Topic: Which subwoofer is better

[2latecrew]

Not to sound loike an audio snob but an 8 inch Sub isn't really a sub woofer at all. Especially if the low frequency extension down to 30-35hz. There are many floor standing speakers" that easily go down to 40hz. Save another $100 or so and buy a used 12 inch sub or if you must buy new s decent 10 inch one.

Something that goes down closer to 20hz and that you'll get bass instead of boom.

2late: I agree that a true sub should be able to hit 25hz with ease but I think you missed the OP’s request of inexpensive (<$300) subwoofer. Try finding a sub for under $300 that can truly reach 20hz let alone 25hz flat, I don’t think they are out there and if it is, I’ll buy two. The Energy is rated -3db @ 27hz which is really good for this price point. Plus the OP is only looking for something to only fill out the bass from the other speakers, not something that will play pipe organ music with clarity. This sub should excel at the OP’s request.

Also, just because a sub does not reach 20hz it does not mean it will be boomy….that would be a function of poor design. There are lots of great subs out there that are only 8 or 10 inches that sound amazing, quick and tight when listening to music, everybody doesn’t need a sub to play big movie explosions at 120db so their windows blow out. Personally, I would take quality over quantity. Of course, 20 years ago, it was a different story. 

With respect to floor standing speakers that can truly go down to 40hz, these also cost good money but  if they are cheap, you will also get a boomy sound.

But thats just my opinion 

And a very well educated opinion it is...I could not have replied any better than that to the previous somewhat pretentious (sorry man, no offence) comment. So many popular misconceptions out there about audio. Bigger is not always better...I would put up my "little" 8 inch subwoofer against many 10-12 inch subwoofers any day. Car audio is not the same as home audio and nowhere near as accurate, 2late.
My neighbours across the street have told me they can feel some slight tremors in their house when we are watching a movie with explosions and such. Quality counts.

Man, this is so "Saf" loaded, I'll just wait for him to respond to this one

I am well aware of the difference between car audio and wome audio and that bigger is not always better.

My current home theatre sub is a Paradigm PW2200 12 inch sub. My previous sub as a 10 inch Paradigm 10 inch PDR 10. I'd love to move to say a servo 15 some day to really feel your insides turn to jelly during a movie like Transformers. Admittedly my sub cost quite a bit more than 249 but I'd certainly welcome someone putting their little 8 inch sub up against it  Just like anything there are some decent 8 inch subs. HSU makes one. But I simply find most of the cheap stuff they sell at FS simply sounds uncontrolled and boomy. More $ doesn't necesarrily buy louder or lower but it buys more control and accuracy for sure. Many companies are now producing small (10 inch small footprint) subs that have truly amazing performance but like cars there really is no replacement for displacment. A 250$ 8 inch sub simply can't move enough air to pressurize even a medium size room.

Canadian speaker makers make some very good speakers for very good prices. Paradigm, PSB Energy all make speakers that perfom. Unfortunatly we kinda get the short end in Canada becuae the best performance bargin SUBs are all US based internet order which becuase of size (shipping costs) duty etc tend to be far less of a bargin in Canada SVS or HSU.

[quadzilla]

SVS has a dealer out of Toronto now.

http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/default.aspx

[2latecrew]

A 250$ 8 inch sub simply can't move enough air to pressurize even a medium size room.

I dissagree, I have a smallish home theater room and I find my moderately priced 8" sub rattling the house (the house is 2,500sqft - all on one floor). I love good powerful bass, but I don't need it to make me puke...must be my age.

Rattling doesn't denote pressurization. Rattling is simply parts of your home resonating at a certain frequncy. I've got a little 6 inch "sub" attched to my TV as part of some high end computer speaker in my living room. If I turn it up lots of things "rattle" but I can assure you its not pressurizing the room and you don't feel the same whomp in your chest you do from a better sub.

[quadzilla]

Scroll down to "Has all the key SVS demo standards ready for you!" (about half way) for some reference scenes.

http://www.svsound.com/questions-faqs.cfm

I've used these dvds many a times for demos to friends.

"Fight Club" Dark, brutal, shocking. And that's just the bass. Strong below 10Hz. Take your gloves off.  Wimpy subs don't even try this.

