Topic: CD Article: 2008 Dodge Avenger R/T

[The Mighty Duck]

[sailor723]

I'd have to say all the styling issues are a moot point for me. Until Chrysler does something to improve it's dismal quality and reliability reputation their products aren't even on my radar screen.

[Schmengie]

I'd have to say all the styling issues are a moot point for me. Until Chrysler does something to improve it's dismal quality and reliability reputation their products aren't even on my radar screen.

Maybe not, but you still have to look at them. With luck, maybe enough folks not buying them will send Chrysler a clear message to put away the ugly-stick they've been beating their vehicles with lately and concentrate more on the engineering and innovation they used to be known for. One can only hope.

[The Mighty Duck]

Maybe not, but you still have to look at them. With luck, maybe enough folks not buying them will send Chrysler a clear message to put away the ugly-stick they've been beating their vehicles with lately and concentrate more on the engineering and innovation they used to be known for. One can only hope.

Right.  Except that a lot of people like the look of it, and will buy it.  If you don't like it, don't buy one.  Simple equation.

[Greg B.]

Except that a lot of people like the look of it, and will buy it.  If you don't like it, don't buy one.  Simple equation.

The real equation is: are there enough design-challenged buyers out there willing to buy this car (and it equally ugly Chrysler-badged cousin) to make it profitable enough for Chrysler to keep it afloat?

[Mitlov]

The real equation is: are there enough design-challenged buyers out there willing to buy this car (and it equally ugly Chrysler-badged cousin) to make it profitable enough for Chrysler to keep it afloat?

The real question is: why do people keep on forgetting that beauty is in the eye of the beholder?  I think this car is far better looking than the current Accord or Camry.

[Leviathan]

I think this car is far better looking than the current Accord or Camry.

Yep. I don't know about far though 

[The Mighty Duck]

The real equation is: are there enough design-challenged buyers out there willing to buy this car (and it equally ugly Chrysler-badged cousin) to make it profitable enough for Chrysler to keep it afloat?

Right.  I forget that anyone who doesn't conform to your ideals of "beauty" is "challenged".  How silly of me.  I'm going to go covet the airbrushed woman on the cover of Maxim, now.   

The Charger, 300, and Magnum have sold well enough, so there must be plenty of "challenged" people out there who like Chrysler's designs.

[Greg B.]

The Charger, 300, and Magnum have sold well enough, so there must be plenty of "challenged" people out there who like Chrysler's designs.

GM sold a bunch of Azteks. Back in the dark ages Datsun sold a ton of B-210s and F-10s, a.k.a. the atomic cockroach as named by Car & Driver. Does that make them good designs in your lexicon?

Bad design is bad design, and sales is not a measure of it.

[The Mighty Duck]

Um...  right.  So what you're saying is that everyone alive, even the people who drive these cars, absolutely hate the way they look, and bought them anyway.  Believe it or not, a) some people do like the looks of these cars, and b) the people that bought them are probably the same people that like the way they look.

There is no such thing as a universally "bad" visual design.  There is only a personally bad design, that is, one you do not like.  But stop whining about how ugly the car is - we know you don't like it, it does not mean everyone else agrees with you.  Many people really do like the way these cars look, and they are not "challenged" because of it.

[Mitlov]

Um...  right.  So what you're saying is that everyone alive, even the people who drive these cars, absolutely hate the way they look, and bought them anyway.  Believe it or not, a) some people do like the looks of these cars, and b) the people that bought them are probably the same people that like the way they look.

There is no such thing as a universally "bad" visual design.  There is only a personally bad design, that is, one you do not like.  But stop whining about how ugly the car is - we know you don't like it, it does not mean everyone else agrees with you.  Many people really do like the way these cars look, and they are not "challenged" because of it.

  The saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" was coined for a reason.

[Greg B.]

Um...  right.  So what you're saying is that everyone alive, even the people who drive these cars, absolutely hate the way they look, and bought them anyway. 

Don't be ridiculous. What I AM saying is that there are people who will buy an ugly car regardless of how it looks. Maybe they don't care about the looks. Maybe THEY don't think it's ugly. Who knows?

But regardless of how many sell, it's still ugly.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I could say you're blind. That doesn't make it so. You may just need glasses.

[The Mighty Duck]

But regardless of how many sell, it's still ugly.

No.  It means you think it's ugly.  Which is fine, you're allowed to think it's ugly.  But stop trying to convince everyone and their dog that it's ugly.  We know what you think, we disagree, get over it.

[mdxtasy]

The saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" was coined for a reason.

No kidding....

