Author Topic: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'  (Read 31058 times)

Offline huota

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2008, 12:45:40 pm »

Most tiny cars seem to rely on airbags and electronic stabilization programs for safety. Since this one doesn't have any, it is bound to be less safe. However, once small spacious cars gain wider acceptance, their perceived safety will improve.


I think most tiny cars rely on advanced body structure for safety before anything else. The ESP, ABS, EBD, AWD and not even airbags and seatbelts alone could save you when hit by another vehicle.
Clarkson crashed a Smart in a concrete block at high speed and the cage was almost intact. I recall he opened the doors after the crash without difficulty. Now, that's what I call crash safety.


Are you referring to this test by Fifth Gear?. It is a horrible crash at 70 mph, but the smart car's body structure stays remarkably intact. I suppose a passenger's body would absorb most of the impact forces, though. Ouch...
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Offline Serniter

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2008, 01:03:13 pm »
Though the Nano's body structure is probably not as advanced as the Smart's, I wouldn't discount it too much. Tata is one of the World's largest producer of steel and has several years of experience building automobiles. In any case, it would compare favorably with the car it aims to undercut:
 
http://www.maruti800.com/

Offline Dante

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2008, 12:35:10 am »

Most tiny cars seem to rely on airbags and electronic stabilization programs for safety. Since this one doesn't have any, it is bound to be less safe. However, once small spacious cars gain wider acceptance, their perceived safety will improve.


I think most tiny cars rely on advanced body structure for safety before anything else. The ESP, ABS, EBD, AWD and not even airbags and seatbelts alone could save you when hit by another vehicle.
Clarkson crashed a Smart in a concrete block at high speed and the cage was almost intact. I recall he opened the doors after the crash without difficulty. Now, that's what I call crash safety.


Are you referring to this test by Fifth Gear?. It is a horrible crash at 70 mph, but the smart car's body structure stays remarkably intact. I suppose a passenger's body would absorb most of the impact forces, though. Ouch...

Yes it is. It's been a while since I last saw this video so I stand corrected - it wasn't Clarkson.

The passengers wouldn't be thrilled to be in that car, but they may have a chance to survive. OTOH, in Tata's Nano .... well... I don't know. The rear passengers would be airborne for sure (no seatbelts), but the trouble is where? There is no room to go so I guess they would end up in small pieces. Luckily, Nano wouldn't reach 70 mph ...LOL

Offline Dante

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2008, 12:45:27 am »
Though the Nano's body structure is probably not as advanced as the Smart's, I wouldn't discount it too much. Tata is one of the World's largest producer of steel and has several years of experience building automobiles. In any case, it would compare favorably with the car it aims to undercut:
 
http://www.maruti800.com/


The question is how much technology could you buy for $2500 even with the low production costs?
The car may be safe and great by the Indian standards, but for the rest of the world it cannot work.

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2008, 01:11:34 am »
You can build them online now. Customize your Nano at http://www.tatapeoplescar.com/tatamotors/

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2008, 01:59:13 am »
The question is how much technology could you buy for $2500 even with the low production costs?
The car may be safe and great by the Indian standards, but for the rest of the world it cannot work.

That goes without saying. It would of course have to be better equip and faster. Say around 6,000 bucks. I'm thinking Perodua Kelisa. I think a lot of people would buy a Kelisa here at that price. Anyway who knows the Implications this Nano might cause. :)

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2008, 11:34:58 am »
 yeah let them eat Kayak.................... ??? ::) :P
Time is to stop everything happening at once

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2008, 04:32:15 pm »
How Tata built the $2,500 car

'Zealous' suppliers may have assembled new way to design low-cost cars here

Jesse Snyder
Automotive News
January 14, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

NEW DELHI — Tata Motors' celebrated $2,500 minicar — rolled out here last week to global fascination — pools the clean-sheet, cost-cutting ideas of dozens of suppliers, and might be a blueprint for how to design low-cost cars in America.

