Topic: 427lb-ft.... diesel 3-series coming.

[rrocket]

Personally, as a used car buy, I like the 350Z.  But for different reasons than most.  I like to mod my cars, and the 350Z is proving to be one of those cars that has a large aftermarket support.  It helps even more that the car takes to mods in a really great way.  The engine itself really wakes up with bolt-ons, and with a turbo kit at even mild boost levels 400RWHP is a piece of cake.  The engine is pretty stout too.  Plenty of clean body kits, thousands of wheels, dozens of performance kits and this car is a used buy winner for those that like to play with their cars..

[Ex-airbalancer]

Personally, as a used car buy, I like the 350Z.  But for different reasons than most.  I like to mod my cars, and the 350Z is proving to be one of those cars that has a large aftermarket support.  It helps even more that the car takes to mods in a really great way.  The engine itself really wakes up with bolt-ons, and with a turbo kit at even mild boost levels 400RWHP is a piece of cake.  The engine is pretty stout too.  Plenty of clean body kits, thousands of wheels, dozens of performance kits and this car is a used buy winner for those that like to play with their cars..

350Z have more mods then a BMW

[Arctic_White]

I think my brain just exploded.

But it will cost a fortune.

Don't worry, they might have a 1-Series version (with half the usable space, 99.5% of the weight, and 99.2% of the price).

Hahahah!!! 

[Triple Bob]

Personally, as a used car buy, I like the 350Z.  But for different reasons than most.  I like to mod my cars, and the 350Z is proving to be one of those cars that has a large aftermarket support.  It helps even more that the car takes to mods in a really great way.  The engine itself really wakes up with bolt-ons, and with a turbo kit at even mild boost levels 400RWHP is a piece of cake.  The engine is pretty stout too.  Plenty of clean body kits, thousands of wheels, dozens of performance kits and this car is a used buy winner for those that like to play with their cars..

I've seen a couple of these in the UK:

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/43732/nissan_350z_supercharged.html

Great car, but not that cheap, maybe the mods are cheaper in North America..?

[The Mighty Duck]

Personally, as a used car buy, I like the 350Z.  But for different reasons than most.  I like to mod my cars, and the 350Z is proving to be one of those cars that has a large aftermarket support.  It helps even more that the car takes to mods in a really great way.  The engine itself really wakes up with bolt-ons, and with a turbo kit at even mild boost levels 400RWHP is a piece of cake.  The engine is pretty stout too.  Plenty of clean body kits, thousands of wheels, dozens of performance kits and this car is a used buy winner for those that like to play with their cars..

The G uses the same engines, so any performance mods will work on either car.  I think they use the same suspension components, too, though I might be wrong...  I love the Z, but for the money I could never justify it over the G.  The Infiniti is just a much nicer and more practical car.  Nissan's Canadian pricing makes very little sense to me...

In the States the Z would only be a few thousand more than a Civic Si - that's extremely attractive pricing.  A lightly used Z or a new Si?  Hmm...  I know when Rob was looking for his car he crossed shopped those two, but to find a used Z at that price level in Canada means going back further...

[syin]

Back to BMW:

So how would maintaining a BMW compared to Nissan?  I know BMW parts/services are quite expensive as a lux. brand.  I've also heard about poor services from Nissan...

[Arctic_White]

Back to BMW:

So how would maintaining a BMW compared to Nissan?  I know BMW parts/services are quite expensive as a lux. brand.  I've also heard about poor services from Nissan...

BMW has four years/80,000 kms free maintenance.  After that, I bet it'll be quite expensive.  Though you only change oil once a year (every 20,000 kms) for BMW, as opposed to three times a year for an Infiniti.

[rrocket]

^^^^Wonder how many of us car enthusiasts here would only change the oil in our brand new BMW every 20,000kms?

[Ex-airbalancer]

"After that, I bet it'll be quite expensive. "

not really

^^^^Wonder how many of us car enthusiasts here would only change the oil in our brand new BMW every 20,000kms?

How many here change their own oil?
Probably not many

[safristi]

MY OIL is good till 95 i squeeze a bit out tri_weakly ...butt ma Kar ish good fer 10K wif Synthia

[Ex-airbalancer]

it only has 425 lb-ft 
http://www.wheels.ca/luxury/article/415281

[Serniter]

Impressive indeed.  Still, as an enthusiast, I think it might take some getting used to not getting to rev out the engine in spirited driving.  All that torque sure would make rocketing out of corners fun though.

427 TQ is just for starters.  Once that car gets chipped, it will be 500TQ plus EASILY.

I think the starter in that BMW makes more TQ than the Miata's engine.... 

Hey!  It's not a Honda!  Sheesh! 