   1. "THX Intro" *
   2. "Mid-air collision" Chapter 8 (0:21:39)*
   3. "Ass-whippin" Chapter 9 (0:21:59)
   4. "Calling Marla" Chapter 10 (0:27:29)*
   5. "Fridge explosion" Chapter 10 (0:27:35)*
   6. "Car wreck" Chapter 27 (1:40:28)*
   7. "My eyes are open" Chapter 35 (2:13:00)
   8. "Final explosions" Chapter 36 (2:15:31)*

"Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Rings" Those not familiar with the story will have to pay attention very closely... or don't bother ...and just bask in state of the art sound and some of the deepest bass yet put on DVD.

   1. "Ring drops", Scene 1 (0:03:49)*
   2. "Sauron Explodes", Scene 1 (0:04:04)*
   3. "Skeleton falls into well", Scene 8 (0:27:39)*

"Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers" A rare thing, a sequel that's done at least as well as its predecessor.  With stunning siege and battle scenes, and naturally, bass worthy of the SVS "Bassy Scenes" Hall of Fame.
         1. "Gandalf falls", Scene 1 (0:02:48)*
         2. "Black riders", Scene 14 (0:49:42)*
         3. "Gandalf slays Balrog", Scene 15 (0:53:54)*
         4. "Oliphants charge", Scene 30 (1:44:52)*

"Lord of the Rings: Return of the King" The epic finale of the famed Lord of the Rings trilogy.  If your sub can handle this DVD it really is "precious".
         1. "Green light" Chapter 11 (0:41:40)*
         2. "Undead King" Chapter 27 (01:27:22)*
         3. "Shelob" Chapter 33 (01:51:40)*
         4. "Olephant charge, again" Chapter 42 (2:12:48)*
         5. "Mount Doom" Chapter 53 (2:40:50)*

Of course the depth charge scene in U571 is always a jaw dropper if you don't blow up your sub at the same time. 

If you have a BD player and like Gypsy/Dixieland/whatever it is, check out this title from Bruce Springsteen (don't expect his regular stuff here).

Bruce Springsteen with the Sessions Band: Live in Dublin (Blu-ray)
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=432

It sounds great and the bass is really tight and natural.

[quadzilla]

Mick Fleetwood's drumming on the opening song, "The Chain" on their "The Dance" reunion cd...just beautiful.

I keep meaning to pick that one up but never have. Is the whole DVD good?

Here is a better list for sub-reference material.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755493

Note some have parts below 15HZ and WOTW has 5HZ

[2latecrew]

SVS has a dealer out of Toronto now.

http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/default.aspx

Thanks for this. I did not know about this. The sub I would be interested in is 979 from Canada vs 899 in the US but shipping to me in NS would only $60 and you have no issues with duty or brokerage etc. That seems very reasonable to me. Total price US vs canada would be very close. I think I might just put my PW2200 up for sale 

[quadzilla]

SVS has a dealer out of Toronto now.

http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/default.aspx

Thanks for this. I did not know about this. The sub I would be interested in is 979 from Canada vs 899 in the US but shipping to me in NS would only $60 and you have no issues with duty or brokerage etc. That seems very reasonable to me. Total price US vs canada would be very close. I think I might just put my PW2200 up for sale 

Are you looking at the 20-39PC-Plus Cylinder Subwoofer? I've wondered about these cylinder models as I don't have a lot of room and this could work better for me. I don't need a new sub but just want one.

[2latecrew]

SVS has a dealer out of Toronto now.

http://www.sonicboomaudio.com/default.aspx

Thanks for this. I did not know about this. The sub I would be interested in is 979 from Canada vs 899 in the US but shipping to me in NS would only $60 and you have no issues with duty or brokerage etc. That seems very reasonable to me. Total price US vs canada would be very close. I think I might just put my PW2200 up for sale 

Are you looking at the 20-39PC-Plus Cylinder Subwoofer? I've wondered about these cylinder models as I don't have a lot of room and this could work better for me. I don't need a new sub but just want one.

Yes that would be the one. I can't see spending the extra 700 to go to the Ultra even though its a termendous performer. That would be overkill in my room. I'm in the same boat. I don't NEED a new sub. The PW2200 performs quite well. But the SVS is just that much better. The funny thing is that making them as a cylinder was not only done for space considerations. If you want to save space you can get cube subwoofers with lots of eq technology that go low. They are expensive. The tube doesn't need all the internal bracing a box sub does. So its cheaper to produce and (in online ordered subs) more importantly much lighter. The equivialnt SVS Tube sub costs HALF f what a box sub does in shipping. There is really no good reason to spend extra $ and shipping on a box style SVS UNLESS its for cosmetic pusposes. My HT is in a romm in my basement and I really don't care if I have a big black box or a big black tube in the corner. Its not there to look at when the lights are out watching a movie. If it was in my living room no way would the wife allow a big black tube in the corner. 

