Topic: BMW 1 Series

[ovr50]

I don't have any problem with BMW selling a 2+2 coupe.  More power to them.  There's certainly a market for it.  But I DO have problems with 1addicts.com claiming that this 2+2 coupe it can comfortably transport four tall adults.  That's inaccurate fanboyism, period.  They may as well claim that it can beat a Z06 in the quarter mile.

I think you have to realize that the site "1addicts" is going to be quite pro-1 Series and maybe a bit biased. Any review by one of theirs is going to reflect that. I would say one should read maybe 10 different reviews and then form some opinions (that could again change once you actually see/experience the actual car).

Damn sure the Z06 can't seat 4.....

[initial_D]

To Be ONE, with the 1. Most car owners are biased.

Regardless how many people my car can carry, I really hate having passengers in the car.

[G0dspd]

I don't know of any compact sized cars with a back seat that can fit people over 6' comfortably.

One of the only car I can think of is the VW GTI (if it fits your definition of compact).  I've sat in a few over the years and the rear seats are very decent ... even with my 6'3 buddy sitting "comfortably" in the front.  The only problem is the akward access to the rear seats but I would imagine that the 4-door GTI fixes that problem (never tried one).

I know the A3 is more a cousin to the GTI than a clone but I can't figure out what Audi did to this car. The front and rear seats are claustrophobic ... maybe it's all the luxury. 

[Mitlov]

From what I hear, the back seat of the C30 is remarkably comfortable, but you have to be limber to twist in there.  Once you're in, you're treated to everything you'd expect from a Volvo bucket seat.

[initial_D]

And what kinda treatment should one expect from a Volvo backseat?  Do you have to sitdown or ... to take it? 

I don't know of any compact sized cars with a back seat that can fit people over 6' comfortably.

One of the only car I can think of is the VW GTI (if it fits your definition of compact).  I've sat in a few over the years and the rear seats are very decent ... even with my 6'3 buddy sitting "comfortably" in the front.  The only problem is the akward access to the rear seats but I would imagine that the 4-door GTI fixes that problem (never tried one).

I know the A3 is more a cousin to the GTI than a clone but I can't figure out what Audi did to this car. The front and rear seats are claustrophobic ... maybe it's all the luxury. 

Never sat in the Back of the GTI, but the roominess and size shouldn't different from other lower trim models tho.

[HeliDriver]

OK but if you want to prick their fanboy bubbleheadedness then why quibble about the stupid rear seats when they give you a ridiculous statement like this to attack?

Onto the 135i. With 300hp and 300 ft-lbs of torque you can expect this car to be an absolute rocket. I'll even go so far as to say that a slightly tweaked 135i should be able to keep up with the upcoming M3!
 

Seems plausible to me.

Increasing the boost on the 135's turbo motor is only a chip away, and would certainly qualify as a "slight tweak", IMO. If you don't care about reliability, I don't see why you couldn't easily get four or five hundred HP out of that engine.

In a car that'll probably be a couple hundred pounds lighter than an M3, I'd even go so far as to say that a "slightly tweaked" 135i could kick a stock M3's ass. 

[Wolfe]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the two turbos are in parallel, each feeding 3 cylinders IIRC. They're also small, which on one hand minimizes turbo lag but also limits the maximim available boost too.

I'm sure that engine is capable of making the 400-500hp you mention, just not with chipping alone and that would take things out of the realm of "slightly tweaked."

In a car that'll probably be a couple hundred pounds lighter than an M3, I'd even go so far as to say that a "slightly tweaked" 135i could kick a stock M3's ass. 

  I have a bit more faith in the engineers in the M division, otherwise what would be the point.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

If the 1 series costs about the same as the 3 series, what's the point?

[initial_D]

iDrive optional on the 1 series?  Although I found the iDrive is not hard to use at all, even the first time without reading the user manual.

The 135i have standard m-tuned suspension, 6 piston-calipers brakes on the front axle, dual pistons rear, that setup means serious business. 

[mdxtasy]

The 135 is really going to raise some eyebrows with the performance of it.  300hp turbo engine will less tonnage to lug around.  It's going to run a few 335i's into embarrassment (unless they change the gearing) and really annoy some M3's.  If the 335i gets to 60 in under 5, the 135 (with the same drivetrain) will be in mid 4's.  That's going to mean the M3 will need to play in the low 4's.  Right where the Corvette and 911's are. 

[Mitlov]

If the 1 series costs about the same as the 3 series, what's the point?

I predict a relatively small price difference between the 1-Series coupe and 3-Series sedan in base pricing, but a major difference in "typically-equipped" 1-Serieses and 3-Serieses.  Most 3-Serieses on the lot of my local BMW dealer have $5000 or more options, most or all of them luxury-oriented instead of sport-oriented.  Good luck finding a 3-Series on a lot with manually-adjustable leatherette seats and a manual transmission.  But I don't think the same will be true of the 1-Series.

[Wolfe]

The 135 is really going to raise some eyebrows with the performance of it.  300hp turbo engine will less tonnage to lug around.  It's going to run a few 335i's into embarrassment (unless they change the gearing) and really annoy some M3's.  If the 335i gets to 60 in under 5, the 135 (with the same drivetrain) will be in mid 4's.  That's going to mean the M3 will need to play in the low 4's.  Right where the Corvette and 911's are. 

How about if the 135i is lugging around the same tonnage, just in a smaller package?

I don't know if the weights below are accurate but 50Kg is not a big difference.

Leaked 1 series brochure (UK version).

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=678

135i (UK) - 1560kg (unladen weight EU - figure includes gas tank at 90% + 68kg driver + 7kg luggage)

335i M sport saloon (UK) - 1610kg (unladen weight EU)

What a little piggy.....

