Topic: THE DAY HAS COME! Transport Canada considering less stringent bumper rules!

[Wolfe]

So…easing fontal impact damage criteria is a good thing?

It is if the costs are outweighing the benefits!

Show me the trade-off study then.

Study?  Here's my six-letter study.

EVO
GTO

I thought the GTO was inadmissable due to a seatbelt issue of some sort.

I hope I'm wrong on that since Transport Canada does not allow seatbelt systems to be modified in order to meet Canadian standards for importation.

[pickles]

Here is the best solution - PAY ATTENTION!

If we have inclement weather - DRIVE WITH COMMON SENSE AND FOR THE CONDITIONS

[Wolfe]

Time to go back to the bumpers that are made of something that will take a hit for a change instead of the cheap paper thin useless crap they use now. The only thing they are any good for is to look good. Nothing else at all as you hit something at creeping speed and its still over $2000. to start with. Even the bumper on my 1972 GMC is at least 25 times stronger then the junk of to-day by all of the builders. They save weight on the car but nothing else is worth the damage they cause to the owners pocket or the Insurance Comanies pockets which in turn you pay for anyways. 

To be fair Barrie the bumper on your truck was designed to work like a piece of armor/battering ram rather than as a part of a crumple zone.

Remember this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ygYUYia9I

Are you still so sure that todays bumpers are junk?

[pickles]

Time to go back to the bumpers that are made of something that will take a hit for a change instead of the cheap paper thin useless crap they use now. The only thing they are any good for is to look good. Nothing else at all as you hit something at creeping speed and its still over $2000. to start with. Even the bumper on my 1972 GMC is at least 25 times stronger then the junk of to-day by all of the builders. They save weight on the car but nothing else is worth the damage they cause to the owners pocket or the Insurance Comanies pockets which in turn you pay for anyways. 

Those for the days where the individual took the impact and the car came out with minor dings and scratches.  My 2nd car was a 1964 Ford Galaxy XL 500 back in high school (18 years ago) and had a civic cross the center line on Robie Street, Halifax.  Wrote that civic off but the old Galaxy came out with minor bumper scratches and a broken park light (my buddy was not too pleased hitting that solid metal dash).  Ah I miss my lead sled and those hard as heck sold metal dashes and steering wheels.  No adays the car takes the impact and the driver usualy comes out okay.

[turbodiesel]

So…easing fontal impact damage criteria is a good thing?

It is if the costs are outweighing the benefits!

Show me the trade-off study then.

Study?  Here's my six-letter study.

EVO
GTO

I thought the GTO was inadmissable due to a seatbelt issue of some sort.

I hope I'm wrong on that since Transport Canada does not allow seatbelt systems to be modified in order to meet Canadian standards for importation.

not just that... the gas tank position is "wrong" 

[safristi]

how hard would it be to design an attractively integrated bumper that had a 10KPH or greater "LIFE" without trashing either a pedestrian,other vehicle and the vehicle it is attached to......we have those electrically gelled shock adsorbers..something along those lines incorporated into the bumper or behind it perhaps.....c'mom Engineers it isn't ROCKET SCIENCE here.....

[jamie1]

The 8km bumper was uselessIMHO.  A much more sensible approach would be to make ALL bumpers on vehicles sold to the public and vehicles that are likely ENCOUNTERED by the public ( buses, 18 wheelers etc)  ALL the same height with a massive fine for anyone who lowers or jacks up their vehicle outside a narrow range. I realize that some people with jacked up trucks object and so do some rice boys.... too bad.

The dealership I work at puts lift kits on trucks all the time. I have always objected to this practice. Car markers spend millions of dollars on suspension design and we go a screw it up by lifting the truck. Inducing a death wobble and other concerns. Management's position is if we don't do it,the customer will just go down the street to the other dealer or off road shop and buy there. I think there is some kind of bumper height law in Alberta,but it is not enforced.

[Schmengie]

Time to go back to the bumpers that are made of something that will take a hit for a change instead of the cheap paper thin useless crap they use now. The only thing they are any good for is to look good. Nothing else at all as you hit something at creeping speed and its still over $2000. to start with. Even the bumper on my 1972 GMC is at least 25 times stronger then the junk of to-day by all of the builders. They save weight on the car but nothing else is worth the damage they cause to the owners pocket or the Insurance Comanies pockets which in turn you pay for anyways. 

I'll dive in and agree with Barrie. Hell, today's so-called 'bumpers' already crumple like paper at the first hint of an impact, you can even rip the plastic covers off with your bare hands if you try hard enough. Real bumpers haven't been made for 30 years anyway, so we might as well stop fooling ourselves and call these things what they are - cosmetic plastic end-caps.