[safristi]

so where does she let ya stand inna living room..........

[quadzilla]

2late: If you get one, let me know. Since I can just order it and pick it up shipping isn't a factor for me.

I'm still running a Polk PSW-650 from over 10 years ago....it has never caused me any grief so it has never been replaced. I don't need more power as I can't play it loud do to neighbors, just a good balance and deep tight bass. I'd consider anything around $1K so this would be right on the mark.

[wing]

The PW2200 is a pretty good sub, but not to my liking I found it was a little muddy.

When I was looking I demoed in my home a bunch of subs and end up with a Velodyne CHT-15, I've tested it against dual SVS 12" woofers as well and it was a very close battle.  The CHT-15 was a bargain at only $950 or so at the time.  The Paradigm Servo 15 slightly better but too much $ for me.

[quadzilla]

Tips on buying a subwoofer:

http://www.electronichouse.com/article/buying_the_right_subwoofer/

In a high-quality, properly calibrated system, the bass is authoritative and completely integrated with the rest of the music. You might think that the subwoofer is not playing at all—until you turn it off and realize how much you’d be missing without it. If the subwoofer calls attention to itself with boomy sound that seems separate from the rest of the music, or if you can easily figure out where it is in the room, something is not right.

[quadzilla]

2late: If you get one, let me know. Since I can just order it and pick it up shipping isn't a factor for me.

I'm still running a Polk PSW-650 from over 10 years ago....it has never caused me any grief so it has never been replaced. I don't need more power as I can't play it loud do to neighbors, just a good balance and deep tight bass. I'd consider anything around $1K so this would be right on the mark.

I was helping another guy in the office with some HT equipment and it got my head thinking again. Since we couldn't go out of town over the weekend so I went and picked up a new sub instead.

I looked at the cylinder models buy my partner said NO very quickly to it. I will admit, they don't have that nice 'wood' look to them as the outside was covered with what looked like black patio/balcony grass.

I wished I took a picture of it in the wagon as it was huge! No troubles getting it in there (with the help of the guy from the store) as I only had to fold down one seat and slide it in.

Got it home, unpacked it, put it where the old sub was. Didn't like the sound (never did like that spot but I'm limited due to space) so I moved around some furniture while the Mrs was out. Got it in the perfect corner, recalibrate it and was started to like it. Looked at the furniture that I moved and knew right away, this will not go over and I was right. As soon as she got home, BOOM and that was the new sub making noise.    After some screaming and yelling we settle on a new location for the sub. It is now there and while it still is a good location it isn't as good as the best corner I just had it in. Life is full of compromises.

I'm still fine tuning but I will say that I do like it so far and it is better (should be) than my 10 year old Polk Audio sub. Much more flatter and deeper and able to play that much louder (not that I can). The box is easily twice the size and I'm sure the amp/driver are all better also. The one thing that impressed me, it cost me about the same as I paid for my Polk 10 years ago! You have to love that. I will say one thing, that old Polk never let me know and still sounded pretty good.

Here is the new one > http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

Old on the left, new on the right.

[safristi]

  ya could park a Sub_Compact in there....   Boom...BOOM BOOM......BOOM.....................

[toolatecrew]

2late: If you get one, let me know. Since I can just order it and pick it up shipping isn't a factor for me.

I'm still running a Polk PSW-650 from over 10 years ago....it has never caused me any grief so it has never been replaced. I don't need more power as I can't play it loud do to neighbors, just a good balance and deep tight bass. I'd consider anything around $1K so this would be right on the mark.

I was helping another guy in the office with some HT equipment and it got my head thinking again. Since we couldn't go out of town over the weekend so I went and picked up a new sub instead.

I looked at the cylinder models buy my partner said NO very quickly to it. I will admit, they don't have that nice 'wood' look to them as the outside was covered with what looked like black patio/balcony grass.

I wished I took a picture of it in the wagon as it was huge! No troubles getting it in there (with the help of the guy from the store) as I only had to fold down one seat and slide it in.

