Author Topic: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota  (Read 8199 times)

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« on: April 18, 2007, 07:58:16 am »
In survey of 31,000 new vehicle owners, Ford beats industry average for problems.

Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News

In terms of initial vehicle quality, Ford Motor Co. is in a statistical dead-heat for second place with Japan's Toyota Motor Corp. and Nissan Motor Co., according to a new study the Dearborn automaker plans to release today. Honda Motor Co. is the quality leader.

The report is based on an annual survey of 31,000 new vehicle owners that was conducted for Ford by the RDA Group, a market research firm based in Bloomfield Hills. The study evaluated 2007 model cars and trucks from all full-line manufacturers and asked drivers to list any problems they had encountered during their first 90 days of ownership.

The Detroit News reviewed the findings with sources familiar with the report. These sources said four Ford vehicles -- the Mercury Milan, Ford Shelby GT-500, Ford Expedition EL and Lincoln Navigator -- led their segments in initial quality.

Improving quality is a major goal for Ford, which is struggling to hold on to what remains of its U.S. market share after years of losses to foreign competitors.

The RDA study found Ford cars and trucks had 1,458 problems per 1,000 vehicles -- 32 fewer problems than the industry average of 1,490 and 128 fewer than Ford customers reported last year.

The results were even better for Ford's North American brands -- Ford, Lincoln and Mercury -- which combined had 1,456 problems per 1,000 vehicles. Sources said the overall number was slightly hurt by the automaker's European brands.

The Milan was one of the most problem-free vehicles from any manufacturer, with just 910 issues reported per 1,000 vehicles.

Ford spokeswoman Anne Marie Gattari confirmed the existence of the report, but would not discuss the findings. She said the company will release the details today, but wanted to tell employees first. She said improving quality is a central aim of the company's Way Forward turnaround plan.

"We are pleased with the direction of our quality, but we're not satisfied," Gattari said. "This is something we have to continue to be diligent with. Quality, along with safety, innovation and design, are our top priorities in delivering more vehicles that customers want."

Consumers need convincing

While the RDA study found that Ford has closed the quality gap with its Japanese rivals, it also found the company still lags its Asian competitors in customer satisfaction and another key metric: whether or not customers would recommend the brand to other car buyers.

RDA has been conducting the annual survey for Ford since the late 1990s. The marketing firm conducts similar studies for other automakers, and its findings have historically hewed close to those of the closely-watched annual initial quality survey independently conducted by J.D. Power and Associates of Westlake Village, Calif.

Most of Ford's brands lagged well behind Toyota in last year's J.D. Power study, but those results reflected a new survey methodology the firm adopted for 2006.

Other independent analysts have also noted a marked improvement in Ford's quality in recent years -- most notably Consumer Reports magazine, which recently declared the Milan and its Blue Oval sibling, the Ford Fusion, the most impressive new vehicles of the 2007 model year.

"We see Ford as the top domestic in many ways," said David Champion, senior director for automotive testing at Consumer Reports. "They've realized they're going to be eaten for lunch if they don't produce reliable vehicles."

Champion said Ford's newer products show a marked improvement over those the automaker was turning out just a few years ago. He said the company has learned from past mistakes as well as from its Japanese affiliate, Mazda Motor Corp., which shares many common production practices with Toyota.

Spreading the news

Improved quality is helping Ford reduce its warranty costs, according to another recent internal report obtained by The News.

And dealers say improved quality is helping bring customers back into their showrooms.

"We're not seeing the recalls after the launch of the vehicles like we used to," said Tim Mullahey of Mullahey Ford in Arroyo Grande, Calif. He said rampant recalls in the 1990s did immeasurable damage to Ford's brand image. Now, he and other dealers are touting Ford's recent quality improvements in their advertising. "The problem is really one of perception. We're trying to overcome the stereotypes."

Doug North, of North Brothers Ford in Westland, hopes the company will also do more to trumpet the good quality news.

"We need to be better cheerleaders for our successes," he said.