[Iso Octane]

No question, the interior is a real budgie bird (cheep cheep cheep) but you guys LIKE the exterior? If the Charger is like a lounge lizard type with slicked back hair and gold chains on an open-neck shirt, this thing looks like his kid brother trying to pull off the same effect -- i.e. ridiculous

Oooh, good analogy.  I totally agree. 

The macho aggressive theme looks tacky on the Avenger.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

No question, the interior is a real budgie bird (cheep cheep cheep) but you guys LIKE the exterior? If the Charger is like a lounge lizard type with slicked back hair and gold chains on an open-neck shirt, this thing looks like his kid brother trying to pull off the same effect -- i.e. ridiculous

Oooh, good analogy.  I totally agree. 

The macho aggressive theme looks tacky on the Avenger.

...then the Miata is a 16 year old, cellphone jawing bimbo called "Like, Brittney or something?"
or, or
...then the G35 is a forty something, suit wearing member of the Yakuza?

It bares repeating that the combined sales of the 300, Charger and Magnum were higher than the combined sales of the Camry/Avalon. A good many North Americans prefer vehicles that don't look like rolling suppositories. Some don't like it, that's fine. Doesn't mean those who do are wrong.

[Greg B.]

But regardless of how many sell, it's still ugly.

No.  It means you think it's ugly.  Which is fine, you're allowed to think it's ugly.  But stop trying to convince everyone and their dog that it's ugly.  We know what you think, we disagree, get over it.

Wrong again. You think it's not ugly. Fine. I'm not trying to convince anyone. But there are generally accepted standards for what is a good design and what is not, and this one fails the test. Get over it yourself.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

But there are generally accepted standards for what is a good design and what is not, and this one fails the test.

Bollocks. Critics of everything from art and architecture to industrial design are almost never in agreement. It doesn't take much Google skill to come up with negative reviews of icons like Frank Lloyd Wright's Falling Waters, Frank Gehry's Guggenheim  Museum in Bilbao, or even the Acropolis of Athens. Opinions are reality only for the opinion maker, not for those to whom he expressed it.

[2JDM]

UPDATE: Chrysler To Recall 102,042 Sebrings, Avengers

 DETROIT -(Dow Jones)- Chrysler LLC is recalling 102,042 Dodge Avengers and Chrysler Sebring cars to examine cooling fan motor connectors that could cause fires.

The recall affects Sebring and Avengers from the 2007 and 2008 model years that have 2.4-liter engines. Both are relatively new products, as the Sebring was significantly refreshed for the 2007 model year and the Avenger launched as a new product for the 2008 model year.

Chrysler has sold 127,425 Sebrings and Avengers in 2007 though the end of September, according to its most recent sales report.

The company said there have been a few incidents in which contaminated cooling fan connectors overheated, although no accidents or injuries have been reported.

Chrysler will inspect the connectors, and then either install new wiring or replace them, the company said.

The recall follows one announced last month were the auto maker said it would recall an estimated 296,550 vehicles to reprogram the electronic-control unit to eliminate the potential for a delay in braking when coasting up a hill. Products involved in that recall include the 2006-2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee and Commander SUVs, 2007 Jeep Wrangler SUVs and 2007 Dodge Nitro SUVs.

Chrysler also announced last month it would recall about 72,333 Dodge Avenger sedans and Chrysler Sebring convertibles from the 2008 model year to ensure proper function of door latches and locks.

In July, Chrysler said it would recall 80,894 Jeep Wrangler and Dodge Nitro vehicles from the 2007 model year to reprogram a power module after complaints surfaced of power loss to the engine.

Despite the recent notices, Chrysler spokesman Max Gates said he hasn't seen numbers to indicate that the auto maker's recall rate is unusually high this year.

Still, Chrysler is concerned about every recall, no matter the scope, Gates said.

"We're always concerned when we have an issue like this when it concerns safety," he said.

Chrysler is now majority owned by private equity fund Cerberus Capital Management LP. Cerberus moved quickly to bring in top executives to help turn the auto maker around.

Robert Nardelli, the former chief executive of Home Depot Inc. (HD), is the auto maker's top executive.

The auto maker also snagged Toyota Motor Corp.'s (TM) top North American executive, Jim Press, to become president and vice chairman, running sales and product strategy.

- By Terry Kosdrosky, Dow Jones Newswires; (248) 204-5532; terry.kosdrosky@ dowjones.com

  (END) Dow Jones Newswires
  10-05-07 1602ET
  Copyright (c) 2007 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200710051602DOWJONESDJONLINE000696_FORTUNE5.htm