Topic: 2008 Subaru Impreza prices

[jcon]

Driving a WRX with a slushbox is like wearing 9 condoms and raincoat.

Well, some people don't have the luxury of buying a manual.

Not true.   There are a few people out there (and here) who have physical limitations that prevent them from driving manual transmissions, but the great majority of people just don't have the desire/willpower to buy a manual.

I can't buy a manual because my wife does not enjoy driving a manual. Hence, some people don't have the luxury of buying a manual.

[dorin]

Driving a WRX with a slushbox is like wearing 9 condoms and raincoat.

Well, some people don't have the luxury of buying a manual.

Not true.   There are a few people out there (and here) who have physical limitations that prevent them from driving manual transmissions, but the great majority of people just don't have the desire/willpower to buy a manual.

I can't buy a manual because my wife does not enjoy driving a manual. Hence, some people don't have the luxury of buying a manual.

This is just one of those simple lack of desire/willpower situations.  Your wife doesn't have a desire to drive manual and you don't have the willpower to tell her to suck it up.

Saying you don't have the luxury to buy a manual is being overly precious about it.  You're not limited by money or physical limitations.

[2latecrew]

Driving a WRX with a slushbox is like wearing 9 condoms and raincoat.

Well, some people don't have the luxury of buying a manual.

Not true.   There are a few people out there (and here) who have physical limitations that prevent them from driving manual transmissions, but the great majority of people just don't have the desire/willpower to buy a manual.

I can't buy a manual because my wife does not enjoy driving a manual. Hence, some people don't have the luxury of buying a manual.

This is just one of those simple lack of desire/willpower situations.  Your wife doesn't have a desire to drive manual and you don't have the willpower to tell her to suck it up.

Saying you don't have the luxury to buy a manual is being overly precious about it.  You're not limited by money or physical limitations.

If you go against your wifes wishes you are likley to sudder from both limited money and some type of physical limitations. 

[jcon]

This is just one of those simple lack of desire/willpower situations.  Your wife doesn't have a desire to drive manual and you don't have the willpower to tell her to suck it up.

Saying you don't have the luxury to buy a manual is being overly precious about it.  You're not limited by money or physical limitations.

My wife doesn't want to drive manual. Why on Earth would I try to force her to do so?

If you're quibbling about my use of the word "luxury", then maybe you should just suck it up and stop be so precious about it!

[dorin]

This is just one of those simple lack of desire/willpower situations.  Your wife doesn't have a desire to drive manual and you don't have the willpower to tell her to suck it up.

Saying you don't have the luxury to buy a manual is being overly precious about it.  You're not limited by money or physical limitations.

My wife doesn't want to drive manual. Why on Earth would I try to force her to do so?

If you're quibbling about my use of the word "luxury", then maybe you should just suck it up and stop be so precious about it!

It's not the fact that you used the word luxury that bothers me per se, it's the overall NA mentality that driving manual is hard/inconvenient/complicated/other-random-whine that bothers me.  From that point of view your wife, my partner, heck even my parents are part of the problem and we're all guilty of collaborating whenever we give in to them.  For my part, I'm doing the little I can by having bought a manual transmission car.  I just told my partner that if she wants to drive it then I'd be happy to teach her how, but I will not consider ever changing it for an automatic.

[jcon]

it's the overall NA mentality that driving manual is hard/inconvenient/complicated/other-random-whine that bothers me.  From that point of view your wife, my partner, heck even my parents are part of the problem and we're all guilty of collaborating whenever we give in to them.  For my part, I'm doing the little I can by having bought a manual transmission car.  I just told my partner that if she wants to drive it then I'd be happy to teach her how, but I will not consider ever changing it for an automatic.

I see, so someone who drives an automatic is lazy and a whiner. I'll let my wife know. Since she is a Chartered Accountant and is writing her PhD thesis in Accounting, I'm certain she'll have a good laugh.

[UmroAyyar]

Here we go again.

I've recently started driving automatic tranmission vehicle (since 2004). There's nothing wrong or inferior about driving automatics. I don't have a medical issue (thanks Almighty  ) or restricted in any manner (my wife is willing to learn but it has to be our second car).

People in both camps need to stop whining about it. Some people don't like mayonnaise or spicy food.

