Topic: No wonder the Mercedes R class is failing...The rear doors.

[HeliDriver]

I just walked by an R-Class today, and took a moment to check out the rear doors.

I didn't get out the tape measure or anything, but they didn't look abnormally huge to me. Certainly no bigger than the doors on a full-size pickup, and everybody somehow manages to get in and out of those in crowded parking lots.

[gap4you]

first of all, a high end minivan sounds like an oxymoron, no actully it is an oxymoron..

No it's not.  "Minivan" describes a body type (unibody-platformed people-hauling van smaller than truck-based passenger vans), not a price point.  You can have a luxury minivan just as much as you can have a luxury subcompact.  The Audi A2, and perhaps even the BMW 1-Series, are luxury subcompacts.  Sure, they don't directly compete to Fits and Yarises, but that doesn't mean it's not a "subcompact" (i.e., smaller than the company's compact car, the A4 and 3-Series). 
[/quote]


well, here is a news flash, A2, BMW 1, A4, 3 series isn't a high end model
it's a nice nimble small entry level car...entry level primium car that is.
it's really for those people who wants a taste the driving exprience of a premium brand without the premium tag and that wants a small compact size car.
like i said in the early post, MB used to be more exclusive and expensive then now.

here is a good example, comparing Acura TL to MB E class or even bmw 5series. Heck, you can just compare a fully loaded malibu to a S CLASS.

what it really means is malibu will always be a malibu, they won' take the body of a malibu and make something that compete against E class, and i'm not referring to the type of the platform(unibody/body on frame) one car use.

first of all, a high end minivan sounds like an oxymoron, no actully it is an oxymoron..
whats the next hadline?

No, a high end minivan is not an oxymoron.  Please feel free to consult a dictionary on 'oxymoron'.

so afforable expensive high end isn't an oxymoron then what is?
yes, put a bunch of options and make a same afforable minivan into a high end minivan that competes against audi,bmw and mb.
Yes that makes sooo much sense!!

another one would be a "high end civic" against MB C/CLK and E class.

Civic: affordable- MB C/CLK and E class isn't.
civic fully loaded/acura csx: slightly less affordable - fully loaded MB C/CLK and E CLASS: can buy 2 to 3 fully loaded civic/acura csx
and finnally fully loaded MB R CLASS which push the price to almost 100k can get you 2 fully loaded Sienna based on MSRP.
so everyone who buys a MB for around 100k must have a brain tumor cause clearly they can buy 2 sienna.


inthe end if you u think high end minivan is not an oxymoron, then i don't know what it is.

[

3 pointed star really means german engineering,service and convinience.

In this case, apparently, it means "makes Stuttgart fanboys over-defensive."

Someone to join Barrie and ArcticSteve??

not at all..
I just think it's unfair to bash a car or even a brand that people clearly have no ideas.
and for your information,  i like and appriciate many different brand and models of cars that are
from europe, some from state and few from japan.( i don't have anything against them, it's just they make
such a uninspiring cars but wrx sti rocks!)

[jcon]

Dude, you own a minivan. That's what it is. Don't pretend it's something it's not. It's a premium minivan.

[gap4you]

I just walked by an R-Class today, and took a moment to check out the rear doors.

I didn't get out the tape measure or anything, but they didn't look abnormally huge to me. Certainly no bigger than the doors on a full-size pickup, and everybody somehow manages to get in and out of those in crowded parking lots.

they are not huge, just little heavy.

Really the only styling faux pas with the R I don't like is the front headlights with inboard turn signal / high beam / whatever function it serves. Awkward. Otherwise think they're styled pretty well. Inside they're spacious too. That's one hellava lot of Mercedes for the price, and efficient with the CDI.

Looks even better in AMG guise 

All that said, the GL is very appealing too. But the R gets all the negative vibes so am drawn to it.

Not many people likes wagons, atleast in NA so that's proberly why it's doing bad.
i heard in europe, R is doign pretty well, not sales sucess but well enough.
also, white and black GL looks very sexy; so much that i might consider switching it to a GL320 diesel this year.

[jcon]

so afforable expensive high end isn't an oxymoron then what is?
yes, put a bunch of options and make a same afforable minivan into a high end minivan that competes against audi,bmw and mb.
Yes that makes sooo much sense!!

another one would be a "high end civic" against MB C/CLK and E class.

Civic: affordable- MB C/CLK and E class isn't.
civic fully loaded/acura csx: slightly less affordable - fully loaded MB C/CLK and E CLASS: can buy 2 to 3 fully loaded civic/acura csx
and finnally fully loaded MB R CLASS which push the price to almost 100k can get you 2 fully loaded Sienna based on MSRP.
so everyone who buys a MB for around 100k must have a brain tumor cause clearly they can buy 2 sienna.


inthe end if you u think high end minivan is not an oxymoron, then i don't know what it is.

Touchy.

Sorry but a minivan does not necessarily mean cheap or low end (that's just plain dumb).

So you're comment about oxymoron does not stand.