This is not a doorless, motorized rickshaw with canvas top — the kind of ultracheap transportation some cynics expected to see Tata show at the Auto Expo here. Instead, the Tata Nano is a stylish four-door, five-passenger vehicle, about 23 inches shorter than a Honda Fit. And Tata Chairman Ratan Tata says the company nailed its now-famous price target.

How? With a concept some analysts describe as "Gandhian engineering" for its extreme frugality. The Indian automaker turned legions of eager suppliers loose on a challenge, using an unconventional but highly focused process.

"Everybody is unusually zealous," said Mohan Narayanan, head of application engineering for Federal-Mogul Goetze (India).

After years of secrecy, details of the vehicle emerged last week. As expected, Tata left no cost-cutting stone unturned.

For example, the 33-hp, 50-mpg Nano has a single windshield wiper; and the base model has no radio, power steering, power windows or air conditioning. The instrument panel is rudimentary — just speedometer, odometer and fuel gauge. The 12-inch wheels need just three lug nuts. To save cost and weight, the Nano's 624cc, two-cylinder gasoline engine has a single balance shaft instead of one per cylinder.

Ratan Tata said that the base price to dealers would indeed be 100,000 rupees (1 lakh), or about $2,554 at current exchange rates. But he said that didn't include the car's 12.5 percent value-added tax or delivery charge. And Tata expects to sell better-equipped versions for a lot more.

The Nano would not pass U.S. emissions or safety standards and will not be shipped to the United States. But Western automakers could mine its cost-cutting ideas and philosophies.

Tata and its parts makers, including several Western companies, ignored a host of assumptions about how to design, build and source vehicles. Indeed, suppliers stepped up, getting involved early and innovating from the ground up.

"We had about 100 suppliers on the project that made as big a contribution as our own development team," said Girish Wagh, head of Tata's 500-person Nano development group for the past four years.

Teeny Tata
How tiny is Tata's new Nano? Here are the numbers.
Length: 122.1 in.
Width: 59.1 in.
Height: 63.0 in.
Seats: 5
Engine: 2-cylinder, 624cc
Horsepower: 33
Top speed: 64 mph
Fuel economy: 50 mpg
Curb weight: 1,278 lbs.

Art of the possible

Tata Motors CEO Ravi Kant said it was easy to pick Nano suppliers.

"Some get the target challenge, and some say it is impossible," Kant said. "Bosch Automotive CEO Bernd Bohr took the challenge and said 'yes, we'll do it.' "

Bosch won several major contracts by redesigning mature technologies into new products that are smaller, lighter and less complex, said Ninan Philip, deputy general manager of Bosch Mico Motor Industries in Bangalore, India.

For example, Bosch's 35-amp generator for the Nano weighs about 12 pounds, slightly smaller than the normal 40-amp, 13-pound model.

Bosch also adapted a motorcycle starter motor for the Nano to save more weight, said Sanjay Khatri, Bosch senior sales manager.

And Bosch didn't just remove 700 of the 1,000 functions of its European-market engine control module; it shrank the electronic chip and its housing. The German supplier also redesigned sensors to reduce size and weight.

The redesigned throttle-position sensor can be half the size because Bosch substituted a more sensitive material in the pressure plate.

By reducing the weight to 1,278 pounds for the base Nano, the car needs less equipment to operate, said Wagh. The engine can have two cylinders instead of three or four.

The approach works elsewhere, too. Small 65R12 tires and wheels use less material.

Early involvement

Suppliers got involved early. Rico, an Indian engine-block and cylinder-head caster, advised Tata even before the project team decided whether the Nano's base engine would be two or three cylinders.

"The range was from 550cc to 750cc," said Vikas Saxena, Rico's assistant general manager for business development and project management. "So when the answer was 624cc, it was a very close decision on how many cylinders to use."

