as a British reviewer.

Offline aquadorhj

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 7607
  • Carma: +271/-265
    • View Profile
  • Cars: MB SLK 55, Lexus NX, E46 M3, Honda Fit, VW Jetta, VW Rabbit, Saturn SC, Nissan NX,
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2008, 01:00:18 pm »
Didn't watch the video. don't wanna be disappointed about it yet. :-[

but judging by the comments under the blog article, it seems as you put it, lukewarm...
...maybe the tester had BMW or audi in mind, instead of cadillac deville, buick lucerne or lincoln towncar.. 

ah well..  hopefully by the time i'm an old fart who need a cushy ride, Genesis 8, or 9 will be good enough.

Driving thrills makes my wallet lighter.. and therefore makes me faster because i'm shedding weight... :D

Offline mmret

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 14603
  • Carma: +240/-570
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2008, 01:25:55 pm »
Seems to be very preproduction if the auto trans software is changing "every day."

HR rated tires could explain the lack of grip and high speed stability, but perhaps it needs some suspension tuning.

VDC probably still needs work too, if its letting the rear kick out even when left on. It does not surprise nor bother me that they don't let you turn it off completely.

Still, I think the reviewer was expecting a 5 series and he got a wafting Volvo.
You can't just have your characters announce how they feel.
That makes me feel angry!

Present: 15.5 V60 T6 + Polestar, 17 MDX
Sometimes Borrow: 11 GLK350
Dark and Twisted Past: 13 TL AWD, 07 Z4 3.0si, 07 CLK550, 06 TSX, 07 Civic, 01 Grandma!

Offline sailor723

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 15630
  • Carma: +416/-1000
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '17 BMW X5 Xdrive35i, '11 BMW 328iXdrive,
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2008, 01:33:10 pm »
I wouldn't really surprise me if a lot of his points were true.  The Koreans have been guilty in the past of using a 1979 Coupe de Ville as the benchmark "luxury" ;D

What also wouldn't surprise me would be if they improved the product very,very quickly in response to negative reviews.
Old Jag convertible...one itch I won't have to scratch again.

Offline safristi

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 46229
  • Carma: +471/-416
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: since the beginning of Saf timeLOTUS ELAN,STANDARD... 10, MG midget, MGB (2),Mazda Millennia,Hyundai Veloster and 1997 Ford Ranger 2014 Subaru Forester XT
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2008, 06:14:38 pm »
..I prefer the NEW TESTAMENT................. :run:...
Time is to stop everything happening at once

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76106
  • Carma: +1254/-7212
    • View Profile
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2008, 06:50:11 pm »
Hyundai hasn't released any truly bad vehicles in the last few years here.  I'll wait and see what the US market Genesis reviews are like....
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Iso Octane

  • Auto Obsessed
  • ***
  • Posts: 676
  • Carma: +0/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • to the beat of the different drum
    • View Profile
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2008, 07:15:34 pm »
The complaints seem to be centered around handling?  That shouldn't be a big deal in a car like this. 

I'm kinda excited about this thing...

Offline sailor723

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 15630
  • Carma: +416/-1000
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '17 BMW X5 Xdrive35i, '11 BMW 328iXdrive,
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2008, 07:19:46 pm »
Hyundai hasn't released any truly bad vehicles in the last few years here.  I'll wait and see what the US market Genesis reviews are like....

Good point....the NA version may be different than the Korean Genesis in terms of handling and performance.

Mitlov

  • Guest
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 11:10:29 pm »
Still, I think the reviewer was expecting a 5 series and he got a wafting Volvo.

It's not just this reviewer.  Since the Genesis was first revealed, everyone seems to have been talking about it as "an E-Class without the badge prestige for 2/3s the price."  I think this review proves that there's more to the price of an E-Class or a 5-Series than JUST the badge.  There's a badge premium, for sure, but there's also a whole lot of legitimate engineering in those cars.

