Topic: CD Article: Honda Accord, 2003-2007

[Julie]

This is no surprise to me at all, I've known this all along and mentioned it a few times while defending the Altima  

So the Altima has a better reliability rating than the Accord, or the Accord is no better than the Altima?

If you accept one review, I think it makes sense then to keep an open mind with respect to other reviews.

Consumer Reports Most & Least Reliable Models:

http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.aspx?contentid=4023544

[Wolverine]

About the noise of the ABS when taking the car after overnight parking, it happens on my 2000 Civic also.

[mmret]

About the noise of the ABS when taking the car after overnight parking, it happens on my 2000 Civic also.

Yeah, it explains that one bizzare morning with my car too.

[Dante]

I knew the Accords and Oddysey had transmissions problems, but not to this extent. I never reaserched these segments though. However, my neighbour friend is a service advisor with a Honda dealer and he told me that these models in particular are far from being an example of Honda reliability.
What I know from my recent research is that the highly praised, priced and overrated CRV is far from flawless too.
A look at the recent Toyota history will most likely uncover same type of stories.

'05 Accord 4 cyl and AT, 73 000 kms no problems at all. (I will admit to a few rattles in the door window though).  Very comfortable and v-e-r-y smooth.
99 CRV 225 000 km - no issues at all.  Rock solid!

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post. I was referring to the current models (CRV and RAV4). I know the G1 and G2 have been quite reliable.
I had an 89 Acura Legend - wonderful car and a '92 Accord (my in-law's but I used it for a while). Great quality in&out and they both were over 250K km.

It becomes more evident that Honda and Toyota reliability myth is based on the last decade reliability. The current models don't have the same quality.
In terms of ratings, the Consumer Reports and others could rate Honda and Toyota as high as they want, if the owners are saying differently, I tend to believe them.
Just for fun I still read the CRV G3 and the RAV4.3 forums and according with the owners they do have problems too. When the owners have significant problems with their brand new cars, highly rated and priced, that are supposed to be reliable (they were told so by every auto magazine), they have a big disappointment when it turns out that they are not quite bulletproof as they thought.
 

[Wolverine]

About the noise of the ABS when taking the car after overnight parking, it happens on my 2000 Civic also.

Yeah, it explains that one bizzare morning with my car too.

I remember a thread on Brazilian Honda Club where some members where concerned about the noise, thinking that it could be a defect or something.

Talking about the Accord, I didn't know about those records of reliability problems. Here in Brazil, Accords are like gods, just as Corollas, Civics and Camrys, a legacy of the good 'ol times. Is really hard to see something bad about these cars, mainly 'cause they are expensive and you don't see Accords often, let alone Camrys, which are offered only on the TOP line trim, so it goes for more than 150k R$.

[Wolfe]

I had no idea the Accord had such common problems.

The internet is corrosive to unearned reputations. It is much harder to hide or rest on one's laurels nowadays.

[Julie]

In terms of ratings, the Consumer Reports and others could rate Honda and Toyota as high as they want, if the owners are saying differently, I tend to believe them.
Just for fun I still read the CRV G3 and the RAV4.3 forums and according with the owners they do have problems too. When the owners have significant problems with their brand new cars, highly rated and priced, that are supposed to be reliable (they were told so by every auto magazine), they have a big disappointment when it turns out that they are not quite bulletproof as they thought.
 

You don't have to believe Consumer Reports, and I agree it's not a perfect way to evaluate reliability, but as good as owner forums* are for detecting potential problems,

- on any car forum, you see tons of complaints. If a car is very popular and frequently purchased, you get a lot of owners.... I would anticipate an even higher number of complaints then.
- if people have no issues, they would post less frequently that they have "no issues", I would assume.

I think you gotta take all these things together when coming to a conclusion.

I agree though, I can imagine how disappointing it would be for someone who bought an Accord principally for the "reliability" and it turned out to be a problem car for him/her.

And do I think Hondas and Toyotas over-rated in general? You bet.

*Consumer Reports is based on owners' feedback, but the owners are subscribers to Consumer Reports.

[Frontier1]

I knew the Accords and Oddysey had transmissions problems, but not to this extent. I never reaserched these segments though. However, my neighbour friend is a service advisor with a Honda dealer and he told me that these models in particular are far from being an example of Honda reliability.
What I know from my recent research is that the highly praised, priced and overrated CRV is far from flawless too.
A look at the recent Toyota history will most likely uncover same type of stories.

'05 Accord 4 cyl and AT, 73 000 kms no problems at all. (I will admit to a few rattles in the door window though).  Very comfortable and v-e-r-y smooth.
99 CRV 225 000 km - no issues at all.  Rock solid!

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post. I was referring to the current models (CRV and RAV4). I know the G1 and G2 have been quite reliable.
I had an 89 Acura Legend - wonderful car and a '92 Accord (my in-law's but I used it for a while). Great quality in&out and they both were over 250K km.

It becomes more evident that Honda and Toyota reliability myth is based on the last decade reliability. The current models don't have the same quality.
In terms of ratings, the Consumer Reports and others could rate Honda and Toyota as high as they want, if the owners are saying differently, I tend to believe them.
Just for fun I still read the CRV G3 and the RAV4.3 forums and according with the owners they do have problems too. When the owners have significant problems with their brand new cars, highly rated and priced, that are supposed to be reliable (they were told so by every auto magazine), they have a big disappointment when it turns out that they are not quite bulletproof as they thought.
 

It becomes more evident that Honda and Toyota reliability myth is based on the last decade reliability. The current models don't have the same quality.

I agree, and I would add that since many models are now made in north america more and more they are coming in line with the likes of GM, Ford and Chrysler.  I agree with Julie, some are overated and I add that some are underated.