Other cost-saving ideas went into the project. For example, Tata may bypass dealers and sell cars directly to buyers, to reduce logistics costs. Instead of shipping finished cars to dealers, it would ship kits of mostly assembled modules to satellite minifactories that would complete assembly. Buyers would pick up the cars at the factory gate.

Tata picked an undeveloped state in eastern India to build the Nano plant. The West Bengal regional government streamlined the construction process for the Singur site and leased the site to Tata for free.

The Nano will go on sale in India this year. Initial capacity will be 250,000 units annually, but Tata is considering export to countries in Africa, Southeast Asia, Latin America and Europe. Nano suppliers say they have been told to prepare for India production capacity in incremental stages of up to 500,000 — and up to 500,000 more for global markets.

Ratan Tata acknowledged last week that he sometimes doubted the automaker would hit its price target or timetable. But he challenged a journalist's reference to Tata's "1 lakh" price promise.

"I never made that promise; the media did," he said, recounting how his low-cost car project became the "1-lakh car" only after a headline writer called it that.

"But I kept the name as a way to challenge us."
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Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2008, 05:14:34 pm »
And Bosch didn't just remove 700 of the 1,000 functions of its European-market engine control module; it shrank the electronic chip and its housing. The German supplier also redesigned sensors to reduce size and weight.

Nice to see German engineers actually can simplify things.

Offline Schmengie

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2008, 09:02:32 pm »
And Bosch didn't just remove 700 of the 1,000 functions of its European-market engine control module; it shrank the electronic chip and its housing. The German supplier also redesigned sensors to reduce size and weight.

Nice to see German engineers actually can simplify things.

Too late to do Uncle Adolf any good, thank God.  :rofl: :rofl:
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Offline infinitime

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2008, 02:57:04 pm »
Kudos to Tata for coming up with an innovative and affordable design for the developing world.  As many have already mentioned, it is not fair to compare the Nano to western offerings costing several time more in price.  Sure, the safety standards are not up to par with western-market cars, but its most direct competitors are not cars per se, but rather overloaded scooters and motorcycles, which is the mainstream mode of travel for many families in India, China, and the rest of the developing world.  In that regard, the Nano is a definite improvement in safety and practicality, for not much more money (various Yamaha and Honda scooters often sell for $2,000+ in these markets, with Chinese makes selling for $1,500 or so)

Tata's offering though, does raise an interesting question as to its marketability outside of India.  The $2,500 model covered by the press is the bare-bones model, with no options or any of the frills one would find on even such a base model.  Realistically, with modest options such as air conditioning (given much of its target market is in tropic areas), radio, and whatever other minimalist options it may off, I can imagine the price coming closer to $3,500, before taxes.   

While this is by no means a huge amount of money by western standards, there are other contenders in that price range.  The Chinese manufacturer Geely "Merry" for example, sells its base model 4-door hatchback for about $3,800US.  Notwithstanding the rather unfortunate name, this model is a conventional Yaris-sized hatchback with a 1.3L fuel-injected 4 cylinder.  Certainly by no means leading technology, but it does offer what appears to be decent value:  http://www.geely.com/product.do?method=single&id=197

There is also the plethora of "obsolete" models from other Chinese manufacturers, which continue to curn of 1980s and early 90s VW and Mitsubishi clones, many of which costs in the sub $4,000 price bracket. 

Adding to this mix are the various former Eastern bloc offerings, being everything from obsolete new Ladas (which mechanically have remained the same since the early 90s):
 
http://www.retrothing.com/2007/02/a_classic_lada_.html

and several other eastern European manufacturers, which all sell at around the same price-point.  Certainly the Romanian built Dacia "Logan", built on dated Renault technology, starts at under $4,000 (the EU compliant model sells for Euro8,000 in France) has received very positive reviews:

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2007/04/would_you_buy_a_new_car_for_30.html

If any of these products are exported outside of their home market (many of the Chinese and Russian offerings are already being exported to the middle-east and Africa at present), the question is which would be more viable in the market place; a innovative new design from Tata, which is designed to be economical from the onset, or obsolete "conventional" models, which are dated, but tried and true in terms of mechanical reliablity. 

