Author Topic: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice  (Read 30977 times)

Offline Dante

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #100 on: September 01, 2008, 11:19:46 pm »
John's analysis is right on the ball. One comment I would like to make is the fact that Ford already HAS all it takes to compete at the top, but the problem is they don't sell those cars in North America (yet hopefully).
Euro Ford models, with engines and trannies for the North American market, would give Ford the edge and more - if they bring the C-MAX and S-MAX here they'll even have more market coverage. They have the design nailed down vs. Honda and Toyota which are going downhill in this respect.
From the Euro reviews, we know that all new Ford models are up there in quality with the best; they usually compare them with VW and not Honda or Toyota. The platforms they are using for the new Euro models are getting high praise too. They have access to a competitive 1.6L I4, 2.5L I4 and 3.5L V6 engines and they also have 6-speed A/T so the powertrains for North America are covered.
The only vehicle that is missing from the portfolio is a mid-size CUV. I think they should build one from scratch based on the Mondeo platform (Euro design please).

Now, all Ford needs to do is quickly scrap the existing line-up, save for the p/u tracks and Mustang or transfer it to Mercury or Lincoln if they see any value for some conservative American buyers and replace it 100% with the Euro models, AS IS, but build them in North America, using the same quality.

With this plan, I’m sure Ford will succeed. I may be a Ford convert example: today, I wouldn't set foot in a Ford dealership. If they bring the Euro models here - Fiesta, Kuga and the new Focus specifically, I'll certainly put them on the top of my shopping list, provided that everything is right.

Fiesta -> Fit, Yaris
Focus -> Civic, Corolla/Matrix, Mazda3, ....
Mondeo -> Accord, Camry, Altima, Mazda6
Kuga -> CRV, RAV4, Rogue
???? -> Pilot, Highlander, CX9
C-MAX-> Mazda5
S-MAX-> Venza

Hell, in any class above I'd pick the Ford offering before Honda or Toyota correspondents.

Offline Dante

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #101 on: September 01, 2008, 11:25:06 pm »
2010 Ford Focus speculation.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/215301/ford_focus.html

If the new Focus will look like this, I don’t see how a Civic, Corolla/Matrix or many other compact cars would stand any chance in front of it. I agree though that perception is a big factor, but if you only go by the car's merits, well .... I think Ford has a winner.


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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #102 on: September 02, 2008, 01:31:36 am »
???? -> Pilot, Highlander, CX9

The Ford Flex is getting glowing reviews from all sorts of magazines (Edmunds, C&D, and Automobile all loved it), has loads of interior space in all three rows, and competes with the thriftiest minivans on the market when it comes to fuel economy.  Yes, it has "unique" exterior styling, but that is the ONLY criticism I have heard leveled against it by someone who has actually taken it for a spin.

Offline tpl

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #103 on: September 02, 2008, 06:28:58 am »
Reading some of the above I wondered if the Mondeo might be too small inside for NA.  Went and checked Ford UK site and the Mondeo is LARGER than the Ford Fusion in every interior dimension except that the front shoulder room is 36mm narrower.   
The most radical revolutionary will become a conservative the day after the revolution.

Offline Dante

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #104 on: September 02, 2008, 07:08:54 am »
???? -> Pilot, Highlander, CX9

The Ford Flex is getting glowing reviews from all sorts of magazines (Edmunds, C&D, and Automobile all loved it), has loads of interior space in all three rows, and competes with the thriftiest minivans on the market when it comes to fuel economy.  Yes, it has "unique" exterior styling, but that is the ONLY criticism I have heard leveled against it by someone who has actually taken it for a spin.

Correct. I know Flex got good reviews and all, but it wouldn’t fit the "Kinetic Design" line-up. Like I said, I would move all current "keeper" models under Mercury/Lincoln brands.
Besides, IMO, Flex is a cross between a car and a minivan rather than a car and a SUV.
Actually I had the Flex reviews in mind when I said that Ford has a competitive 3.5L V6/6-speed A/T in North America.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 07:16:45 am by carcrazy »

Offline johngenx

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #105 on: September 02, 2008, 10:48:21 am »
Ford doesn't need to focus (punny!) on a Pilot competitor.  I'm talking about bringing a four-product line up to market that produces large volumes of sales and is all equipped with economical drivelines (either gas or diesel four cylinders for the majority of sales) to keep Ford from dying as gas prices rise.