[Julie]

I realize one of my posts above might be interpreted as questioning the Altima, and I wasn't, sorry if I sounded that way. I meant to ask a question about the Altima and then present the opinion that you get conflicting reviews.

I have a friend who is very interested in the new Altima. I told her, I really like that car, and she asked me about reliability. She also asked me to come test drive it with her - woohoo!

[Dante]

Since we are talking about CR, for the new models, they "predict" the reliability based on the previous models, which is not indicative IMO. Plus, they do not treat all the manufacturers equally.
Probably most of you already read about the recent CR controversy regarding Tundra vs. Silverado comparison: they rated Tundra’s reliability as “Very Good” based on the "previous" reliability Toyota records and they did not rate the Silverado being " to new to be rated ". LOL - anyone knows that Tundra is a brand new truck from the ground up, plus it had a whole list of problems since its launch.
In general, they rate the brand new models from Honda and Toyota based on the past models reliability, although the new vehicles are totally different. Why? They don't do the same for other manufactures.
When you research the reliability records for some NEW Hondas and Toyotas you discover that they are plagued with serious problems - did you know that the notorious 06 RAV4 "throttle hesitation" issue caused accidents? Did you know that Toyota just recently acknowledged and addressed this issue? 07 RAV4 were still delivered with the problem.
Did you know that brand new 07 CRVs were leaking oil and had structural defects (welding problems)? You could read all this here http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/.

[JSCC]

With enough "perception" and marketing influence, "reality" can be created.

JSCC

[Snowman]

My poor mother inlaw sold her Dodge Caravan after multiple transmission failures to buy ... yes an Oddysey that later had to have its transmission replaced.

A neighbour of mine had a similar experience and was most upset with his Ody mainly because he expected problems with his Dodge but not with the Honda.

[Sir Meow]

why does everyone think it is the end of the world as soon as the Honda or Toyota have hick-up. The fact still remains, Toyota/Honda still produce the best cars on the market that only the big 3 can begin to dream of having.

GM/Dodge/Ford have been, lets face nothing but nightmares, it only in the last 3 years they have been forced to deal with it.

I also think it has lot do with growth, the bigger you are the more like things will slip threw, I think thats been GM/Ford/Dodge on of many problems, maybe now that toyota/honda have grown so much, they are begin to have the same things happening to them.

The question is will the fix? I think yes they will fix it quickly, not take 15-20 years to relise there is a problem.

[Nik]

Well, this sucks.

I have been a Honda guy for years, and my Civics have been bullteproof. Have a few more $$ to spend now, so let's look at an '07 Accord 4 door....

Or maybe not.

From the Lemon-Aid guide to several Honda sites to Yahoo Autos, there seems to be a lot of questions about the Accord. A few things I have yet to get a straight answer on -

1. I have yet to be able to figure out whether the tranny that caused all the problems in '03 and '04 is the same one that is currently being used. Does the '07 4 cyl auto have this same tranny, the one with the oil jet retrofitted onto it to keep 2nd gear cool?

2. Are the brakes as bad as people say? Warped rotors or faulty calipers?

3. What about rattles and squeaks in the A-pillar and elsewhere?

4. AC condenser weakness - anyone had a rock through theirs, good for a $1000 non-warranty repair?

5. There must be 20 other complaints with multiple confirmations floating around the Accord forums, Hond forums, and car forums like Edmunds.com. What about it?

6. What about the paint? A lot of guys say it is thin and prone to scratches because of lack of clearcoat..

7. Are Honda dealers here in Ontario as bad as people say? Is it like pulling teeth to get them to give you the time of day after you walk out the door? Certainly the sales teams are a the worst slimeballs I have ever encountered. Hard to believe the BS they have shot at me in the past week of shopping around.

You know, I typically wouldn't believe niggling little problems that guys posted on the 'net about... except that in this case, there is so much material out there. Anyone have an '07 Accord that they have had since the beginning of the year? Any comments? How about an '06?

This whole thing really sucks because since finding out about these Accord problems I looked at and drove the Camry and the Altima. Neither even comes close in initial impression, and neither drives nearly as well.

Sheesh... am I going to have to bail out into a loaded Civic? Wait for the '08 Accord, after all this crap with the 7th Generation cars?

Ah well... at least I can take comfort in the fact that the Nissan and the Toyota seems even crappier to me.

[Jaeger]

The internet is corrosive to unearned reputations. It is much harder to hide or rest on one's laurels nowadays.

That was very well said indeed.  And very true.

Jaeger

[2JDM]

I am sure the 07' model has all of those issues worked out. The last model year is always the best, IMO. First model year being the worst.

[Greg B.]

Far be it from me to defend the reputation of Honda, as I think they are vastly overrated and overpriced these days, living on their past reputation. But to describe the things that were experienced with the Acoord as "reliability" issues is just wrong. Rattles are not a reliability issue. Neither is the self-test of the ABS. Transmission failure? Yes. That seems to be the only real reliability issue with these. Now, you can criticize the porky styling (deservedly so), and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the shaker 4-banger engine (try sitting in one at a stoplight with the A/C running), but by any standard, these are reliable cars at this stage of their life.

[Dante]

"Rattles are not a reliability issue."

This would be a build quality issue which is also overrated. The fit and finish is overrated too IMO.
It's not a matter of Hondas or Toyotas being bad vehicles by any means, but just overrated and over priced.

[Jaeger]

Rattles may not be reliability issues, but they are "suck the joy out of ownership" issues.

Jaeger

[Shemp]

Transmission , radio,BRAKES , wow, I'm taking the Accord off MY list!!!