Author Topic: car insurance  (Read 26833 times)

Offline lampskin

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2007, 11:09:23 pm »
To respond to the original post:

If you live in a rural area, a lot of farmers mutual insurance companies will give you great rates!
I think it's because of the lower accident rates in rural areas.

I'm with Trillium Mutual out of Formosa, Ontario.  They have decent rates.  I'm only paying 600/yr for house, and it would be another 600 for basic coverage(liability only) for my '94 eagle summit 2 dr coupe

The best way to pay low rates is to live in the country, have the same company do the policy for your home and auto, be over 25, with your full G license, and drive an older family sedan.

The rates on new cars are much more than on older used cars.


Offline ArticSteve

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2007, 11:28:35 pm »
To respond to the original post:

If you live in a rural area, a lot of farmers mutual insurance companies will give you great rates!
I think it's because of the lower accident rates in rural areas.

I'm with Trillium Mutual out of Formosa, Ontario.  They have decent rates.  I'm only paying 600/yr for house, and it would be another 600 for basic coverage(liability only) for my '94 eagle summit 2 dr coupe

The best way to pay low rates is to live in the country, have the same company do the policy for your home and auto, be over 25, with your full G license, and drive an older family sedan.

The rates on new cars are much more than on older used cars.



I'm with Trillium as well essentially because my farm was insured through Formosa Mutual, now Trillium, and I got good payouts on some losses.  However, Trillium is actually a tad more than some of the other larger general insurers, but because they are much smaller I felt I'd have a better chance of getting a fair deal on a big loss so I went with them on my new house.

Cost of house insurance is directly related to what the stated guaranteed replacement cost is and one's proximity to water supply and fire department.

At any rate, home insurance has sprung up like everything else in the last two or three years.




Furrtiv

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2007, 04:45:16 pm »
My current insurance in th UK is £122, fully comprehensive, on my old car. Regardless of whether I manage to export it to Canada or not, I guess I'm going to be paying massively high premiums then? :(

Offline ovr50

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2007, 04:54:37 pm »
I'm guessing that 122 pounds is about $250 or so - then the answer is "yes" - as a new driver in Canada, probably 8 to 10 times that.... :P :P :P. I could be wrong, depends a bit on where you relocate, but I suspect you'll pay a LOT more. I assumed you meant for the year, not a month?
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Offline Titanium48

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2007, 05:01:27 pm »
Move to Quebec, Manitoba, Saskatchewan or BC.  They're the only provinces that have seen the light and gone with public insurance.  As a result, they have the lowest rates in the country.

Offline ovr50

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2007, 05:03:24 pm »
Even in BC with ICBC, being a new driver with no discount record, I would guess the insurance will be in the range of $1500 to $2500 - just a guess.

vblanche

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2007, 05:30:42 pm »
so, someone explains me why it's a rip off in ontario?

Offline rockford

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2007, 05:51:33 pm »
I have mentioned the website www.kanetix.ca to numberous clients and just over 50% claim savings of 50 bucks or more a month.... it will actually list upto ten quotes....

belair direct, direct protect are just a couple of companies with preferred rates...
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Offline Titanium48

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2007, 06:20:12 pm »
Even in BC with ICBC, being a new driver with no discount record, I would guess the insurance will be in the range of $1500 to $2500 - just a guess.

BC is the highest priced of the public insurance jurisdictions.  Manitoba is the lowest (about 2/3 of BC rates as of 2003).

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2007, 06:22:50 pm »
so, someone explains me why it's a rip off in ontario?

Insurance industry in Canada is primarily based in southern Ontario and has a lock on provincial politics like no others.  Danny Williams stood up to them in Newfoundland and banned rates based on age.  :thumbup:

Offline tpl

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2007, 06:48:54 pm »
so, someone explains me why it's a rip off in ontario?

because some years ago the provincial gov at the time decided that auto insurance included a compulsory accident benefits section and then to make it worse they managed to make an easy to corrupt way of deciding when someone was entitled to that benefit.  This appeared to save them money on OHIP at the time but it corrupted the hitherto reasonably priced auto insurance market

To make things even worse they introduced no-fault.
So in Ontario, auto insurance is a disguised social program to ensure that bad drivers can stay on the road and enrich insurance companies.  The regulations also ensure that no company with a better idea of how to do insurance can enter the market.