[Dante]

It's not the fact that you used the word luxury that bothers me per se, it's the overall NA mentality that driving manual is hard/inconvenient/complicated/other-random-whine that bothers me.  From that point of view your wife, my partner, heck even my parents are part of the problem and we're all guilty of collaborating whenever we give in to them.  For my part, I'm doing the little I can by having bought a manual transmission car.  I just told my partner that if she wants to drive it then I'd be happy to teach her how, but I will not consider ever changing it for an automatic.

The key word in your argument is "partner". If she would be your "wife" perhaps you would have a different view.
Being able to drive a manual may not be on everybody's "must have" list when choosing a wife. If my wife would force me, let's say, into flower arrangements, I wouldn't be happy either.
I'm happy she can safely drive a car and that's more than enough. The work around would be to get a car exclusively for you (this would be the third car in my case), but for most this is a luxury indeed. My current work around is to get the manual mode on my cars; it's not the same as a manual, but somewhere in between, a compromise.

[dorin]

I see, so someone who drives an automatic is lazy and a whiner. I'll let my wife know. Since she is a Chartered Accountant and is writing her PhD thesis in Accounting, I'm certain she'll have a good laugh.

  I'm writing my PhD thesis in Computer Engineering - it doesn't mean that I'm not lazy and a whiner about certain things (going to gym for example).  Your wife might be a wonderful intelligent person but from the little you've described of her here she does sound like she's lazy and/or a whiner when it comes to driving a vehicle with a manual transmission. Unless there's some good reason why she won't do it which you haven't brought up yet...

[UmroAyyar]

The silly argument should be around whether a sports car be driven with an automatic.

Too much brouhaha for nothing. Stop calling each other's wives/partners. 

[dorin]

Here we go again.

I've recently started driving automatic tranmission vehicle (since 2004). There's nothing wrong or inferior about driving automatics. I don't have a medical issue (thanks Almighty  ) or restricted in any manner (my wife is willing to learn but it has to be our second car).

People in both camps need to stop whining about it. Some people don't like mayonnaise or spicy food.

I strongly disagree.  IMO there is something distinctly inferior about the driving experience with an automatic.  I agree that there's nothing "wrong" about wanting to have the inferior automatic driving experience, but I wish there was... 

Furthermore, people who only know how to drive automatics are also automatically inferior drivers.  The same as those of us who don't know how to double-clutch properly are inferior compared to those who do.

(so much for stirring the pot when I can just kick it over altogether)

[UmroAyyar]

Well, since we are talking about wives/partners.

My wife has only driven the inferior automatic transmission vehicles. I've noticed in a lot of instances, she's a better driver, has better response time compared to the superior manual transmission I learnt and drove for over 10 years.

I am not the goes like a bullet enthusiast driver. Choice of transmission in your car doesn't make one a superior/inferior driver. Its like choosing a dance style, you dance differently on auto/manual trans equipped car pedals. 

[quadzilla]

Furthermore, people who only know how to drive automatics are also automatically inferior drivers.  The same as those of us who don't know how to double-clutch properly are inferior compared to those who do.

(so much for stirring the pot when I can just kick it over altogether)

Since you kicked the pot over....

I agree with your second statement but not the first.

Furthermore, people who only know how to drive automatics are also automatically inferior drivers.

How does driving an automatic make the driver inferior? 

[tpl]

"Furthermore, people who only know how to drive automatics are also automatically inferior drivers.  The same as those of us who don't know how to double-clutch properly are inferior compared to those who do.

"

I know how to double declutch... owned several cars with no synchro on 1st and very little on other gears.  I have driven but not owned, a car with straight cut cogs which required a LOT of care to even change gear let alone do it without a crunch
But I dont do it... why should I. Both our cars have excellent synchromesh, well chosen ratios, and good clutches... AND, importantly, enough torque to obviate the need for many gearchanges.
Double declutching is one of those things that off a race track is only marginally useful in extreme slippery conditions.

Matching revs on a downchange on a slippery surface is another matter but that extra dab on the clutch is just pointless on a car with a modern gearbox.

[dorin]

Since you kicked the pot over....

I agree with your second statement but not the first.

Furthermore, people who only know how to drive automatics are also automatically inferior drivers.

How does driving an automatic make the driver inferior? 