Got it home, unpacked it, put it where the old sub was. Didn't like the sound (never did like that spot but I'm limited due to space) so I moved around some furniture while the Mrs was out. Got it in the perfect corner, recalibrate it and was started to like it. Looked at the furniture that I moved and knew right away, this will not go over and I was right. As soon as she got home, BOOM and that was the new sub making noise.    After some screaming and yelling we settle on a new location for the sub. It is now there and while it still is a good location it isn't as good as the best corner I just had it in. Life is full of compromises.

I'm still fine tuning but I will say that I do like it so far and it is better (should be) than my 10 year old Polk Audio sub. Much more flatter and deeper and able to play that much louder (not that I can). The box is easily twice the size and I'm sure the amp/driver are all better also. The one thing that impressed me, it cost me about the same as I paid for my Polk 10 years ago! You have to love that. I will say one thing, that old Polk never let me know and still sounded pretty good.

Here is the new one > http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

Old on the left, new on the right.

Nice very nice. That sub is a lot of bang (or should I say boom) for the buck. There really ins't much out there that will beat it at that price in Canada (HSU chrages insane fees and you must ship to US for warranty at your cost) Epik will not ship to Canada. Which mostly leaves B&M brands like aradigm or Energy but no $699 B&M sub is going to touch that SVS. It has a big 4 inch port and will move a lot of a ir and it goes down to around 18hz no problem. But yeah big boxes are an issue. Its too bad your SO is so against cylinders as they take up so much less floorspace that you can place them fairly easily. Placment is always a compromise but as long as you aren't forced into placing it where there is a huge null (hole) in the response not placing it in the "best" coner may actually give you smoother bass at the cost of a few Db in output from corner loading. Given the output iof that SVS you probaly won't miss it since I doubt you'll use it loud enough to overdrive it.

I did not end up ordering an SVS . I have this on order http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw_15_1

I've been waiting about a month for it to be built. I went with a cylinder so I could place it just about anywhere other than undermy screen. A box would have been big. Its my room so my wife doesn't care or really get a say. Heck you don't see it with lights out watching a movie anyways. I may have little concern that my foundation may crack in my 17 X 14 room with a 15 woofer and 1300 watts. Its a native 21 hz tune but I may be able to use the 12hz tune since output in my room won't be an issue. I'll post more when it finally (come on HURRRRYYY) shows up

[quadzilla]

Nice very nice. That sub is a lot of bang (or should I say boom) for the buck. There really ins't much out there that will beat it at that price in Canada (HSU chrages insane fees and you must ship to US for warranty at your cost) Epik will not ship to Canada. Which mostly leaves B&M brands like aradigm or Energy but no $699 B&M sub is going to touch that SVS. It has a big 4 inch port and will move a lot of a ir and it goes down to around 18hz no problem. But yeah big boxes are an issue. Its too bad your SO is so against cylinders as they take up so much less floorspace that you can place them fairly easily. Placment is always a compromise but as long as you aren't forced into placing it where there is a huge null (hole) in the response not placing it in the "best" coner may actually give you smoother bass at the cost of a few Db in output from corner loading. Given the output iof that SVS you probaly won't miss it since I doubt you'll use it loud enough to overdrive it.

I did not end up ordering an SVS . I have this on order http://www.funkywaves.net/catalog.cfm?item=fw_15_1

I've been waiting about a month for it to be built. I went with a cylinder so I could place it just about anywhere other than undermy screen. A box would have been big. Its my room so my wife doesn't care or really get a say. Heck you don't see it with lights out watching a movie anyways. I may have little concern that my foundation may crack in my 17 X 14 room with a 15 woofer and 1300 watts. Its a native 21 hz tune but I may be able to use the 12hz tune since output in my room won't be an issue. I'll post more when it finally (come on HURRRRYYY) shows up

Thanks....I was almost ready to drop the coin on the bad boy BP13-Ultra but thought it would be more than overkill for our little space. I even looked at the Plus series and couldn't find a good reason to even move up to that. I'm sure I already have enough sub for the next 3 apts beside us.

I think my neighbours will agree that not corner loading the sub is a great idea....I'll have to play with it over the next couple of weeks but I'm really limited on locations to put it. When our RP_CRT blows up we can get a LCD/Plasma and that will clear up some space as we can get a cabinet under the tv vs beside.