[gap4you]

Dude, you own a minivan. That's what it is. Don't pretend it's something it's not. It's a premium minivan.

ok there, whatever you say.
now why are you in a auto forum again? clearly, your not here to ask question but say "dude you own a minivan".
wow very smart of you and good for you, i hope you have a blast with your accord =D

[gap4you]

so afforable expensive high end isn't an oxymoron then what is?
yes, put a bunch of options and make a same afforable minivan into a high end minivan that competes against audi,bmw and mb.
Yes that makes sooo much sense!!

another one would be a "high end civic" against MB C/CLK and E class.

Civic: affordable- MB C/CLK and E class isn't.
civic fully loaded/acura csx: slightly less affordable - fully loaded MB C/CLK and E CLASS: can buy 2 to 3 fully loaded civic/acura csx
and finnally fully loaded MB R CLASS which push the price to almost 100k can get you 2 fully loaded Sienna based on MSRP.
so everyone who buys a MB for around 100k must have a brain tumor cause clearly they can buy 2 sienna.


inthe end if you u think high end minivan is not an oxymoron, then i don't know what it is.

Touchy.

Sorry but a minivan does not necessarily mean cheap or low end (that's just plain dumb).

So you're comment about oxymoron does not stand.

ok tell me a minivan that cost more then 60k.
like how a subcompact size really always be subcompact price or are you saying there is a civic size car that cost
100k?

[jcon]

Dude, you own a minivan. That's what it is. Don't pretend it's something it's not. It's a premium minivan.

ok there, whatever you say.
now why are you in a auto forum again? clearly, your not here to ask question but say "dude you own a minivan".
wow very smart of you and good for you, i hope you have a blast with your accord =D

Oh I see, your minivan is greater than my Accord. Way to go!

ok tell me a minivan that cost more then 60k.
like how a subcompact size really always be subcompact price or are you saying there is a civic size car that cost
100k?

Mercedes R Class is a minivan. I believe its more than 60k. I'll check for you. Oh, heck why don't you just check your invoice.

Yes, the Audi RS4 is near 100k. Looks like a sedan to me.

Subcompact? Well, I don't know. I guess the S3 is more of a hatchback.

[jcon]

Look you paid a lot for your minivan, I suppose you can call it whatever you want. I don't know with the problem with minivans is though, not many people get so worked up about what their vehicle is classifies as.

[Ex-airbalancer]

R Series is a wagon

[Mitlov]

I've figured out the problem.  There are some automotive genres that simply describe a body type: "compact sedan."  There are other automotive genres that describe both a body type and some other characteristic, like price: "economy car."

The Civic and the RS4 are both compact sedans.  However, only the Civic is an economy car.

JCon and I consider "minivan" to be equivalent to "compact sedan"--a term that describes body type, but not price or luxury.  gap4you considers the term "minivan" to be equivalent to "economy car"--a term that describes both body style and price.

I think (hope) we can all agree that the R-Class is the same body style as the first-generation Odyssey, whatever you call that body style.  I think we can all agree that the R-Class is NOT the same price point or level of luxury as an Odyssey or Sienna.

gap4you, do you agree that an R-Class is the same body style as a first-generation Odyssey, even though it's not at the same price point or the same level of luxury or driving dynamics?

[johngenx]

Since when do size and vehicle type make a difference to the price? The 911 is a pretty small car, but not short on price.  AND IN FACT, the 911 is slighty SMALLER than the Civic.  Oh, but, you're right, it's not a $100K car.  More like a $125K-$150K car!

ok tell me a minivan that cost more then 60k.
like how a subcompact size really always be subcompact price or are you saying there is a civic size car that cost
100k?

Now put your "I paid over $60K for MY car" dick back in your pants.  No one wants to see it.

[dorin]

    Man, I've never seen anyone get so defensive about having bought a minivan before. 

[gap4you]

Dude, you own a minivan. That's what it is. Don't pretend it's something it's not. It's a premium minivan.

ok there, whatever you say.
now why are you in a auto forum again? clearly, your not here to ask question but say "dude you own a minivan".
wow very smart of you and good for you, i hope you have a blast with your accord =D

Oh I see, your minivan is greater than my Accord. Way to go!

ok tell me a minivan that cost more then 60k.
like how a subcompact size really always be subcompact price or are you saying there is a civic size car that cost
100k?

Mercedes R Class is a minivan. I believe its more than 60k. I'll check for you. Oh, heck why don't you just check your invoice.

Yes, the Audi RS4 is near 100k. Looks like a sedan to me.

Subcompact? Well, I don't know. I guess the S3 is more of a hatchback.

Look you paid a lot for your minivan, I suppose you can call it whatever you want. I don't know with the problem with minivans is though, not many people get so worked up about what their vehicle is classifies as.

well, the owners of RS4, M3 and c63 aren't gonna be so happy when thier car is been compare to a civic or any subcompact thats out there and beside RS4 are specialty vehical that only few are sold every year.(too tired to explain..figure it out by yourself if you care)
actully, there is a better idea to clarify all these, why don't you go to a store and buy yourself a candian buyers guide car magazine and see if RS4, m3 and C63 falls in a subcompact category and also while your there, why don't you check if R Class is in the minivan section.
maybe after that your claim about "R series is a expensive minivan" might hold some water if it falls into that category.