500 ft lbs, eh?  What's the new Duramax diesel put out?  Oh yeah... big numbers don't necessarily mean it's sporting in its feel.... just that it can pull a large hay wagon around the field. 

Talking of the Duramax, here's another possible diesel sports car!

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/15/cadillac-mulling-v8-diesel-for-cts/

[MKII]

I think automobile companies known for high-performance luxury cars are very scared now. BMW, for example, cannot live with 335 and V8 M3 alone.  While trying to amortize the heavy R&D spent on cleaning up diesel engine emissions, now they need more money to develop smaller yet “profitable” automobiles.

Don't worry for BMW, they are a clever organization and are preparing well for the new regulations.

German automakers like BMW, Mercedes, and Porsche have been at the forefront of battling the proposed EU carbon dioxide emissions limits. Those manufacturers have traditionally had among the highest fuel consumption averages because of all the high performance cars they build. In spite of that, BMW actually had the greatest reduction in CO2 emissions from its fleet in 2007. BMW's fleet average fuel consumption dropped by 7.3 percent from 2006 to 2007 and its CO2 emissions went from 184 g/km to 170 g/km. The average improvement for all the big manufacturers was only 1.7 percent. That's still well above the 158 g/km average for all large manufacturers and the 130 g/km target for 2012. Nonetheless it shows the progress that's possible even without sacrificing too much performance capability.

BMW Group further extends its leading position in the reduction of fuel consumption and exhaust emission levels - 23 models with a CO2 level of maximum 140 grams/kilometre - 23 models fulfil the exhaust emissions norm EU5 as of autumn 2008, new BMW 330d with BMW BluePerformance Technology even at EU6 level.

Thanks to BMW EfficientDynamics, the BMW Group continues to extend its leadership position in the model year 2009 in terms of the reduction of fuel consumption and exhaust emission levels.

As of August 2008 the number of vehicles fitted with the current BMW EfficientDynamics measures will exceed the mark of one million units sold. With the market launch of the new BMW 7 Series, efficiency-enhancing Technologies will be introduced to the segment of luxury sedans as of autumn 2008.

In the model year 2009 the number of BMW models whose CO2 level is at a maximum of 140 grams per kilometre will increase to 23. At the same time, the number of BMW models which already meet the EU5 exhaust emissions norm will increase to 23.

What is more, the new BMW 330d with optional BMW BluePerformance Technology will be the first vehicle in the model year 2009 to fulfil the EU6 exhaust emissions norm, which does not come into force until 2014.

[dave]

Whoa!  That's it!?

I'll admit to never having bothered to check the price of BMW's top trim models because "they're probably way overpriced anyway", but, that's really quite affordable (never thought I'd ever say this).  Not that I can afford one though.

I mean... a S2000 is that price.  A G37 is that price.  Hell, a sport G35 is getting up there.  Even an Acura TL-S is $48k.  Geeze, the Japanese are getting expensive.  If I were shopping in the $45-50,000 range it'd take some real hard convincing to sway me from the BMW.

Keep in mind that BMWs compare with other luxury brands in base price, but BMWs tend to be very stripped compared to their competitors.  A G37 has leather seating power seats, heated seating, a great sound system, metallic paint, etc standard.  These sorts of things are frequently (pricey) options on BMWs.  When you're comparing identically-equipped Infinitis and BMWs, suddenly the BMWs don't seem so cheap after all.

BMW 335i coupe base: $50,600
BMW 135i base: $41,700
G37 coupe base: $47,350

The 335i comes standard with power seats, heated seats, and real dakota leather.  Metallic paint is optional...but so is the pearl paint on the G37.  What I like about BMW is that you can buy most of the options individually.  Infiniti packages them all into $3k + options.  Really, they are fairly closely priced especially when you look at the value of the car after 4+ years.

Re: the 1 series comments, you're right -- it's smaller and weighs only 300lbs less than the 335i.  But $10k is a big chunk of change.  The 1 is not the car for you if you're looking for something practical (get a similarily priced G35 sedan or 328i).  It's more of a competitor to the 370Z/G37 and other sporty coupes.  People whine about it being too expensive (in this thread and the 135i cabrio review thread for example)...but look at the numbers it puts out!  For example:

135i v. Z4M v. Porsche Cayman S:  http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/Sept_06_data_panel.pdf http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/0508_RT_BMW.pdf

The 135i is 11k less then the Z4M and 30k less then the Cayman S as tested (yowsa!)

-135i is faster then both 0-60. 4.8 vs 4.9.
-Ties the Cayman S in the quarter mile and beats the Z4M
-Better stopping then both Cayman S and Z4M from 60-0
-1 foot behind Cayman in 80-0, but beats Z4M by by 11 feet
-Ties the Cayman S and Z4M in the slalom.

