Topic: CTS trumps 3-Series and C-Class in Consumer Reports test

[Mitlov]

In their general testing (driving dynamics, interior quality, comfort, those sorts of things as opposed to reliability testing--obviously there is no reliability data yet on the 2008 CTS), Consumer Reports has ranked the 2008 CTS ahead of the 3-Series and C-Class in the "upscale sedan" category.  Overall, it came in third in the category, behind the Infiniti G35 and Acura TL but ahead of the Lexus IS, Acura TSX, C-Class, 3-Series, and A4.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/05/i-consumer-reports-i-ranks-cadillac-cts-above-bmw-mercedes/

Lutz must be a happy man tonight.

[GTI-Gabe]

Doesnt the CTS compete with the 5 Series and E Class?

I know price wise, it matches the entry level models (C Class, 3 Series), but size wise it compares to the 5 Series and E Class   

[rrocket]

I checked pricing and the CTS was MORE than a similarly equipped G35 sedan...which I thought was odd...

[The Mighty Duck]

Dynamically and according to GM, the CTS competes with the E-class, 5-series, etc.  Price wise, it competes with the C-class and 3-series.  rrocket, I'm not sure why you find it odd that the CTS is more than the G.  It's cheaper than its rival, the M.

[mmret]

Dynamically and according to GM, the CTS competes with the E-class, 5-series, etc.  Price wise, it competes with the C-class and 3-series.  rrocket, I'm not sure why you find it odd that the CTS is more than the G.  It's cheaper than its rival, the M.

Did you just contradict yourself?

You say the CTS competes with the 3 series / C-Class on price.
It is cheaper than the M, as it damn well should be, if it competes with a 3/C on price.
3 series and G35 compete with each other pretty much head on, dynamics and snack bracket (loaded 335 excepted).
Thusly I also find it odd if it would be significantly more pricey than a G35.

[rrocket]

In one US test...to get both cars similarly equipped, the CTS was $5K more...

[2JDM]

I am guessing, since its a GM, there is ALOT of room to negotiate off MSRP?

[rrocket]

Possibly.  In the Edmunds test, the CTS was nearly $8K more!!

[The Mighty Duck]

Did you just contradict yourself?

Only if you assume that "competes with" really means "must be cheaper then" - which is far from the case.  The CTS is an E-class/5-series competitor at a C-class/3-series price point.  But it seems that people ignore the former and simply complain that it's more expensive than the entry-level German cars.  If you compare its price to the prices its actual rivals, however, you find it is a very good deal.  People do cross-shop this car with the 3/C/G, but those people must not forget the CTS is really meant to compete with another class of cars before they complain about the price...

[Mitlov]

Dynamically and according to GM, the CTS competes with the E-class, 5-series, etc.

The CTS out-handled a C-Class (not E-Class) in a recent C&D shootout (it had better steering feel, too), so I wouldn't entirely agree with your dynamic assertion.  Though yes, GM is marketing it as a 5-Series/E-Class competitor.  (But then again, Toyota is marketing the Matrix as a "crossover" instead of a Corolla hatchback...don't always believe advertising departments).

The CTS is in a no-man's land between the C-Class and E-Class, between the 3-Series and 5-Series.  It doesn't totally complete with either.

[The Mighty Duck]

Again, "competes with" does not by default mean "must out-handle"...  The car was designed to compete with the E-class et al.  How well it does so is another story (and I've only seen a couple of tests, most compare it with the C-class and its ilk).

People will certainly shop it against the smaller cars (and they should, since its excellent value), but before complaining about it being more expensive, they must remember its really an E-class rival.

[Wetson]

The CTS is in a no-man's land between the C-Class and E-Class, between the 3-Series and 5-Series.  It doesn't totally complete with either.

   None the less.... is still a job well done by GM.

[baumer00]

GM may want it to compete with the 5 and E, but I sure don't think there's too many cross-shoppers, definetly agree with most on here that it is a competitor of the 3 and C

[sailor723]

GM may want it to compete with the 5 and E, but I sure don't think there's too many cross-shoppers, definetly agree with most on here that it is a competitor of the 3 and C

Maybe it's aimed at those who want a 5 or an E but whose budget says "C or 3" ?

[baumer00]

GM may want it to compete with the 5 and E, but I sure don't think there's too many cross-shoppers, definetly agree with most on here that it is a competitor of the 3 and C

Maybe it's aimed at those who want a 5 or an E but whose budget says "C or 3" ?

Good point.  I don't think that most of those who want a 5 or an E would move over to a CTS though, they'd probably go to a C or 3 or G35

[The Mighty Duck]

Why do you say that?  Because it's a GM?  For someone to be looking at a 5/E, it suggests they are looking for a larger car than a 3-series.  The CTS is a far more suitable fit than the 3...  the BMW is very small in reality.

[mmret]

Did you just contradict yourself?

Only if you assume that "competes with" really means "must be cheaper then" - which is far from the case.  The CTS is an E-class/5-series competitor at a C-class/3-series price point.  But it seems that people ignore the former and simply complain that it's more expensive than the entry-level German cars.  If you compare its price to the prices its actual rivals, however, you find it is a very good deal.  People do cross-shop this car with the 3/C/G, but those people must not forget the CTS is really meant to compete with another class of cars before they complain about the price...

I don't assume "competes with" really means "must be cheaper than". But $8k is hardly a chump change difference. You can't compete with something on price and simultaneously cost $8k more.

[baumer00]

Why do you say that?  Because it's a GM?  For someone to be looking at a 5/E, it suggests they are looking for a larger car than a 3-series.  The CTS is a far more suitable fit than the 3...  the BMW is very small in reality.

B/c I know a bunch of people with 5s and Es and I can tell you that they wouldn't consider the CTS - mostly due to GM/Cadillac reputation.

[rrocket]

Agreed.  Generally, those looking at Euro cars didn't cross shop with American brands.

[The Mighty Duck]

  Then why are we talking about comparing the CTS with the 3 series or C class?  Germany was a European country last time I checked...  You can't say it competes with the 3 or C because it is similarly priced and offers similar power, then turn around and claim it does not compete with the 5 or E because it is American and not German.

I don't assume "competes with" really means "must be cheaper than". But $8k is hardly a chump change difference. You can't compete with something on price and simultaneously cost $8k more.

That would matter if the CTS was intended to be a competitor for the C or whatever.  The reason people cross shop them is because they are priced in the same region - based on the class of car, the CTS is a competitor for the larger offerings.

Not to mention, the G35 competes with the BMW 335, despite a $10 000 difference in their starting price.  They offer similar size and power...  you're telling me people don't cross shop them?  Then this guy must be a troll, eh?