Topic: CD Article: GM minivans, 1997-2007

[Autos_Editor]

Today's Used Vehicle Review:

GM's second generation minivans, the Chevy Venture, Pontiac Trans Sport (later Montana) and Oldsmobile Silhouette offered poor crash test performance and some reliability problems, reports Contributing Editor, Chris Chase.  Things improved after a redesign in 2005, but overall these vans are not recommended.
   
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[K Dinda]

We have had out 2004 Montana for almost 4 years and aside from a cracked wiper fluid cap from the cold, it's been nothing but gas, oil and go. It's been a great van over all.

[ArticSteve]

The 3.4 destroyed GM's reputation for durable motors.  They let that problem go on forever before coming to terms with it.  June 2007 sales drop confirm.

[2JDM]

I remember reading the reviews of these in CR back when they first came out. They loved it. OBVIOUSLY better vans came onto the market...and GM failed to succeed, same with Ford.

The Caravan is the only good domestic minivan, IMO (later years). 

[Thinking Out Loud]

GM's first attempt at a cross-over; graft Jimmy Durante's nose on to the front of a minivan so it looks more truck like and hopefully people won't notice the sliding doors.

And Chris - MPV.com - sure there are minivan enthusiasts, and young ones at that!!

Personally I'd pass and get a 5 year old original-owner import mini over this if I were in the market....less unknowns to go wrong and, espeically in this case, you'd be assured of another 100,000kms in driving you'd never see in a Montana/Sillouette/TranSport/Relay/SV6 (insert badge engineering here:______).

That Canada edition of the Caravan at $16,000 is a tough financial proposition to argue against (tranny replacements or no) for a 7 person hauler...used car pricing with a new car warantee! 

[Blueprint]

Chris, look at mpvclub.com for Mazda MPV and Mazda 5 enthusiasts, started by Alex in Ottawa, odyclub.com for Honda minivans (HUGE membership there) and siennaclub.org for Toyota minivans.

I have friends who are stuck with their now-worthless '00 Montana, and boy did that van suffer a load of problems.  One time, a short in the dash (pinched wire straight from the factory) stranded the family of 6 (4 kids !) in the boonies.  And how do you fit 6 in a tow truck ?  You don't, and beg a ride.  When new, water would come in from the top of the windshield.  A/C stopped working, ditto cruise.  Interior hatch handle broke off (brittle plastics).

The van now has the coolant leak issue, and they are getting quotes in the 1500 - 2000 $ for repair.

[Thinking Out Loud]

Oooops - that's what I meant - MPVclub.com.

True on the domestics - I shopped with a friend whose 10+ year old Aerostar imploded and her budget tapped out in the low $20,000 range.

We found a 9 month old (late 2006 registered) 2006 Ford Freestar SEL with under 20,000kms.  Leather, power everything, DVD player, balance of warantee - so loaded I have no idea what the one step up Limited COULD have included - for $21,000.

I went on the Ford website and this thing listed NEW for $36,000 just 9 months earlier  .

[Blueprint]

Going with Chris' idea of a basic van, you can get a new, rental-grade swb Caravan just under 17k$ before taxes (two co-workers just bought higher grade Caravans for 20k$, new).  The loads of incentives and surreal msrp's influence the depreciation aspect.

[Blueprint]

Another tidbit on the GM vans :

I was part of Car and Driver's 2004 minivan comparo (June '04 issue), brought on board as "minivan expert" and freelance contributor.  I wrote the sidebar, and I'm the dude handling the child seat and driving the Sienna in the pics.

GM declined the invite and did not send a vehicle for the test  .  Expectations were low, anyway.

The Freestar had the highest msrp of the lot, yet felt the cheapest, and by far.  The pre-production GC lost trim bits due to cracks in the plastics.  The Quest also had trim alignement issues, and various rattles.

The Ody and Sienna were in a class of their own.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

If you look, GM is advertising new Montana SV6 regular wheelbases which I think are as good or even better value than the Canada Value Pkg Caravan. For $17,9 or $18,9, you get the 240hp engine, tinted glass, painted bumpers, power everything, etc which are lacking in the Caravan.

Dodge incentives these days are mad though, $10,000-ish.

Hard to argue the value in either. But wouldn't pick up an older GM with those horrendous crash test results and the 3.4L.

[2JDM]

A friend's dad has a 94'? Aerostar with almost 300,000 kms. His driveway looks like the Exxon Valdez was there. But, its still running very well.