You know most auto journalist refer R series as a wagon style, suv like heigh with interior space as big as minivan and comfortable as a limo.

[gap4you]

Since when do size and vehicle type make a difference to the price? The 911 is a pretty small car, but not short on price.  AND IN FACT, the 911 is slighty SMALLER than the Civic.  Oh, but, you're right, it's not a $100K car.  More like a $125K-$150K car!

ok tell me a minivan that cost more then 60k.
like how a subcompact size really always be subcompact price or are you saying there is a civic size car that cost
100k?

Now put your "I paid over $60K for MY car" dick back in your pants.  No one wants to see it.

haha now your been funny.
you brign out a porsche? please give me a break, i don't know if you read just part of the thread all of them but
i was comparing to whats relevent, NOT A SPORTS CAR.


first of all, i don't remember bragging about what i paid for my car but feel offended from someone comparing to a minivan.
if you can't tell the difference then SHUT UP.

Bottom line: Compare what's comparable.

[gap4you]

I've figured out the problem.  There are some automotive genres that simply describe a body type: "compact sedan."  There are other automotive genres that describe both a body type and some other characteristic, like price: "economy car."

The Civic and the RS4 are both compact sedans.  However, only the Civic is an economy car.

JCon and I consider "minivan" to be equivalent to "compact sedan"--a term that describes body type, but not price or luxury.  gap4you considers the term "minivan" to be equivalent to "economy car"--a term that describes both body style and price.

I think (hope) we can all agree that the R-Class is the same body style as the first-generation Odyssey, whatever you call that body style.  I think we can all agree that the R-Class is NOT the same price point or level of luxury as an Odyssey or Sienna.

gap4you, do you agree that an R-Class is the same body style as a first-generation Odyssey, even though it's not at the same price point or the same level of luxury or driving dynamics?

well, sorry to tell you this but i seriously don't see the similarity unless you pin point to me exactly where it is.
I'm looking at it over and over and i don't see any lines,curves or even style that has any similarity with first gen honda odyssey but yes they both have 4 doors and thats the only similarity i can see.

[jcon]

well, the owners of RS4, M3 and c63 aren't gonna be so happy when thier car is been compare to a civic or any subcompact thats out there and beside RS4 are specialty vehical that only few are sold every year.(too tired to explain..figure it out by yourself if you care)

Actually I would say they are not as insecure as you are about what they drive.

I thought people bought vehicles for how they drive and how they make you feel (plus the whole point a to b thing ), not for what category they're in.
Oh and Civic is not a sub-compact, if categories matter.

[dorin]

I've figured out the problem.  There are some automotive genres that simply describe a body type: "compact sedan."  There are other automotive genres that describe both a body type and some other characteristic, like price: "economy car."

The Civic and the RS4 are both compact sedans.  However, only the Civic is an economy car.

JCon and I consider "minivan" to be equivalent to "compact sedan"--a term that describes body type, but not price or luxury.  gap4you considers the term "minivan" to be equivalent to "economy car"--a term that describes both body style and price.

I think (hope) we can all agree that the R-Class is the same body style as the first-generation Odyssey, whatever you call that body style.  I think we can all agree that the R-Class is NOT the same price point or level of luxury as an Odyssey or Sienna.

gap4you, do you agree that an R-Class is the same body style as a first-generation Odyssey, even though it's not at the same price point or the same level of luxury or driving dynamics?

well, sorry to tell you this but i seriously don't see the similarity unless you pin point to me exactly where it is.
I'm looking at it over and over and i don't see any lines,curves or even style that has any similarity with first gen honda odyssey but yes they both have 4 doors and thats the only similarity i can see.

  Thanks for the laughs. 

The R-Class and the first gen Odyssey are obviously the same type of vehicle and that's a minivan.  I still don't understand how anyone can get offended because others dare to compare his minivan with other minivans.

[gap4you]

well, the owners of RS4, M3 and c63 aren't gonna be so happy when thier car is been compare to a civic or any subcompact thats out there and beside RS4 are specialty vehical that only few are sold every year.(too tired to explain..figure it out by yourself if you care)

Actually I would say they are not as insecure as you are about what they drive.

I thought people bought vehicles for how they drive and how they make you feel (plus the whole point a to b thing ), not for what category they're in.
Oh and Civic is not a sub-compact, if categories matter.

haha, i don't think im insecure about what i drive.
i just wanted to make a point and explain the difference, i know how i said it might not be so pleasent as it should be and i apologies for that.

and your right, basicly ppls buy a vehical that makes them happy but sometime people do get offended by saying something thats not.

[Wolfe]

haha, i don't think im insecure about what i drive.

Dude, there's no shame in driving a minivan.

http://thebarefoot.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/my-minivan-is-a-chick-magnet/