Having traveled in various parts of the developing world, where urban speeds RARELY exceed 30km/h, and luxury is any mode of transportion which is motorized and not a bus, western notions of crashworthiness and style rarely come into play in a consumer's decision making.   It would be interesting to see which one of these options would be more appealing. 

Speaking for myself, I would certainly be more inclined to consider a Dacia "Logan" or a "new" Lada over a Tata, particularly if there is even the remote possibility that I would have to venture at highway speeds in rural areas.

In this regard, I would be interested in knowing how effective the Tata will be able to compete in other markets against the aforementioned contentors.

Offline Dante

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2008, 03:58:55 pm »
Certainly the Romanian built Dacia "Logan", built on dated Renault technology, starts at under $4,000 (the EU compliant model sells for Euro8,000 in France) has received very positive reviews:

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2007/04/would_you_buy_a_new_car_for_30.html


Dacia Logan was never $4,000. Today, in Romania, it starts at 6,400 Euro with tax (about 5,400 Euro without); that's about $9,600 CAD. You get a very basic model for that price: 1.4L 75hp, no power options, no A/C, no radio, no ABS, driver airbag only, no power steering, etc).

Offline infinitime

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2008, 04:34:52 pm »


[/quote]

Dacia Logan was never $4,000. Today, in Romania, it starts at 6,400 Euro with tax (about 5,400 Euro without); that's about $9,600 CAD. You get a very basic model for that price: 1.4L 75hp, no power options, no A/C, no radio, no ABS, driver airbag only, no power steering, etc).
[/quote]

Are you sure?  I know that may be the price for an EU-compliant model, but there are cheaper variants sold in other parts of eastern Europe.  Here's a link to a near-new (7800km) 2007 model, being sold by a Ukrainian dealer, asking price is $4,000US.  I was told by a friend that a brand spanking new one can be modestly equipped, for about $4,500.

Offline Dante

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #53 on: January 18, 2008, 05:03:05 pm »
I just checked the Romanian site, the "country of origin", and the Logan starts at 6,400 Euro (taxes in). In Russia, Ukraine, etc, the prices may be different. If I don't mistaken, Renault manufactures the Logan in Russia too and therefore the local prices may be different. Same goes for India as I believe they build this car over there too.
In Romania, the most expensive model (1.6L 105 hp gas engine), which is probably sold in other Western EU countries, costs about $10,400 Euro (taxes in).

When Renault bought Dacia in 1999, they stated that they would build a $5000-$6,000 "modern" car (they changed the target price over time). This never happened as the price turned out to be in Euro and closer to the 6,000 mark in 2004 when the car came out. Plus, what Renault sold for that price was a very, very basic car, far from what could be considered a "modern" car (see my previous post for what you get today for 5,400 Euro before tax).

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #54 on: January 18, 2008, 07:37:00 pm »
I'd drive one for bombing around....anybody else??  :)

 At a top speed of 40mph i'm not sure you will be bombing for long..

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Offline safristi

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #56 on: August 25, 2008, 04:02:26 pm »
..trouble @ tha MIll Gov.....those BRAS were way too tight............ :nono: :light: :banghead: :bow:

Offline ovr50

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2008, 03:14:29 pm »
More trouble for Tata trying to build world's cheapest car....maybe they didn't pay for the land the factory sits on India?.....?

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/BUSINESS/09/02/tata.motors.small.car.ap/index.html
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Cortina

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2008, 04:36:55 pm »
This has all got rather silly.  I say never lease land is the moral of the story.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 08:33:20 pm by Cortina »

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Re: Tata Motors unveils cheapest car 'Nano'
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2008, 04:59:23 pm »
This has all got rather silly. I get never lease land is the moral of the story.
I believe most commercial place are land lease