[Mistermeow]

I think these GM minivans are just too risky a venture as a used vehicle purchase.

What a surprise another bad GM to add to list.....

[soj]

I have a 00 Montana (full load) which I came to because my 740 Turbo simply wasn't up to the task of hauling around 3 kids and a Lab anymore.  Got the vehicle a year and half ago with 66K on the clock, now it's close to 88K and it's had all the usual problems.  Servo pack in the tranny, $700; intake manifold gasket, $1100; the rest has been pretty much routine maintenance, tires, shocks, brakes, ..etc.  A pretty mundane drive but practical.  With the 7 seat set-up you can configure things pretty much anyway you like, in many ways this set-up is better than anything other than that which you find in the latest vans.  The self leveling rear suspension works well, it keeps the unit from doing what many other vans do under a full load, sit on their ass and plow through the corners.  Fuel economy isn't bad unless towing. On day trips with all aboard 26 - 28 mpg but towing a tent trailer 16 - 18 mpg at best.

At the time I bought, the main alternative considered was the 99 - 00 Odyssey but with double the mileage they were still $4K more.  So even after the intake manifold and servo pack work, the price tag was less.  I know the Honda is a much nicer ride, well kind of.  The handling is better on the Honda but on those early versions performance is no less anemic.

According to my mechanic, aside from the two major items mentioned, these vans don't really suffer from too many other problems.  Being NA you can no doubt get a bad one but in the town I live there are tons of them and most seem happy with them.  Having said that, I can't wait until my oldest turns 18 and I can get rid of it. 

[2JDM]

I've been in several Freestars while being shuttled to and from the dealer. All, including the less than one year old model, were rattle buckets. Scary.

Aren't their engines noisy as hell? They sure sound loud and course on the outside.

[C]

I am not sure why all the negative press and comment about domestic minivans or cars in general. It has become habitual I think with many consumer and analysts. Sure they have their problems but so does everything else. I remember when the 2nd genration Odyssey came out....they had transmission issues and Toyota as of Jan 2008 was one of the leading recallers for 2007 having issues with trucks and engines. 

I know you hear alot more about problems with these vans but they likely also outsell the imports 5:1, at least in 2004 they did. 

I just bought an 2004 Montana EXT. Sure it is not perfect but is also cost me nothing compared to alot of import alternatives. For the same price as my 2004 Montana with 100K on it, I could have bought a 2000 Civic with 150K plus....

I just don't see thw value here with buying the Civic.

Any car will last a long time if it is properly cared for an maintained.  I saw 2001 Montana on Kijiji last week for sale with 850,000 k's on it....was this a diamond in the rough? Possibly a bit, but it was also a van in which the owners cared for it and kept the maintainence up on it and instead of trading it in or selling it when it had 200k's on it because a black book says it is worth nothing he kept it.

Cars are machines...they break....if you take care of them they break less.

I think they are beautifule vans but unless you are buying new, I see no value in paying the massive premium on a used import van over a domestic unless there is a specific feature you need or must have.

Just my 2 cents

[Zoo]

I've been in several Freestars while being shuttled to and from the dealer. All, including the less than one year old model, were rattle buckets. Scary.

Aren't their engines noisy as hell? They sure sound loud and course on the outside.

Goodness yes!

I had the misfortune of having a Windstar (ugh) and Freestar (double triple ugh) a few years ago as sales vehicles. Simply awful machines with horrible fuel economy. The Grand Caravans were far superior. I had the joy of a 2001 Sienna for a couple of years and the van was really great on fuel and reliable as the day is long. While other reps were in rental vehicles while the Montanas and Windstars were in the shop I drove merrily on in my Sienna.

While the Astros were tanks and never broke on me I was never a fan of the GM FWD minivans. I really like the Grand Caravans though and only had one grenaded trannie at 190000kms with a van without a known service history. Overall the Grand Caravans served me very well.

[Honda Owner]

These, like most American products, are good for about 140,000 km and then they are done. The intake gasket is designed to fail at 60,001 km or 36 months and one second. The idea is to get a big whack of retail labour while the car still looks good. That said, you can get a GM van for $18k if you have cash in hand and for a new car, that is cheap. The Honda and Toyota are over priced in my opinion.

The Caravan is much better. The 3.3 engine is bullet proof and the transmissions last as long as the GM ones. Still has the same shelf life of about 140,000 before you start pumping cash into them.

Don't even consider a Freestar. They are horribly bad.