If people drove the Genesis looking for a "RWD Lucerne" or "more refined but less sporty G8" or "modern Town Car," I think they'd be pleasantly surprised.  It's all the "GS/5-Series/E-Class at 2/3s the price" rhetoric that's giving people unrealistic expectations for the Genesis.

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76106
  • Carma: +1254/-7212
    • View Profile
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2008, 11:55:17 pm »
Like I said...let's see what the US version is like.  It's not unheard of for different markets to have different shock valving/spring rates.

And sure there's a lot of engineering in the 5 Series/E-Class...though their reliability hasn't always shown that....

Mitlov

  • Guest
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2008, 12:36:16 am »
Like I said...let's see what the US version is like.  It's not unheard of for different markets to have different shock valving/spring rates.

And sure there's a lot of engineering in the 5 Series/E-Class...though their reliability hasn't always shown that....

There's more to engineering than reliability.  A Yaris is likely more reliable than an LS600h.  But which do you think Toyota has put more engineering into?

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76106
  • Carma: +1254/-7212
    • View Profile
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2008, 12:51:32 am »
^^^^Yes..there is.  But let's not be silly.  A properly engineered car that cost that kind of dough should be more reliable than what those 2 marques have been have been....

And FWIW, the LS still ranks as one of the most reliable cars...though I have no idea about the 600H yet...


But for some people, no matter how good a car is, it's like they are scared to say it's better than a BMW.  They find some stupid, nebulous, impossible to quantify reason why the BMW is better.  Take the G8.  Does most everything the 5 Series does..and many things better.  But to ever say it's better than a BMW would be blasphemy for the ball-washers...Like the G37.  Did most everything better than a 3 Series.  In convincing fashion.  But few and far between did I ever see anyone say it was better....Same thing in 1998 (long time ago) but the GS400 tested by Motor Trend for the Import Car of the Year (which it won) outbraked, outaccelerated, outhandled and out slalomed the 5 Series.  Did they say it was better?  No. 

So even if the Genesis was better than either of those cars, I really have my doubts anyone would say so...

Mitlov

  • Guest
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2008, 01:18:19 am »
But for some people, no matter how good a car is, it's like they are scared to say it's better than a BMW.  They find some stupid, nebulous, impossible to quantify reason why the BMW is better.  Take the G8.  Does most everything the 5 Series does..and many things better.

Read Automobile Magazine's shootout between a G8 and a 550i.  They disagree very much so, and they're no BMW fanboys like Car & Driver is.

Quote
But to ever say it's better than a BMW would be blasphemy for the ball-washers...Like the G37.  Did most everything better than a 3 Series.  In convincing fashion. 

Everything I've read says that the G is lacking in suspension composure and drivetrain refinement compared to the 3.  And while it's more powerful on paper, it's not any faster due to the manner in which the 335i makes power.

Quote
But few and far between did I ever see anyone say it was better....Same thing in 1998 (long time ago) but the GS400 tested by Motor Trend for the Import Car of the Year (which it won) outbraked, outaccelerated, outhandled and out slalomed the 5 Series.  Did they say it was better?  No.

And WHY?  I know you're very, very into quantifiable performance, but there's a lot to be said for refinement, feedback, and composure...which don't come across well in terms of numbers. 

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76106
  • Carma: +1254/-7212
    • View Profile
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2008, 01:25:31 am »
^^^You have to admit..any magazine saying another car is better than the BMW is a rarity.

And the GS is more refined than a 5 Series of the same vintage could ever hope to be. :)

  I'll agree the GS didn't feel as "sporty" as the 5 Series, but it put in better numbers...the ever important performance numbers.  I mean...how can a car that puts down .90G on the skidpad not feel good and inspire you to push it?  Cars that are slobs for handling don't put up numbers like that. I get the composure part..I mean if the car puts up better numbers but you have to wrestle it around...that would suck  But that's not the case. 

