Topic: CD Article: 2007 Kia Rondo

[Dana]

First off - thanks for the responses everyone

secondly - I know the M5 has an auto option however its the little things that turned my wife away from it.  The GS model is cheaper but doesn't have "cruise" available or the side curtain airbags (which my lady got a real turn on for). this leaves us with the GT model. In of itself is cheaper than the Rondo 7 seater however adding on the auto transmission and Air cond. (only an option) it then becomes more than the Rondo which are all standard features.

Don't get me wrong, I think the M5 looks very sharp, interior and exterior. However for us it does come down to $ and cents, and since we'll trade in our Spectra5 we'll probably get a better deal with Kia than Mazda.
And to "Gottarondo", thank you for the tip - I'll see if my wife would be comfortable learning to drive a stick by herself (in a parking lot of course).

[gottarondo]

Time for an update on the fuel consumption of the Rondo.  The manufacturer promises 11.8 L/100km for city driving, 7.9 L/100 km for highway driving for the model we have, the V6.  Hah!  Not quite.  The trip meter reading hovers around 15 or sometimes even higher (although calculated actual consumption, when the trip meter was reading 15.4, was 14.7). 

In pure highway driving I can actually keep consumption reading under 10L.  Include getting to and from the highway, though, and then it's as promised for CITY:  11.8.  Again, actual consumption may be lower than the read-out, but still... we don't see 7.9 on the readout unless going downhill with a tailwind.

On a happier note, I'm really enjoying driving the car.  But if I had the purchase to do again... I think I'd give serious consideration to the 4-cylinder.

[MedicineMan]

Thanks for the update on your fuel consumption, gottarondo.  Hopefully, it gets better with time.

I noticed that you're also a Vancouverite.  I was at the Kia dealership on Marine Drive in Vancouver last week.  I'm interested in buying the EX Premium (four cylinder, seven seater).  They had only one seven seater on the lot--a red one like yours, but I can't remember if it were a V6 or not.  It was sold already, but I was allowed to go inside it.  I really liked the third row seats because it seemed to have good leg room, although I forgot to check if I had sacrificed too much second row leg room in order to get it.

I test drove a EX V6 five seater.  I actually wanted to test drive a four cylinder and I got into a Rondo that the salesman said was a four cylinder, but it was only after I had finished the test drive that I noticed on the back of the vehicle "EXV6".  I guess it was an honest mistake by the salesman, or perhaps if I had paid more attention I would have noticed the mistake.  I went up a steep hill (up Victoria Drive from Marine Drive), so it would have been nice to see how a four cylinder would have handled that.  I also wanted to drive down Knight into Richmond to see how it would handle highway speeds, but it was rush hour so I didn't bother (wish I had though).

I didn't notice any obvious flaws.  The speedometer could use a darker background so the white numbers would stand out more, but that's a minor quibble.

It occurred to me later that there is no privacy cover for the cargo area in the back (when the third row is folded down).  It's not all that wise to leave things out in the open in Vancouver.  Are you concerned at all about this?  I was thinking I would make a makeshift privacy cover out of cardboard or plastic and somehow mount it over the cargo area.

[gottarondo]

Hey, MM, nice to know there was another Rondo on the road even if only for a few minutes - I have yet to see another one. 

Regarding second row legroom, there is no problem at all with the third row of seats.  Second row is like sitting in a living room; almost better than the driver's seat, I think, where I could use another inch or two, but I'm a little on the tall side. 

Bingo on the cargo cover issue though.  I wrote earlier in this thread that there are no obvious mistakes in the design of this car, but if there is room for improvement that might be item #1.  There is a miniscule space in the legroom of the third row when those seats are flipped down where you could maybe put a laptop or something, but not much, and it's tricky to get at.  I've been thinking of rigging something up too, but I think I might even write Kia and see if I can motivate them to retrofit something - yes, Vancouver being what it is. 

It would indeed be nice to hear how you feel a 4-cyl handles hills and highway speed.  I actually testdrove a 4 initially but it being my first experience in the car and unfamiliar territory in Coquitlam AND the first automatic I'd driven in years there were too many novelties at once for me to really assess the engine performance on a brief drive.  But there was a hill on the drive, and it performed to the satisfaction of my husband, who communes with engines better than he does with people.  The reviews I've seen have all been positive on the 4 too.

I did stop in to the Marine Dr. dealership just after we bought the car to see if I could get roof racks from them and they seemed very nice.