The most radical revolutionary will become a conservative the day after the revolution.

vblanche

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2007, 06:51:24 pm »
ooah...so, it's time to leave ontario then.

Offline tpl

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2007, 06:59:38 pm »
vblanche, we would love you to stay and by your good driving and paying a fortune for insurance , keep our rates down.  :D :)

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2007, 07:30:17 pm »
The whole scheme was put in place by Insurance companies in the late 80's to increase profits by paying less to lawyers.  The Province got on side because 65% of all cases before the two highest courts were auto litigation.

But this thread is really about new drivers and that is where the companies really slam ppl.   The companies have also dumped the 2 moving violations free thingy.  Why the government holds demerit points for only 2 years, but allows the companies to hold the records for 3 years is also an example of who calls the shots.

avtoller

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2007, 09:03:16 pm »
BC is the highest priced of the public insurance jurisdictions.  Manitoba is the lowest (about 2/3 of BC rates as of 2003).

Driving conditions and driver populations are VERY different between BC and Manitoba.

jbbadboy

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2007, 11:43:17 pm »
You obviously don't represent the Pilot.

Here is a reason for the mandatory disclosure.  Say you rear end somebody, but little damage.  The ppl you hit are reasonable and agree not to report it and take your word for it that you will pay and you do. 

Here is the problem from the Insurance company's POV.  These same ppl may in 3 months come down with an illness that they have "deemed" might have been a result of that rear ender.  However, legally, the insurance company is still on the hook for the liability due to personal injury.  Their position is that they want to know about any potential loss immediately, regardless if the insured is paying out of pocket because it still represents a potential loss to them.

Brokers have their place, but charge 10-20% for their services.  Usually 15%.  Worth it for some, not for others.


In fact, Pilot Insurance is the largest of the companies in our brokerage...I've been insured with them myself for coming up to 6 years!  :)

What you state above CAN happen, but rarely does. Each accident is different and can't possibly be looked at individually here. 

Brokers DO NOT charge clients more for their services. This is unfortunately another misconception about brokers. Brokerages are paid a set percentage of the premiums written for an insurance company. However, rates are strictly regulated and you will find no difference getting a Pilot quote from my office in Toronto than from a brokerage operating in Sudbury with everything (vehicle/coverage etc.) being the same.

If a broker were to quote you the lowest premium of all the companies they represent, let's say $1000 and you get a quote with a direct writer for $950, it is not the brokerage charging you the $50 difference for it's services, the $50 is only a difference in price.
 
The point I was trying to make is that a broker, including yours, is supposed to be an insurance advisor to you and should be there to answer all of your questions and not scare you into thinking you shouldn't ask. It's this relationship that is the major difference in the relationship between broker & client vs. client & direct writer.

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2007, 12:02:53 am »
I find it funny when I hear the old wifes tale that if you call your insurance company for advice they will rate you just from letting them know something happened.

Hogwash.

At least in Alberta, I work in a claims department with TD insurance and that couldn't be further from the truth. You pay premiums for a service, you would only see a negative impact to your rates if you filed a claim that you were at-fault for, and something was ultimately paid out... nothing paid... no negative rating. I've never heard of other companys that do anything like that either in my circles.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2007, 12:46:38 am »
I find it funny when I hear the old wifes tale that if you call your insurance company for advice they will rate you just from letting them know something happened.

Hogwash.

At least in Alberta, I work in a claims department with TD insurance and that couldn't be further from the truth. You pay premiums for a service, you would only see a negative impact to your rates if you filed a claim that you were at-fault for, and something was ultimately paid out... nothing paid... no negative rating. I've never heard of other companys that do anything like that either in my circles.