Now yours looks amazing. 57 inches tall by 20 wide    That thing is a monster and should sound great. And a 12Hz tune with 1300 watts! Holy crap....not only is your foundation going to crumble, so will your house, china, windows.

I'd love to hear Cloverfield or War of the Worlds on that.

Are you running a BD player?

[toolatecrew]

Yes I have a BD player (PS3) as well as an HD DVD player (with about 30 HD DVDs). I am trying to decide what will be my first full movie. Obviously somthing with an HD uncompressed soundtrack. I have Blackhawk down on BR but also Batman Begins on HD DVD. I may try to pickup Master and Comander on BD if I can find it on sale. I think front runner right now is Transformers.

I had a 10 inch sub years back then a 12 Inch PW2200 for the last 5 or 6 years but it still doesn't hit as hard as I would like. It may be the room (as I know that in certain postions there is a big hole around 40HZ. I really wanted this next sub to be something I will not have any desire to upgrade until we move (if then) so its got to last 5-7 years. I looked seriously at the Ultra but its got a big foorprint limiting my placment and it would have been $300-$400 more than what I am getting. An SVS plaus would have been a big improvment but for an extra couple hundred I figured why not go to something equal to an Ultra. I really wanted to go to a 15 inch sub that would move enough air to feel. Yeah its probaly overkill in my 1600 cubic foot room. Yeah I probaly will get told to turn it down whenever the kids are in bed. But for those 3-4 hours a week when I have the house to myself its gonna be sweet. Once I nail/glue down all the zillion rattles I'm going to find.

[quadzilla]

Don't know if Transformers on BD will get in here in time but I just read a review today about it.

Dynamic range is extensive as there are transient peaks that could be potentially threatening to some systems at reference levels.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1057518

They ended up using Dolby True_HD for it. I can't wait to pick this up. But if you already have it on HD_DVD then no real need to pick it up.

I'm sure you have seen this thread on AVS...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755493

I noticed that "Shoot em UP" is the bass movie fo the month. We watched that with the old sub and it was great, might have to give it a try again.

I think you made a better choice than the Ultra for your environment plus it costs less.

Yeah I probaly will get told to turn it down whenever the kids are in bed. But for those 3-4 hours a week when I have the house to myself its gonna be sweet. Once I nail/glue down all the zillion rattles I'm going to find.

I know exactly what you are talking about. My week is filled with getting ready for holiday and the Olympics (volleyball) so little if any listening time available and then we are gone for a week. Its ok as I'll have all winter to listen to my new toy.

[toolatecrew]

Don't know if Transformers on BD will get in here in time but I just read a review today about it.

Dynamic range is extensive as there are transient peaks that could be potentially threatening to some systems at reference levels.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1057518

They ended up using Dolby True_HD for it. I can't wait to pick this up. But if you already have it on HD_DVD then no real need to pick it up.

I'm sure you have seen this thread on AVS...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755493

I noticed that "Shoot em UP" is the bass movie fo the month. We watched that with the old sub and it was great, might have to give it a try again.

I think you made a better choice than the Ultra for your environment plus it costs less.

Yeah I probaly will get told to turn it down whenever the kids are in bed. But for those 3-4 hours a week when I have the house to myself its gonna be sweet. Once I nail/glue down all the zillion rattles I'm going to find.

I know exactly what you are talking about. My week is filled with getting ready for holiday and the Olympics (volleyball) so little if any listening time available and then we are gone for a week. Its ok as I'll have all winter to listen to my new toy.

Good point. I had forgotten that the Audio on Transformers HD DVD is actually Dolby Digity + and not uncompressed. Its still impressive but its not the be all and end all. I won't be shelling out $30 for Transformers on BR when I paid like $10 for my HD copy. The video is the same so Megan Fox doesn't look any hotter in BR (I don't know how she could).

Shoot em up is definiatly a reference disc and a fun movie. I may even be temted to look for a cheap BR copy of Underworld. Like the movie and if you want bass it has it in spades.

Just got an email the materials for my sub were delayed but it should ship by month end. It will take a week to ship from BC (obviously its a big box. The anticipation will kill me.

[wing]

I remember when SVS first started.  I met up with a local dude that bought 2 of them and we carted them to my house to compare against my Velodyn 15, they sounded different than each other but we couldn't decide on which was better.