[MedicineMan]

Hey, gottarondo, thanks for the reply.

My concern with the 2nd row has to do with this:  In your estimation, if adults sat in both rows at the same time, can the 2nd row seats be slid into just the right position so that the legroom in both rows is comfortable?  Or will it be pretty uncomfortable in both rows?  I don't imagine I will have that many adults in the vehicle at once that often, so I'm probably just being a little too anal over the details.

About the lack of a cargo cover, I posted my concern in a forum at Edmunds.com and someone posted that I could buy one on eBay.  Unfortunately, the seller ships only within the USA, but the fact that a cargo cover actually exists for the Rondo is the important thing.  The seller states that it's a "100% genuine Kia part."  If that's true, I'll just ask for one or order one from the dealership (if possible) when the time comes to purchase the car.

Edit:  I just read your old post.  So you saw a cargo cover for the five seater?  That's probably what the seller above is selling.  I'm thinking that it should also fit the seven seater with the 3rd row down.  I guess I'll call them about it.

Thanks for reassuring me about the 4-cyl performance on a hill.  That verifies what most of the reviews have been saying--that there is not much difference between the 4-cyl and V6.

Not sure if this was mentioned before, but the US government's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration gives the Rondo 4 to 5 stars in its roll-over and crash tests.

[viamede]

Time for an update on the fuel consumption of the Rondo.  The manufacturer promises 11.8 L/100km for city driving, 7.9 L/100 km for highway driving for the model we have, the V6.  Hah!  Not quite.  The trip meter reading hovers around 15 or sometimes even higher (although calculated actual consumption, when the trip meter was reading 15.4, was 14.7). 

In pure highway driving I can actually keep consumption reading under 10L.  Include getting to and from the highway, though, and then it's as promised for CITY:  11.8.  Again, actual consumption may be lower than the read-out, but still... we don't see 7.9 on the readout unless going downhill with a tailwind.

On a happier note, I'm really enjoying driving the car.  But if I had the purchase to do again... I think I'd give serious consideration to the 4-cylinder.

I would be interested to hear if you mileage improves with break-in. The 2.7 L Sante Fe's are reported to have improved over time and this is basically the same engine just jazzed up a bit. The mileage reports on the Optima/Magentis 4 cyl have been poor thus far and it is the same wolrd engine as in the Rondo.

Thank you for the reports they are most helpful for those of us considering this car.

[gottarondo]

MM, the cargo cover problem is not that easy to solve, unfortunately.  The sidewall attachment point for the cover has simply been left off the 7-seater entirely, if I'm remembering correctly how it was done on the 5 seater.  It'll have to be something rigged off the posts of the headrests.  And to think I looked down my nose at the Matrix cargo cover because it wasn't retractable (sigh).

Sorry I haven't done any acrobatics with the seat yet to check legroom.

I'll check the fuel consumption again after about 2000 km, Viamede, and report in; I was reading in an older thread that that's about what can be considered broken in.  I should emphasize that the first number I reported was really almost all city driving (and it was for 1100 to 1400 km on the odo by the way); this time I've done more of a mix of driving and it's reading under 13. 

I'm glad you're finding the reports of interest - and that you can research the car.  We had a funny buying experience because there was no stock anywhere yet and pretty limited information; we couldn't see the model or the colour we wanted before ordering and certainly hadn't seen it on the road to really evaluate its size or styling in a comparative setting. 

[PJungnitsch]

Korean cars have come a long way...

That said they've had their moments. The old Ford Festiva's were Kia, and you still see them around with the survivors close to twenty years old now. I got one buddy who leaves his Lexus in the garage and drives his Festiva all over town, calls it 'the egg'. Sort of an 80's Honda Fit.

[gottarondo]

MM, I took a ride in each of the second and third rows this week and would conclude that if you limit your selection of adults to 5'10" or less (esp in the back row), they will all be reasonably comfortable :-)  When all is said and done, the car only has so much length to work with!  I will say that the Mitsubishi Outlander 3rd row seats (see concurrent thread) look like they have better headrests, but are apparently uncomfortable - which the Rondo seats are not.

[MedicineMan]

Hey gottarondo, thanks for the information.  Greatly appreciated.  Nice to know that I didn't overlook anything and the seating is indeed comfortable in the 2nd and 3rd rows.  I already knew about the lack of headroom in the 3rd row for guys like me (I'm 6'1").  It didn't bother me too much when I sat back there since I have a bad habit of slouching.  My head did touch the top-back of the vehicle when I tried to sit up straight.