Only one seats 4....ok maybe 3.5 

Anyways, sorry for going off topic but the endless cries of the 3 series being a stripper and the 1 series being over priced is making my head explode.  Back on topic - The 335d is super 

[barrie1]

As long as the prices are affordable for most buyers the Diesels will start to sell much better in the next few years I suspect. The emmisions are definitely improving a lot on them which will certainly help sales of them no matter who builds them. 

[rrocket]

Re: the 1 series comments, you're right -- it's smaller and weighs only 300lbs less than the 335i.  But $10k is a big chunk of change. 

Could you get a 135 at the "base" price?  Our local stealer did not order ANY for that price.  And 1 local guy here had to go out of town to find one even remotely de-contented to keep the price down.....

[evil_twin]

Re: the 1 series comments, you're right -- it's smaller and weighs only 300lbs less than the 335i.  But $10k is a big chunk of change. 

Could you get a 135 at the "base" price?  Our local stealer did not order ANY for that price.  And 1 local guy here had to go out of town to find one even remotely de-contented to keep the price down.....

Probably not off the lot you're right.  But Dave ordered his to the specs he wanted (mostly base, just adding the sport package) and didn't pay any markups or anything. 

Of course, he then had to wait for it.  I don't think I'd ever buy a car right off the dealer lot unless they were giving me a tremendous deal.


On topic:  I drove a 535d wagon last year in Europe and it was AMAZING.  Unbelievable amounts of torque.  That would be one sweet ride over here in NA.  I'd probably still prefer the 535xi, but very nice nonetheless.

[G35X]

“ …In the model year 2009 the number of BMW models whose CO2 level is at a maximum of 140 grams per kilometre will increase to 23 … ” – MKII

Yes, but the EU requirement is 120 grams/km after 2012 and come 2015 there will be penalty levy of 95 euros for each 1 gram/km above this number.  120 grams/km is something like 19km/litre or 5.3 liter/100km. Already this is very though to meet.  To avoid any penalty at all automakers will have to keep their corporate average CO2 emission less than 120 grams/km.  This is the reason why there were so many micro cars and electric cars shown at the recent Paris auto show. BMW will have to sell many electric Minis so that they can sell 1- and 3-series models as well as other high-performance models.

“ …NA seems to obsessed with wimpy hybrids or electric cars that use coal burning energy… “ – Kevlar

As far as the provinces of Quebec and British Columbia are concerned, electric cars reduce CO2 emission greatly since about 95% of their electricity is hydro generated. Even for provinces that depend heavily on coal-fired plants, if charging is done during off-peak hours, there will be a net reduction of CO2 emission, because coal-fired plants cannot be shut down during off-peak hours and electric cars charge this otherwise wasted energy.  As the electric cars thus charged are used for commuting, we have less number of gas/diesel burning commuters on the streets.

Wimpy?  Have you ever heard of Toyota’s hybrid Crown model? Its acceleration and high-speed manner is surreal according to a friend of mine who just bought one.  He said his first fill-up-to-fill-up mileage was 12.5KM/litre (8 litre/100KM), not bad for a car with 3.5 litre 296HP V6 and 196HP electric motor. Sooner or later we will see a hybrid version of the BMW 3-series.  They have to.  Clean diesel technology is very expensive and there is no easy way to reduce its cost (5000 to 10000 dollars per vehicle to meet the EuroVI) while the cost to incorporate electric motor and batteries in automobiles is coming down quickly.

[G35X]

6.6 litres of diesel is equivalent to 7.4 litres of gas as far as CO2 emission is concerned.   Yes, the new TDI is more efficient, but not by the ratio of fuel consumption per km simply because diesel fuel is packed with about 12 percent more hydrocarbons per volume.

[G35X]

Hydrocarbon turns into CO2 (and CO) and H2O when burned (plus H, H2 and C when too rich).  Since density of diesel is about 12% more than that of gas, a litre of diesel produces 12% more CO2 than a litre of gas when burned.
So, if we compare a 10 litres/100km gas automobile and a 7 litres/100km diesel automobile, we cannot say the diesel emits 30% less CO2.  It is more like 22% less.  Still it is good, which is due to higher thermal and mechanical efficiency of the diesel engine.

As for the cost difference let’s see the price difference between 335i and 335d…  Do we know the price of 335d?  With its sturdier construction, more complex fuel injection system, more expensive cat converters and DPF in addition to the urea container and spray system plus the amortization of years of R&D to clean it, definitely the diesel engine costs much more than the gas counterpart.  If BMW keeps the price differential around 3000 dollars, which should be the maximum marketing wise, BMW is making less money by selling the diesel model.