It's not about driving an automatic per se, it's about only knowing how to drive an automatic.  Someone who only knows how to drive automatics is an inferior driver because that person does not have the feel for modulating traction that you get from learning how to engage a clutch.  Looking at it in a different way:
manual driver can drive {manual transmission vehicles, automatic transmission vehicles}
automatic driver can drive {automatic transmission vehicles}
{manual transmission vehicles, automatic transmission vehicles} > {automatic transmission vehicles}
therefore manual driver > automatic driver

[dorin]

I know how to double declutch... owned several cars with no synchro on 1st and very little on other gears.  I have driven but not owned, a car with straight cut cogs which required a LOT of care to even change gear let alone do it without a crunch
But I dont do it... why should I. Both our cars have excellent synchromesh, well chosen ratios, and good clutches... AND, importantly, enough torque to obviate the need for many gearchanges.
Double declutching is one of those things that off a race track is only marginally useful in extreme slippery conditions.

Matching revs on a downchange on a slippery surface is another matter but that extra dab on the clutch is just pointless on a car with a modern gearbox.

The point is that you have an extra driving skill and that by itself makes you a better driver than you would be otherwise.  Of course, there can be other drivers out there who only know how to drive automatics who are otherwise better drivers than you but even they would be better still if they additionally knew how to drive manuals and double-clutch.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Here we go again.

I've recently started driving automatic tranmission vehicle (since 2004). There's nothing wrong or inferior about driving automatics. I don't have a medical issue (thanks Almighty  ) or restricted in any manner (my wife is willing to learn but it has to be our second car).

People in both camps need to stop whining about it. Some people don't like mayonnaise or spicy food.

I strongly disagree.  IMO there is something distinctly inferior about the driving experience with an automatic.  I agree that there's nothing "wrong" about wanting to have the inferior automatic driving experience, but I wish there was... 

Furthermore, people who only know how to drive automatics are also automatically inferior drivers.  The same as those of us who don't know how to double-clutch properly are inferior compared to those who do.

(so much for stirring the pot when I can just kick it over altogether)

I don't like mayonnaise OR spicy food  

It's just simple. It's an extra step to driving, not all of us are enthusiasts, and really nowadays there's no NEED to drive manual. The option costs more for the 'luxury', but most modern autos don't consume substantially more fuel - sometimes less, they're for the most part responsive - sometimes moreso, and it's not unsafe or lazy. It's more comfortable if anything. And after a long day or on a long trip, comfort is valuable. And technically, the auto is more advanced - times have changed.

Why would that 'extra skill' be worth anything if you're NEVER going to drive a manual and there's no reason to be forced into it?

Dorin, your points and principals for these passionate issues make me laugh now and then.

[quadzilla]

I guarantee that I can drive my automatic car better than 50% of the people that drive manual cars.

Seriously, just because a person can drive a manual transmission it does not automatically (pun intended) make the a better driver.

In an emergency situation where the driver has to go from 100kmh down to 20kms shift into a lower gear, hard on the gas and throw in an emergency lane maneuver then accelerates.....there are a lot of manual driver that couldn't do that. 

[dorin]

It's just simple. It's an extra step to driving, not all of us are enthusiasts, and really nowadays there's no NEED to drive manual. The option costs more for the 'luxury', but most modern autos don't consume substantially more fuel - sometimes less, they're for the most part responsive - sometimes moreso, and it's not unsafe or lazy. It's more comfortable if anything. And after a long day or on a long trip, comfort is valuable. And technically, the auto is more advanced - times have changed.

I agree about the no-need-to factor, and it's the no-need-to drive manuals that makes us worse drivers overall.  The same way as we don't need to grow our food anymore and as a result we've become worse farmers overall.  It would be silly for most of us city dwellers to argue that we're just as good at farming as our rural ancestors from the past.

[jcon]

Your wife might be a wonderful intelligent person but from the little you've described of her here she does sound like she's lazy and/or a whiner when it comes to driving a vehicle with a manual transmission. Unless there's some good reason why she won't do it which you haven't brought up yet...

What have I described about my wife that says that she is lazy or a whiner?

Good reason - she doesn't enjoy it. What more reason do you need?

I know a lot of poor drivers with manuals so your argument holds no weight.