Topic: CTS trumps 3-Series and C-Class in Consumer Reports test

[baumer00]

  Then why are we talking about comparing the CTS with the 3 series or C class?  Germany was a European country last time I checked...  You can't say it competes with the 3 or C because it is similarly priced and offers similar power, then turn around and claim it does not compete with the 5 or E because it is American and not German.

I think the buyer of a 5 and and E is far different than the buyer of a 3 or a C.  To me a 3 or C buyer is someone just trying to get into the luxury car ballpark, not typically brand identified, contrast that with someone putting out the $ for an E or 5 who I see as someone who wants a specific style/brand of car (ie european luxury).  Having said that, someone interested in getting into a luxury car (ie 3 or C) would likely consider many brands (opening the door to Cadillac), but a 5 or E buyer would not.

[rrocket]

For the longest time, people who were into Euro cars simply didn't cross shop the domestic brands. Mainly because the domestics had nothing to offer them.  Is that so difficult to understand?

Likewise you'll find many domestic people won't cross shop to Euro or japanese cars.

It's GM that is saying they are competition to the Germans...

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I agree with BJB, which is why reports and articles are published as to whether or not the CTS is successfully conquesting foreign owners or simply increasing sales to those who already buy American brands.

That said, vehicles like CTS are key to changing perception for consumers who would normally only consider Euro brands or perhaps Lexus/Infiniti. Over time with more exposure to the new models they may actually consider walking into a Caddy showroom next time around, but perceptions and image are tough to 'breakthrough'.

[initial_D]

For me to consider a CTC would a very good used car buy at under $30,000, otherwise, won't even consider them as new purchases. The Caddie/Lincoln cars have no appeal for some reason.

[The Mighty Duck]

It's GM that is saying they are competition to the Germans...

That comes down to how well the CTS competes with the Euro brands.  I think it would infinitely foolish to say that nobody out there has bought a CTS in lieu of a 5-series or E-class.  I'm also not sure why the base assumption would be that people would avoid the CTS in general based on continental bias - the car has been garnering extremely positive reviews since it came out, and has sold relatively well.  Breaking down whose buying them is harder, I'm sure, but I'm equally sure there's some overlap.

That said, vehicles like CTS are key to changing perception for consumers who would normally only consider Euro brands or perhaps Lexus/Infiniti. Over time with more exposure to the new models they may actually consider walking into a Caddy showroom next time around, but perceptions and image are tough to 'breakthrough'.

  People laughed at Toyota when they came to North America, and they laughed when Lexus was launched.  Now Toyota is the largest (or second?) automaker in the world, and Lexus is synonymous with luxury and comfort.  Cadillac's history is a little different, but I don't think they're being given enough credit here for the CTS.  The "I wouldn't buy it because it's not a Mercedes" attitude is very strange to me...

[Johnny Quest]

Speaking of bias/perception of quality, has anyone actually looked at how dismal mercedes quality is these days...

[ktm525]

Why do you say that?  Because it's a GM?  For someone to be looking at a 5/E, it suggests they are looking for a larger car than a 3-series.  The CTS is a far more suitable fit than the 3...  the BMW is very small in reality.

B/c I know a bunch of people with 5s and Es and I can tell you that they wouldn't consider the CTS - mostly due to GM/Cadillac reputation.

At the golf club I belong to the members are mostly older. A lot of luxury cars in the parking lot. Said owners of 5 series complain that the car barely holds enough luggage for a winter golfing trip down south (Phoenix) while the Mercedes owners (Eand S) tend to complain about the amount of times the car is in the shop and the cost of service. They sound like John Gen X. An interesting aspect is that the more money these guys have the tighter their wallets, cost is a BIG factor. Lots of Cadillacs in the lot too but mostly the older STS as they were bargains the last few years they were out.

[baumer00]

Why do you say that?  Because it's a GM?  For someone to be looking at a 5/E, it suggests they are looking for a larger car than a 3-series.  The CTS is a far more suitable fit than the 3...  the BMW is very small in reality.

B/c I know a bunch of people with 5s and Es and I can tell you that they wouldn't consider the CTS - mostly due to GM/Cadillac reputation.

At the golf club I belong to the members are mostly older. A lot of luxury cars in the parking lot. Said owners of 5 series complain that the car barely holds enough luggage for a winter golfing trip down south (Phoenix) while the Mercedes owners (Eand S) tend to complain about the amount of times the car is in the shop and the cost of service. They sound like John Gen X. An interesting aspect is that the more money these guys have the tighter their wallets, cost is a BIG factor. Lots of Cadillacs in the lot too but mostly the older STS as they were bargains the last few years they were out.

You raise an interesting point, I find that old people (such as the members at your club) still appreciate Cadillac (thankfully, it only took 2 STSs for my Mom to realize they suck) b/c that was the brand that people aspired to.  The problem GM faces is that these people are dinosaurs and aren't/won't be there much longer to support the brand, the CTS is a nice car, but they face such an uphill battle to win over new, younger buyers, it's going to take a few generations of cars like the CTS to do that (although they have done a masterful job with the Escalade, but that's a whole different segment).