They can keep selling the Flex or whatever they already have invested in, but they need to revamp and correct the "four segments" that made Honda and Toyota kings of the hill.  What keeps Honda's bottom line strong?  Fit, Civic, Accord and CR-V.  Yes, they do well on others too, but a maker in dire straights needs to aim for the bulls eye.  Toyota: Yaris, Corolla, Camry, Rav-4.  Just line up on those four Ford and go for it...

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #106 on: September 02, 2008, 10:58:28 am »
Correct. I know Flex got good reviews and all, but it wouldn’t fit the "Kinetic Design" line-up. Like I said, I would move all current "keeper" models under Mercury/Lincoln brands.

Honestly, I think kinetic design is overrated.  It looks good on some cars, but it's also painfully generic IMO.  Is it a Peugeot?  It is a Mitsubishi?  Is it a Mazda?  Is it a Euro Ford?  You have to look at the badge to tell.

Besides, surely not ALL Fords would have to have "kinetic design"?  What about the Mustang and the F-150?  IMO they shouldn't have "Kinetic design" and they shouldn't be pushed into Lincoln or Mercury.  And if the Mustang and the F-150 can be Fords without "kinetic design," why not the Flex?  I hate the Audi approach to styling where every car looks exactly the same except for the proportions.

Quote
Besides, IMO, Flex is a cross between a car and a minivan rather than a car and a SUV.

The Flex is indeed hard to define genre-wise.  But do you think that people will cross-shop it against GMC Acadias and Honda Pilots?  I absolutely think they will.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 11:02:06 am by Mitlov »

Offline Dante

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #107 on: September 02, 2008, 11:07:20 am »
Ford doesn't need to focus (punny!) on a Pilot competitor.  I'm talking about bringing a four-product line up to market that produces large volumes of sales and is all equipped with economical drivelines (either gas or diesel four cylinders for the majority of sales) to keep Ford from dying as gas prices rise.

They can keep selling the Flex or whatever they already have invested in, but they need to revamp and correct the "four segments" that made Honda and Toyota kings of the hill.  What keeps Honda's bottom line strong?  Fit, Civic, Accord and CR-V.  Yes, they do well on others too, but a maker in dire straights needs to aim for the bulls eye.  Toyota: Yaris, Corolla, Camry, Rav-4.  Just line up on those four Ford and go for it...

Ford has all the "core" models in Europe: Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Kuga. They just need to bring them here AS IS in terms of design.

Offline Dante

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #108 on: September 02, 2008, 11:27:04 am »
Correct. I know Flex got good reviews and all, but it wouldn’t fit the "Kinetic Design" line-up. Like I said, I would move all current "keeper" models under Mercury/Lincoln brands.

Honestly, I think kinetic design is overrated.  It looks good on some cars, but it's also painfully generic IMO.  Is it a Peugeot?  It is a Mitsubishi?  Is it a Mazda?  Is it a Euro Ford?  You have to look at the badge to tell.

Besides, surely not ALL Fords would have to have "kinetic design"?  What about the Mustang and the F-150?  IMO they shouldn't have "Kinetic design" and they shouldn't be pushed into Lincoln or Mercury.  And if the Mustang and the F-150 can be Fords without "kinetic design," why not the Flex?  I hate the Audi approach to styling where every car looks exactly the same except for the proportions.

Quote
Besides, IMO, Flex is a cross between a car and a minivan rather than a car and a SUV.

The Flex is indeed hard to define genre-wise.  But do you think that people will cross-shop it against GMC Acadias and Honda Pilots?  I absolutely think they will.

I made the remark that the Mustang and the trucks should remain Ford and continue on their path, but for the rest of the line-up, the Euro models should take over.

The Flex is too new to be scraped or redesigned, plus is not a bad vehicle by any means, so I guess it would make sense to keep it as is.

All I said was that I would transfer the cars like Escape, Edge, Fusion, Flex and Taurus to Mercury or Lincoln (some are already). Those models don't really have too much history anyways and I'm sure they cater to a certain customer base especially in the US. This way, I would build a cohesive Ford line-up and give Mercury some models since they decided to keep it; make Mercury the brand for the North American tastes and keep developing it and build Ford as the world brand.

“Kinetic Design” is just a marketing moniker to me, but I think the new Euro Ford models are easy identifiable and they all have a family resemblance. I don’t see anything wrong with this especially when they look good.
 