I just think they put the BMW up on a pedestal.  There was a time when there was absolutely no comparison.  None.  Nil.  BMW was THE sporty car to have.  But not anymore.  There are TONS or awesome cars now....and I just think the older people at the magazines are still thinking the BMW is the only game in town...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 01:39:46 am by rrocket »

Mitlov

  • Guest
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2008, 01:54:36 am »
If you like feedback, refinement, and handling, and don't care so much about reliability, features-for-the-dollar, or horsepower-for-the-dollar, get a BMW.

If you like performance numbers, value-for-the-dollar, and reliability, and don't care so much about either refinement or isolation, get an Infiniti.

If you like refinement, isolation, and performance numbers, but don't give a hoot about feedback, get a Lexus.

Are car magazines biased toward BMW?  No.  In my experience, though, they don't consider reliability at all, and don't give much consideration to value-for-the-dollar.  They tend to prefer a lot of feedback to a lot of isolation.  That's just the nature of auto journalists--it's the same reason C&D said the RSX beat the Neon SRT4.  And guess which of the above three companies caters best to the stereotypical journalist?

You, on the other hand, focus a lot on reliability and performance numbers, while focusing very little on feedback and feel.  Lexus is perfect for you.  But that doesn't mean that you know the "truth" and people who like Bimmers more are biased or deluded.  It just means that different people have different tastes.

Mercedes offers a package more like Lexus than BMW (except for long-term reliability, which most magazines cannot verify and thus do not consider), and consequently, MB wins magazine shootouts as rarely as Lexus.

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76106
  • Carma: +1254/-7212
    • View Profile
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2008, 02:14:05 am »
^^^^I know what you are saying, but when I drove them back to back (friend had the 5 Series...though it was a stick and GS was an auto) the feedback wasn't miles apart.  The suspension felt tauter.  The steering a touch quicker (splitting hairs on this one I think).  So basically, the suspension felt tauter on the BMW (could read that as feedback).  That's one thing the BMW had over the Lexus that was noticeably different.  Was that one thing enough to say the BMW was better, despite the Lexus  besting the BMW in every performance category?  I didn't think so.  Interior in the Lexus was worlds better, it had more features, the engines were about a tie IMO, and the Lexus had better brakes.

I dunno.  I've driven many BMWs, and the way they gush about them in the magazines, I just didn't feel the same way.  Honestly..I really think these people are stuck because BMW used to be the only game in town.  A bit of denial.  It'll be same way when the Koreans start besting the Japanese for quality consistently in the near future.  The Japanese lovers will be in denial....


Mitlov

  • Guest
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2008, 02:20:09 am »
^^^^I know what you are saying, but when I drove them back to back (friend had the 5 Series...though it was a stick and GS was an auto) the feedback wasn't miles apart.

Every review I've seen or read says the opposite...even Fifth Gear's review of the Lexus IS diesel.  They liked it better overall than the 320d (not surprising, they're a lot more pragmatic and a lot less adrenaline-oriented than Top Gear), but they said it's a lot more isolating. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44_ko9nLQO8

Quote
I dunno.  I've driven many BMWs, and the way they gush about them in the magazines, I just didn't feel the same way.  Honestly..I really think these people are stuck because BMW used to be the only game in town.  A bit of denial.

(1)  I disagree from my test-drive of a 325i, and I'm young and I'm no BMW fanboy.  The feedback, balance, and suspension composure was mind-blowing.  So was the price, of course, given that it had 225 horsepower and plastic seats...

(2)  If car magazines are dominated by old fogeys who can't deal with young upstarts besting the old class benchmark, why has just about EVERY magazine I've seen said that the R8 is better than the 911?

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76106
  • Carma: +1254/-7212
    • View Profile
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2008, 02:24:12 am »

(1)  I disagree from my test-drive of a 325i, and I'm young and I'm no BMW fanboy.  The feedback, balance, and suspension composure was mind-blowing.  So was the price, of course, given that it had 225 horsepower and plastic seats...