I work in a claims department with TD insurance

Well then what is your position?

You pay premiums for a service, you would only see a negative impact to your rates if you filed a claim that you were at-fault for, and something was ultimately paid out... nothing paid... no negative rating

That is not TD's position in Ontario.  Call them or read your policy.  I believe the Dominion of Canada is the only Ontario company that takes that position up to 2K in damages.  Insurance companies rate people on risk not what they pay out.  Under Ontario insurance regulations an at fault accident costing $200. in damages carries the same sanction as an accident costing 2 million; namely one "at fault" accident.  So if you have an at fault accident in Ontario, you might as well make it a good one.  :)  For any doubters, call your company directly. Educate yourself to an unpleasant reality.

Or talk to an auto body owner about how many ppl pay cash without receipts to avoid their insurance company finding out about a minor prang.

Offline ArticSteve

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2007, 01:26:49 am »

In fact, Pilot Insurance is the largest of the companies in our brokerage...I've been insured with them myself for coming up to 6 years!  :)

What you state above CAN happen, but rarely does. Each accident is different and can't possibly be looked at individually here. 

Brokers DO NOT charge clients more for their services. This is unfortunately another misconception about brokers. Brokerages are paid a set percentage of the premiums written for an insurance company. However, rates are strictly regulated and you will find no difference getting a Pilot quote from my office in Toronto than from a brokerage operating in Sudbury with everything (vehicle/coverage etc.) being the same.

If a broker were to quote you the lowest premium of all the companies they represent, let's say $1000 and you get a quote with a direct writer for $950, it is not the brokerage charging you the $50 difference for it's services, the $50 is only a difference in price.
 
The point I was trying to make is that a broker, including yours, is supposed to be an insurance advisor to you and should be there to answer all of your questions and not scare you into thinking you shouldn't ask. It's this relationship that is the major difference in the relationship between broker & client vs. client & direct writer.

Brokers DO NOT charge clients more for their services.

Sure they do.  Every year along with my policy I get a disclosure form stating that the brokerage company is  receiving a commission anywhere from 10 to 20%  from the insurance company that underwrites my policy.  So you say: Brokers DO NOT charge clients more for their services  Correct.  But what you don't say is that you receive a commission from the company, obviously.  It amounts to the same thing.

Now I'm still with a broker because for me there is still value in their service even though I might save a few bucks with a direct insurer.   I have tried numerous options and I believe the broker system is better on the claims end of things which is really the main service one is buying.

The point I was trying to make is that a broker, including yours, is supposed to be an insurance advisor to you and should be there to answer all of your questions and not scare you into thinking you shouldn't ask.

Of course.   But their first obligation is to the company.  Example:  You as a broker get a call from one of your customers insured by the Pilot.  They say they hit something like a tree or a rock and there might be 3K in damage.  They ask what is their best option economically.  Submit a claim, pay the deductible and get the insurance company to pay for the repair or just suck it up and pay out of pocket because future rate increases would exceed the cost of repair.  Oh, and by the way the girl friend was a little banged up, but is fine now.  ::) ::) ::)

What the h*ll are you going to say to that  ???  Legally, the Pilot which has contracted to insure your client is on the hook for any injuries that the girl friend might have sustained and she has 6 YEARS to bring any claims forward in Ontario (period of limitations).  The Pilot needs to know that the potential of a law suit (loss) exists.  The Pilot has the right and wants the right to begin a defense of any possible claim and to minimize any loss from it.  Your non disclosure of any knowledge of an event that puts them at liability no matter how remote supersedes any off hand privacy that you have with a client.  Read the policy and the brokerage agreements.

Offline tpl

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Re: car insurance
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2007, 06:16:53 am »
I dealt with Pilot for many years as a supplier of software, not as a customer. They used to be a company that tried to only take the cream of risks.   They are part of Aviva now and I have no idea if they have changed their strategy