Offline Dante

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Offline johngenx

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #110 on: September 02, 2008, 07:17:38 pm »
MotorTrend Fiesta First Drive:

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/112_0809_2009_ford_fiesta_european_first_drive/index.html

"Fiesta will arrive in the North American market in 2010 as a sedan"

Awww, crap.  C'mon Ford, give us that awesome looking five door!!

Offline tpl

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #111 on: September 02, 2008, 07:48:36 pm »
As I read the various articles the 5 door is coming as well.

Cortina

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #112 on: September 02, 2008, 09:07:26 pm »
As I read the various articles the 5 door is coming as well.

You mark my words. They bring the fiesta over. Then they will put a big stone age ford tempo engine or some such concoction which will make it completely naff. Like they always do.  :P

Offline tpl

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #113 on: September 02, 2008, 09:10:24 pm »
As I read the various articles the 5 door is coming as well.

You mark my words. They bring the fiesta over. Then they will put a big stone age ford tempo engine or some such concoction which will make it completely naff. Like they always do.  :P

Which is just about what I said in post #88  Plagarism!!!!    ;) :D ;D :o

Cortina, (North) Americans LIKE stone age engines 'cos they can then ignore the servicing of them for a long time.

Cortina

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #114 on: September 02, 2008, 09:23:41 pm »

Which is just about what I said in post #88  Plagarism!!!!    ;) :D ;D :o

Great minds think a like. ;)

Offline Dante

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #115 on: September 02, 2008, 10:26:36 pm »
I think Ford already made it official that the hatchbacks are coming so no worries. I bet they will also come with the new 1.6L I4 coupled to 5-speed manual and 4-speed auto.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 10:28:59 pm by carcrazy »

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #116 on: September 04, 2008, 01:49:51 am »
I think Ford already made it official that the hatchbacks are coming so no worries. I bet they will also come with the new 1.6L I4 coupled to 5-speed manual and 4-speed auto.

Yes, since Ford NA has no small engines here hopefully they bring the original one with Fiesta, or maybe two/three of them so we could have some choice.
Hate this one car/one engine thing...

Offline rrocket

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #117 on: September 04, 2008, 01:59:54 am »
News out of Windsor today is the Essex Engine Plant may be re-opening with an $80 million shot in the arm from the government (not happy about that part of the announcement).  Ford was saying the project is definitely for a "small car" and quite possibly a diesel.  Fingers crossed.... 
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Dante

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #118 on: September 04, 2008, 09:19:54 am »
I think Ford already made it official that the hatchbacks are coming so no worries. I bet they will also come with the new 1.6L I4 coupled to 5-speed manual and 4-speed auto.

Yes, since Ford NA has no small engines here hopefully they bring the original one with Fiesta, or maybe two/three of them so we could have some choice.
Hate this one car/one engine thing...


I don't mind one engine thing as long as it's the right engine for me. I wouldn’t get any other engine in this car anyway (from the current gas options). The tranny should offer both manual and auto though.



News out of Windsor today is the Essex Engine Plant may be re-opening with an $80 million shot in the arm from the government (not happy about that part of the announcement).  Ford was saying the project is definitely for a "small car" and quite possibly a diesel.  Fingers crossed.... 


This would be great news. I keep thinking about that story posted in Autoblog with the Fiesta caught at Burger King. The article said the Ford engineer let the guy sit in the Fiesta, but when he asked about the engine, the engineer said he can't say, but everyone should be excited about what's underneath the hood. I was thinking the new Ford turbo engines, but it could very well be a diesel? Who knows….

Cortina

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Re: 2009 Fiesta: pizza delivery boys everywhere rejoice
« Reply #119 on: September 04, 2008, 07:55:48 pm »
O' before I forget, here is a mini test of the hot hatch teh S version. Which will we never get of course.  :)

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/227196/ford_fiesta_zetec_s.html

Quote from: autoexpress
FIRST OPINION
Ford predicts that 35 per cent of new Fiesta buyers will go for Zetec S trim – and having driven the sportiest Fiesta, we can see why. The engine is potent yet frugal, while the chassis sets new standards in the supermini class. If we could give the car a six-star rating, we would!

 
AT A GLANCE
Price: £12,595
Engine: 1.6-litre 4cyl, 118bhp
0-62mph: 9.9 seconds
Top speed: 120mph
Economy: 47.9mpg
CO2: 139g/km
Standard equipment: Five airbags, air-con, leather steering wheel, 16-inch alloys, bodykit including deeper front bumper and large rear wing, sports suspension, MP3 and USB connectivity