[pickles]

Speaking of bumpers again.  I miss the days of the old bumper jacks.  Quick, simple and painless to use.  Bet not too many current cars can be lifted by the bumper without causing extensive damage.  Oh wait current cars don't have bumpers just a chunk of styrofoam and some cosmetic plastic coverings.

Here we go http://www.bumperpad.com/

[tpl]

how hard would it be to design an attractively integrated bumper that had a 10KPH or greater "LIFE" without trashing either a pedestrian,other vehicle and the vehicle it is attached to......we have those electrically gelled shock adsorbers..something along those lines incorporated into the bumper or behind it perhaps.....c'mom Engineers it isn't ROCKET SCIENCE here.....

My 1981 Saab had big bumpers about 8" wide front to rear covered in thick black rubber. Inside, mounted on a steel beam, which was itself mounted on simple bent metal  shock absorbers were carefully designed plastic cells.  A slow speed bump and these would compress and take the shock... the bumper would then look all misshapen. After a few hours in summer or a couple of days if it was cold the cells would reset their shape and one had a bumper again.   If the crash was more severe then the cells could be replaced individually Even more severe and the shock absorber things  could be replaced and so on.  It wasn't pretty and it didn't come in body colour but it sure as hell worked as a bumper should.

[The Mighty Duck]

I'll dive in and agree with Barrie. Hell, today's so-called 'bumpers' already crumple like paper at the first hint of an impact, you can even rip the plastic covers off with your bare hands if you try hard enough. Real bumpers haven't been made for 30 years anyway, so we might as well stop fooling ourselves and call these things what they are - cosmetic plastic end-caps.

Yeah.  That's the point.  A big hunk of metal would channel the kinetic energy of a crash through the occupants instead of the car.  Now, you may value your car more than your life, but I'll take those "paper" bumpers any day...

[Schmengie]

I'll dive in and agree with Barrie. Hell, today's so-called 'bumpers' already crumple like paper at the first hint of an impact, you can even rip the plastic covers off with your bare hands if you try hard enough. Real bumpers haven't been made for 30 years anyway, so we might as well stop fooling ourselves and call these things what they are - cosmetic plastic end-caps.

Yeah.  That's the point.  A big hunk of metal would channel the kinetic energy of a crash through the occupants instead of the car.  Now, you may value your car more than your life, but I'll take those "paper" bumpers any day...

I disagree. I think bumpers can be engineered to take minor impacts with little or no damage and still allow the body's crumple zones to do what they were designed to. The bumpers do little to absorb energy from large impacts in any event.

[Iso Octane]

I disagree. I think bumpers can be engineered to take minor impacts with little or no damage and still allow the body's crumple zones to do what they were designed to. The bumpers do little to absorb energy from large impacts in any event.

Can they? 

People need to understand that a ding costs just as much as a crack.  The "repair" is to replace the whole damn thing! 

This isn't France.

[tpl]

Yes they can   see my post #29. Those SAAB bumpers REALLY worked as advertised

[Triple Bob]

Woohoo!

[safristi]

DINGCosts as much as CRACK...hey back off here......

[Snowman]

   Why should TC lower standards for the 2 or 3 models that manufactures who did not put sufficient engineering effort to comply?

[barrie1]

To me the thick bumper on my truck will take a 8-10MPH hit without very much damage at all. Might have a few small dents but still be useable for the remeainder of the trucks life. I won't have several thousand dollars worth of repairs to do at all. The bumper cost to replace with a new one is around $235.00 which is what this one cost me about 5 years ago now when I redid the truck up with paint and body work. I have seatbelts so they do help keep me in the safest position at all times. 

[turbodiesel]

  Why should TC lower standards for the 2 or 3 models that manufactures who did not put sufficient engineering effort to comply?

consistency, my mate. consistency. Why bother spend extra $ to develop bumpers just for North American market?

Besides, as NAFTA allows folks to get cars from Mexico in next 10 years, it disallowed Canadian government to put restrictive measures on these vehicles, which may not be CMVSS-certified. So for Canada, it's fix-it-or-die situation as the country must honor whatever it agrees in NAFTA.

[dr_spock]

I think over the years shock absorbers/dampers got replaced by energy foam in bumper assemblies.   It's cheaper than dampers.   Probably good for one good hit and then has to be replaced.   Just don't back into a pole.  The bump and grind can be too much for the weak heart and wallet.