Recent Ford ads are touting the merits of Ford vehicles over competitors' models. They are naming names and staking claims to best-in-class performance and features. North wants to see more of that going forward.

Still, it takes more than strong initial quality reports to convince car buyers to stick with a brand, Champion said.

"It's the long-term durability that will really put Ford back on the map."



UmroAyyar

  • Guest
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2007, 09:20:17 am »
Ford has done well by treating Volvo and Mazda not as subsidaries they control, but as partner companies. Common production practices and platforms is starting to bear fruit for Ford.  :thumbup:

Toyota needs to up the ante if it wants to retain its 'quality' reputation. Hyundai is already hot on its heels, Ford, GM are improving very fast.

avtoller

  • Guest
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2007, 09:49:16 am »
"The report is based on an annual survey of 31,000 new vehicle owners that was conducted for Ford by the RDA Group, a market research firm based in Bloomfield Hills. The study evaluated 2007 model cars and trucks from all full-line manufacturers and asked drivers to list any problems they had encountered during their first 90 days of ownership."

 ::) ::) Does this mean much of anything?  ::) ::)

Offline MKII

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 2509
  • Carma: +19/-83
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2007, 10:41:58 am »
"The report is based on an annual survey of 31,000 new vehicle owners that was conducted for Ford by the RDA Group, a market research firm based in Bloomfield Hills. The study evaluated 2007 model cars and trucks from all full-line manufacturers and asked drivers to list any problems they had encountered during their first 90 days of ownership."

 ::) ::) Does this mean much of anything?  ::) ::)

"We see Ford as the top domestic in many ways," said David Champion :popo:, senior director for automotive testing at Consumer Reports. "

Mr Champion of CR is not known to have anything good to say about the domestics, and I do not believe he works for RDA Group.
"Does this mean much of anything?" ::) ::) ??? :o

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2007, 01:04:57 pm »
I believe by having a favourable 90 defect free offering is a good first step in building some confidence. Only time will tell if this is carried forward 130k km.

Offline PJungnitsch

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13022
  • Carma: +170/-337
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Travel in Africa
  • Cars: Subaru Crosstrek, Lexus RX350, Evolve Carbon, Biktrix Juggernaut, Yamaha TW200
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2007, 01:31:34 pm »
::) ::) Does this mean much of anything?  ::) ::)

It's a step I guess. Initial quality though (a measure of getting assembly right?) shouldn't be that much of a big deal. Like the CR fellow said:

Quote
Still, it takes more than strong initial quality reports to convince car buyers to stick with a brand, Champion said.

"It's the long-term durability that will really put Ford back on the map."

Long term results, that is what will make the difference. Build them for ownership, not just for the sale.

Mitlov

  • Guest
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2007, 02:20:18 pm »
I like how they say that Ford leads certain segments, including with the Shelby GT500.  What other cars are in that segment?  ???  Of particular interest, since they're comparing themselves to Toyota, what's Toyota's competitor with the GT500?  ???

That said, for the record, Consumer Reports' reliability ratings of the Milan match Ford's own survey.  And the F-Series is the second-most-reliable full-size after the Tundra, according to CR.

avtoller

  • Guest
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2007, 03:20:50 pm »
I repeat: "conducted for Ford by the RDA Group"

Offline 2latecrew

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • Carma: +11/-4
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2007 Nissan Sentra (AKA The Toaster)
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2007, 03:33:09 pm »
Strange. The Milan is a "segemtn leader" but is twin the Fusion is not?

Maybe becuse the sample size on the Milan is less than 1/3 the Fusion?

Quote
ombined sales for Ford's new mid-size sedans were 24,094, up 40 percent compared with March 2006. Fusion sales were 15,790 (any-month record), up 48 percent compared with a year ago, and eclipsed the previous record of 15,468 set August 2006. Milan sales were 4,678 (any-month record), up 45 percent, and bettered the previous record of 4,156 set August 2006.