[inco]

I am inclined to agree with you that it will be a tough climb for GM to get the Cadillac back up on top, or near there. The alternative is called Lincoln and who wants to go there.

Get those JD Power reports up there and CR reports and pretty soon it will happen. Even the mighty falter and cracks have been showing on the other side of the Atlantic and even a few potentials appearing across the Pacific.

GM just needs to make 'em exicting and good and with the CTS they are on the right track. The other two NA carcos have given up which helps provide incentive as well.

[tpl]

At the golf club I belong to the members are mostly older. A lot of luxury cars in the parking lot. Said owners of 5 series complain that the car barely holds enough luggage for a winter golfing trip down south (Phoenix) while the Mercedes owners (Eand S) tend to complain about the amount of times the car is in the shop and the cost of service. They sound like John Gen X. An interesting aspect is that the more money these guys have the tighter their wallets, cost is a BIG factor. Lots of Cadillacs in the lot too but mostly the older STS as they were bargains the last few years they were out.

And how do you think the affluent stay affluent ?   

[The Mighty Duck]

Good point about the aging demographic that aspires to own a Caddy.  I once met a customer and we got chatting about cars: he had two DTS', but he was in his late 60s at least.

I think the CTS does a good job of putting Cadillac on the radar for many younger buyers.  An entry-level car that competes directly with the 3 and C (which I hear is in the works) would help their case, too.

I think they also have a problem (slowly changing) with nobody buying the midlevel GM products.  Cadillac should be an upgrade for buyers of the Malibu, Astra, etc...  but if nobody buys those cars...

[johngenx]

Now that the German cars are junk in terms of build quality, why wouldn't Caddy be considered a prime competitor?  I bet the quality of the CTS is above many of the German cars.  I'd have it on my list if I was shopping MB, BMW and Audi...

[Mitlov]

I think the CTS does a good job of putting Cadillac on the radar for many younger buyers.

Here in the States, Caddy already IS on the radar for younger buyers...at least those who prefer audio entertainment of the hip hop variety.  This just gives them a really tempting sedan option instead of just the wildly popular Escalade and its variants.

[tpl]

The CTS is on my serious list as well but.... it is so big. a foot longer than a 3-er means I'd have to find somewhere else in my garage/house to store the winter tires... its that tight.   Maybe we should have "downsized" to a 3000 sq ft house not a 1400 sq ft house.

[The Mighty Duck]

New sub-CTS car is coming, should be closer in size to the 3. 

Mitlov: that's good news.  I've never been a GM fan, but the CTS is one car I absolutely love.  It would definitely make my short list against both the compact luxury and midsize luxury competition.  I tend to differentiate "Cadillac" and "Escalade", though...  all I can think of when I think of the Escalade is "Pimp My Ride".  Shame, because as large SUVs go it seems quite nice.

[barrie1]

I have been driving Caddi's for years and will take one of them over a import any time. I will be involved with a C-Class purchase starting in March-April I suspect as one of my kids is getting a new C-class for his job. His will be the luxury version and not the sports one as it is thousands of dollars cheaper to buy this way. I am sure it will be a nice car and hopefully reliable for him as well but I know he likes the Caddis as he always likes to drive mine for the last 20 years or so since he got his licence. You can price them all up or down with options over each other if you wish to really load them up but the ratings are very good on a the Caddi's right now and have been for years as well. The fuel milage is quite good even on the V8 engined ones as well with highway milage figures of around 35-38 MPG on some V8 engines on the highway. My 1991 4.9 engine gives me around 28-35 on average on the 401 at around 68-72 MPH. Of course the wind and weather do play a part on some trips but overall they are excellent. 

[The Mighty Duck]

His will be the luxury version and not the sports one as it is thousands of dollars cheaper to buy this way.

The sport package is FREE on the higher-end C class, and $800 on the base C230.

[barrie1]

I guess I missed posting that the car the kids are getting is the C300 model which is cheaper apparently in the luxury package. This is what they have told me so I go with what I have been told. If it is free of course they would take it in a heartbeat but not from what they have stated. At the moment they live in Portland Oregon but are in the process of moving back so there may even be a difference here versus there. They are coming home next month to buy a house and I will grill them at that time to learn more about it. It will be nice to see them way more often especially the 7 year old Grandson. 

[Mitlov]

I guess I missed posting that the car the kids are getting is the C300 model which is cheaper apparently in the luxury package. This is what they have told me so I go with what I have been told.

Well, they're being lied to.  In Canada, the C300 Sport and the C300 Luxury are the same price.  In the US, where it sounds like they might be buying it, the C300 Luxury is $1600 MORE than the C300 Sport.

http://www.mbusa.com

[barrie1]

Yes there's definitely a difference of around $1700. I believe on these prices. Thank You for pointing that out as I was unaware. Glad his Company is paying the freight on it which won't hurt his pocket at all. Either model should be a nice vehicle tho.