But compared to what?  What was your benchmark?  Same thing with Import Queens IS300.  The BMW is a touch better handling, IMO, but certainly not "mind-blowing" compared to the IS...

And if I might blaspheme...I think the sportiest Jetta would hold up pretty darn good to a 3 Series, though the 3 Series would be better.  But that's kinda what I'm talking about.  What was even remotely like the 3 Series (or BMW in general) for years?  Nothing.  RWD sporty sedans were rare.  And still are to a degree.  And as far as the R8 goes...sometimes something so good comes along that you HAVE to give credit where credit is due.

I think it will be much like the new GT-R.  It will likely be better than the 911 turbo AND the R8.  But who will be the brave people to yell that out loud in the streets? 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 02:31:10 am by rrocket »

WagonMan

  • Guest
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2008, 11:29:18 am »
When you look at the trend in most major magazing comparo tests in the last few years you will see that the top cars are getting closer and closer in terms of scores.

Looking at a common comparision the 335 vs g35 vs is350 vs c350 you will generally see comments that each of them is a great car and any would be a great choice for purchase.  But when it comes right down to it the BMW offers more of what magazine reviewers like.  The others may be very close and get closer with every generation but there are still small differences.

For example we looked closely at the g35x before buying the 335, however I did not like the interior as much (too many buttons, materials and execution felt cheaper) and it did not drive as well as the 335xi.  It was very close but in the end the 335 won out.  If my wife had liked the g35 I would have been happy to buy it, as we previously had a g20 that I always really liked.  I find the 3-series interior to be of very high quality, but it is a bit bland.  However, I prefer that to tons of buttons and lights.

Mitlov

  • Guest
Re: First Genesis review...and it's lukewarm at best
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2008, 11:31:37 am »

(1)  I disagree from my test-drive of a 325i, and I'm young and I'm no BMW fanboy.  The feedback, balance, and suspension composure was mind-blowing.  So was the price, of course, given that it had 225 horsepower and plastic seats...


But compared to what?  What was your benchmark? 

Here is a list of cars I'm comparing that slightly-used 2006 325i to:

2005 Acura TSX
2008 Mercedes-Benz C300
2005 Subaru WRX
2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited
2004 Volkswagen 1.8T GLS
2006 Volvo V50 T5

Of those, the Acura had the best shifter, the Legacy GT had the best engine, the Volvo had the best seats, and the Mercedes had the best feeling of solidity.  The BMW had the best handling and suspension composure (Acura was second-best IMO).  The BMW had by far the best steering feedback (my Jetta is second-best of these cars, IMO).

And before you say "but you haven't driven a G35 or an IS," true, but that's because the nearest dealers are 5 hours and 3 hours away, respectively.  However, just for the record, I certainly DO have first-hand experience with other US$30,000 upscale sporty sedans.

You know what I learned from these test-drives?  That my subjective feeling of which cars are great often doesn't match the objective spec sheets and performance numbers.  The Jetta 1.8T should be utterly uncompetitive with these others, looking at it on paper, but it holds up quite nicely, even against a Mercedes 2.5 times its price.  And the TSX and 325i may get spanked by any objective measure by a Legacy GT, but they  sure felt nicer to drive IMO.

...and that's why I would be surprised if the Genesis is a better package overall than a 5-Series or A6 or E-Class or GS or Infiniti M.  Those five cars have a LOT of energy poured into the stuff that you can't see on a spec sheet.  Given the vast price difference between the Hyundai and those five cars, one can only presume that Hyundai spent most of its R&D and build money on the stuff that will make the Genesis competitive on first glance--not in the details that make it compete after you've spent a week really getting to know the cars.

That's not to say that I don't think Hyundai could ever compete with BMW/MB/Audi/Lexus/Infiniti.  It certainly could, if it built a US$50,000 sedan and pumped those sorts of resources into its development.  But Hyundai's not going to upstage these class-leading premium midsize sedans with something that's 60% the price and received 60% the development.