Offline WpgMonty

  • Learner's Permit
  • *
  • Posts: 174
  • Carma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • car nut, hockey fan and dog lover
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2010 BMW 335I, 2005 Ford Focus, 2001 Ford Ranger
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2007, 04:17:54 pm »
Maybe the survey only targets the first 90 days of ownership, but the same survey done, say 15 years ago, would have shown what?

Ford and GM have taken huge steps with initial quality, something that could not have been said with any confidence even 5 short years ago.

As I have mentioned in a few other threads Mrs. Monty and I are looking for a vehicle to replace our late lamented Voyager, and our perception of the quality of Ford and GM products has changed dramatically.

The specific offerings that we have taken for test drives, Ford's Freestyle, Escape, Edge and Explorer and GM's Cadillac SRX, Pontiac Torrent and Chevrolet Equinox have been darn near as impressive as anything from Toyota or Honda. I would say that the Freestyle and the Edge are probably equal to, or better than some of the Asian offerings, IMHO.

Our Ford Focus, which is now 21 months old, has been in for one, that's right ONE, warranty issue in the entire 21 months it has been in service. I have the previous owner's service records which show no warranty work was ever required in the 20,000 kilometers he owned it for, and we have had an ABS sensor and controller unit replaced in the further 10,000 kilometers we added to the car.

Ford hasn't just upped the quality on it's cars. According to a friend that works for a local dealer, Ford is becoming more sensitive to it's dealer network and it's dealer reputations as well. There's a whole program called "The Way Forward", which also has repercussions for the dealer network, and service and sales employees as well.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2007, 06:40:17 pm by WpgMonty »
"It's a great day for hockey!" "Badger" Bob Johnson

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2007, 04:39:02 pm »
Yes people, lets not all step on the domestic hand as it reached up from the depths.

I like to see corporate offices in North America as they employ tens of thousands along with supporting industries

Offline ovr50

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 18453
  • Carma: +27/-126
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2007, 04:40:23 pm »

I like to see corporate offices in North America as they employ tens of thousands along with supporting industries


 :iagree: :iagree:
2022 Mazda CX-5 Signature Turbo in Snowflake White Pearl
and
2012 Toyota Camry SE V6 in Alpine White

avtoller

  • Guest
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2007, 05:13:53 pm »
I would certainly like it if the reported findings were accurate. I was simply saying that the posting provides me with little reason to have confidence in the accuracy of the implications. To be slightly extreme, 20 "studies" could have been commissioned,by Ford, with only 1 finding the results they were looking for. That one is published, the other 19 buried. I spent too many years dealing with survey and research results to have ANY faith in the results of a survey commissioned by an interested party. Even most "arms-length" surveys are difficult to interpret reasonably.

Mitlov

  • Guest
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2007, 06:47:09 pm »
I would certainly like it if the reported findings were accurate. I was simply saying that the posting provides me with little reason to have confidence in the accuracy of the implications. To be slightly extreme, 20 "studies" could have been commissioned,by Ford, with only 1 finding the results they were looking for. That one is published, the other 19 buried. I spent too many years dealing with survey and research results to have ANY faith in the results of a survey commissioned by an interested party. Even most "arms-length" surveys are difficult to interpret reasonably.

That's why I brought up the Consumer Reports ratings of the Fusion/Milan and the F-150.  They're NOT tied to Ford, and certainly can't be accused of being biased toward domestics.

And while some may poo-poo the CR ratings of the Fusion-Milan because they're only a year old, the Escape has been "above average" in reliability for quite a few years now.

Offline Cord

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 5095
  • Carma: +104/-115
    • View Profile
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2007, 06:57:45 pm »
Quote
Strange. The Milan is a "segemtn leader" but is twin the Fusion is not?

Maybe becuse the sample size on the Milan is less than 1/3 the Fusion?