[mdxtasy]

I've read 200lbs difference between 1 and 3 series....and now some are saying 100lbs.  It's a crapshoot to try and pin down the weight, but if it's the same drivetrain with the same weight, it should not be any faster really....

[Julie]

If the 1 series costs about the same as the 3 series, what's the point?

I predict a relatively small price difference between the 1-Series coupe and 3-Series sedan in base pricing, but a major difference in "typically-equipped" 1-Serieses and 3-Serieses.  Most 3-Serieses on the lot of my local BMW dealer have $5000 or more options, most or all of them luxury-oriented instead of sport-oriented.  Good luck finding a 3-Series on a lot with manually-adjustable leatherette seats and a manual transmission.  But I don't think the same will be true of the 1-Series.

Base price to base price, I predict the 1 series will be a few (e.g. 3) thousand less (in Canada) than their 3-series coupe counterparts, and likely almost as expensive as the sedans.

I understand how the typical 3 series on the dealer lot is never a stripper.... however, somehow, I just can't imagine BMW offering a lot of stripper 128i on their lots either... Humm... that makes me wonder. BMW advertises low prices to lease a stripper 323i in Canada, wonder if they actually have any of those on their lots.... If they do, well maybe they'll have stripper 128i vehicles too...

[Traum]

I understand how the typical 3 series on the dealer lot is never a stripper.... however, somehow, I just can't imagine BMW offering a lot of stripper 128i on their lots either... Humm... that makes me wonder. BMW advertises low prices to lease a stripper 323i in Canada, wonder if they actually have any of those on their lots.... If they do, well maybe they'll have stripper 128i vehicles too...

I think you pretty much have to factory order one if you want a stripper. At least, I think that's what happens with the 3-series.

-Rick

[ovr50]

I understand how the typical 3 series on the dealer lot is never a stripper.... however, somehow, I just can't imagine BMW offering a lot of stripper 128i on their lots either... Humm... that makes me wonder. BMW advertises low prices to lease a stripper 323i in Canada, wonder if they actually have any of those on their lots.... If they do, well maybe they'll have stripper 128i vehicles too...

I think you pretty much have to factory order one if you want a stripper. At least, I think that's what happens with the 3-series.

-Rick

Nope, not the case here, local dealer has several 323i on the lot. And has had at other times during the year. But it is true that many more expensive models are ordered with all the options included.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Lots of 323i's here too, although I don't know what options they may have on them. The alloys make them easy to spot.

I'm anticipating the 128i to start around $33-35, with the 135i starting somewhere around $42-44.

[ovr50]

Lots of 323i's here too, although I don't know what options they may have on them. The alloys make them easy to spot.

I'm anticipating the 128i to start around $33-35, with the 135i starting somewhere around $42-44.

I wager you are very close.

[GTI-Gabe]

Lots of 323i's here too, although I don't know what options they may have on them. The alloys make them easy to spot.

I'm anticipating the 128i to start around $33-35, with the 135i starting somewhere around $42-44.

I really don't expect pricing of the 128 to be below the 323s.

Specially when you consider the following:
  1) Coupe > Sedan
  2) 3.0L (230hp) > 2.5L (200hp)

Knowing that the 323 (sedan) starts at $35k and the 328 coupe at $43k (sedan at $41k), I expect pricing somewhere in the middle  ($38k perhaps?)

I really don't see this car selling like crazy in Canada (unlike American's expect south of the border) considering it's a coupe and not as versatile as other luxury brands (A3 & B-Class).  I know, I know that the 318ti was a "disaster" and they didn't want to repeat that mistake by bringing another hatch, but the 318ti's failure was not due to being a hatch.  Anyone who has seen one knows that it had a horrid interior (cheapppp), engine option was lacking to say the least (1.8L), and was an unussable hatch (unlike the current 1 Series hatch)

I'm hoping we see the 1 Series hatch in Canada one day, then I'll consider the car  )


Note: Any money talk is in Canadian dollars.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Lots of 323i's here too, although I don't know what options they may have on them. The alloys make them easy to spot.

I'm anticipating the 128i to start around $33-35, with the 135i starting somewhere around $42-44.

I don't expect pricing of the 128 to be below the 323s.

Specially when you consider the following:
  Coupe > Sedan
  2.5L > 3.0L

Knowing that the 323 (sedan) starts at $35k and the 328 coupe at $43k (sedan at $41k), I expect pricing somewhere in the middle  ($38k perhaps?)

Note: I'm talking in Canadian dollars here.

Yeah, it's kind of hard to know where they'll fit it with it being a coupé ('07MY prices)...
323i Sdn $35,5   
328i Sdn $40,9   328i Cpe $43,5
335i Sdn $49,8   335i Cpe $51,5

If it were a hatch, I'd say it would slot above the MINI Cooper S $30,5 and at a slight premium but comparable to C30 T5 $32, A3 $33,8 and B200 Turbo $34.

With it being a coupé, and a performance coupé at that, thinking BMW wants to aim higher. And they probably can. Don't think they'll import anywhere near the volume that they do with the 3 (they want to complement 3 sales not slice into them) and won't advertise attractive lease pricing like they do with the 323i. Still, it needs to be competitive and it is a fairly small vehicle. I think the base will be attractive on the 128i with more options offered, whereas the 135i will be more comprehensively equipped.

So for me the 135i will be low to mid $40's... the 128i is the big question mark. Low $30's or high $30's? With that engine and the image they're going after would make sense to say high 30's, but they have an opportunity here so I think they will go mid 30's. You're right, low 30's was perhaps estimating too low. Playing safe is lame, but I'll revise 128i to $35-37 

With that, I love the M-Coupé as much as the next guy, but at $68,9...