Maybe because they don't compete in the same segment?
"If we can just believe something then we don't have to really think for ourselves, do we?" Paul Haggis

Offline PJungnitsch

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13022
  • Carma: +170/-337
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Travel in Africa
  • Cars: Subaru Crosstrek, Lexus RX350, Evolve Carbon, Biktrix Juggernaut, Yamaha TW200
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2007, 07:03:01 pm »
A long article on Ford and the turnaround struggle here:

http://www.portfolio.com/executives/features/2007/04/16/Driven-to-the-Brink?page=0

Some interesting quotes:

Quote
It’s all on the line. For the last year, the family had been preparing for bad news, but Anne Ford, for one, wouldn’t feel the full import of that path until she opened the newspaper on November 28 and read the headline. There it was in black and white. The company had mortgaged everything: the factories, the offices, the patents, the trademarks. “The blue oval, even,” she says, the one with her great-grandfather’s name inside. “I felt sick. I felt terrible. Because if we lose, we lose everything.”

Quote
Meanwhile, Mulally has blown through protocols. He reorganized Ford’s car business into three parts: the Americas, Europe, and Asia. In weekly meetings, he manages by metrics, requiring execs to post their numbers, forcing transparency and keeping the pressure on. Not only does Mulally ignore industry conventions, but he also doesn’t seem to know or care what they are. He called Chrysler C.E.O. Tom LaSorda to offer “moral support” when the company went up for sale. He raised eyebrows when he decided to bring back the beloved Ford Taurus—by slapping the name on the Ford Five Hundred, its slow-selling sedan. Eighty percent of the public knows the Taurus, he reasons, while less than 35 percent know the Five Hundred.

Some on Wall Street still relish a marriage of Ford with Renault-Nissan. Not Mulally. If a partnership is inevitable, it’s clear where his heart lies. “If you think I have a relationship with Ford, I have an unbelievable relationship with Toyota,” he says. Because Boeing essentially created the aerospace industry in postwar Japan, he’s been there 47 times, he explains. “Every time I go, I always check in with Toyota. It’s history. It’s family. Safe, efficient transportation for all, right? Think about the parallels.” But he won’t say whether his remarks hint at some kind of partnership down the road. No comment, he teases.



Offline 2latecrew

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1254
  • Carma: +11/-4
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2007 Nissan Sentra (AKA The Toaster)
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2007, 10:52:00 pm »
Quote
Strange. The Milan is a "segment leader" but is twin the Fusion is not?

Maybe because the sample size on the Milan is less than 1/3 the Fusion?

Maybe because they don't compete in the same segment?

Strange since they have the EXACT same dimensions, interior and exterior, same engine tranny suspension AND are priced almost identically.

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13396
  • Carma: +8/-54
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2001 VW Golf TDI 3Dr 5MT, 2007 VW Golf GTI 6MT, 2008 Saturn Astra XR 5Dr 4AT, 2010 VW Golf Wagon TDI 6MT, 2014 Chevrolet Orlando 2LT
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2007, 11:31:28 am »
As the owner of a Ford Five Hundred I don't see how Ford can be ranked along with Toyota, unless the other models are much, much better. Most Fusion reviews I've read would support that (I do love the look of it), but the Escape? No. The Focus? I doubt it. The Freestyle? Same boat as the 500. The Mustang? No idea.

Have you had problems with your Five Hundred, or what makes you say that?
AQUAMAN64 also posts on DriverBlogs.com!

Paul Allen

  • Guest
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2007, 01:09:59 pm »
A few niggly things that were probably early glitches but the suspension and transmission really don't like cold weather. And by cold I mean less than 0C.
Toyota's also have their problems, in fact from what I have read, their quality has slipped a little lately.  A car is a mechanical device and none are perfect.  It is quite possible that Ford is equal to Toyota.

Offline mrthompson

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 9830
  • Carma: +70/-42
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2008 Honda CR-V (The Green Machine)
Re: Ford: Quality equal to Toyota
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2007, 02:03:32 pm »
Aisin made the 4 speed auto in my '94 Cherokee, and I believe the same tranny (or a variant of it) was used in the same vintage of Toyota 4Runner.