Well, I finally decided I wanted to purchase the EX Premium, so I signed up with the Automobile Protection Association to use their buying service (check them out at apa.ca).  Basically, they'll give you a prenegotiated price--no haggling, no fuss, no muss.  The cost of membership is $68.90 (tax included) and you get 5 quotes with your membership.

I got a quote today on the EX Premium.  The quote is for $1000 over the dealer's invoice price, or $600 under the MSRP (the sticker price).  I also got the phone number of the broker that I'm supposed to contact.

I called the broker and it looks like I'm out of luck.  The broker said that the Rondo has been well received and supply is limited.  The dealerships have been holding on to the Rondos that they do have and selling them to whomever will buy at the sticker price.  He said that he could try to get me the Rondo at the APA's price, but it would probably be an exercise in futility.  This might depend on your location--I'm in Vancouver, for those who don't know.

So I guess I could go to a dealership myself and attempt haggling, or just wait a few months and try the APA again--but there's no guarantee even then.  It's not urgent, so I think I'll wait for now.

[gottarondo]

Hmm.  Since ours was like the first shipment into town I don't think we got a price break either, except maybe a little shaved off the dealer fees.  Well, we were in a rush because I COULD not sit in our old car any more.  Kia may regret that confidence, as there seems to be a flood of 7-seaters coming onto the market, although I think it will remain a contender based on price/value, compactness, and general quality.

[jww]

Lack of discount culture is nothing new to introduction year models. Honda tends to keep that attitude the entire life-cycle of most of their cars.

[MedicineMan]

MM, the cargo cover problem is not that easy to solve, unfortunately.  The sidewall attachment point for the cover has simply been left off the 7-seater entirely, if I'm remembering correctly how it was done on the 5 seater.  It'll have to be something rigged off the posts of the headrests.  And to think I looked down my nose at the Matrix cargo cover because it wasn't retractable (sigh).

gottarondo, I found a website by googling that sells cargo covers for the Rondo.  It's called kiapartspeople.com and the website is owned by Lee Johnson Kia in Kirkland, WA.  The covers sell for $204 US.  I posted this information in a forum at townhall-talk.edmunds.com .  Someone in the forum contacted Kia Parts People and asked if the covers would fit both the 5 and 7 seaters.  The response was yes.

I would imagine that the cargo covers at Kia Parts People are the same as the ones you saw at your dealership.  If that assumption is right, then the cargo covers that you saw should fit your 7 seater, unless the Kia Parts People are mistaken or the cars in the US are a little different from the ones in Canada.  I would suggest that you contact your dealership about it (thus also saving me the trouble of doing it ).

[gottarondo]

MM, thanks for the alert to the edmunds forum.  I've been feeling just a little... isolated, as I have STILL not seen another one on the road, and it's nice to hear other Rondo buyers talk about their impressions.  I see today there is not yet an update from the person who ordered a cargo cover for his seven seater, but your point that the US cars might be different is well taken.  I will have to do some Canadian homework on this.  Later!

[MedicineMan]

gottarondo, here's another forum for you to check out to ease your isolation , kia-forums.com

Just an update on my own adventure.  FYI, the Automobile Protection Association has a network of dealers with whom they have an agreement to sell cars at a pre-negotiated price.  Apparently, the APA doesn't have an agreement with a Kia dealer in the Lower Mainland, so I got referred to a "APA approved" auto broker instead.  As I mentioned already, the broker told me that it would be futile trying to find a dealer who would agree to the APA's price (which is around $600 under the sticker price).

I was just going to wait a few months, but then I thought, "Why don't I try another broker?"  The one I spoke to is based in Victoria, so perhaps a broker in Vancouver might know a little more about what price I can truly get here.

Someone in another forum posted a list of Vancouver auto brokers and I contacted two of them.  I chose them based on feedback (although there weren't a lot) in other forums and because both are members of the BBB. 

The first guy I contacted has a $70 fee and quoted a price that was in the same ballpark as the APA's price.  I presume it was a hard quote and he doesn't have to find a dealer to match it.  If I decide to go with him, that means I would have wasted about $70 joining the APA (at least I got the invoice price from them).

The second guy has no fee (he gets paid a finder's fee from the dealer).  He's going to get back to me after he checks his "connection."  I also asked him to check if I could get a cargo cover, if possible.

So that's where things stand.  Obviously, I've decided to go the auto broker route, because I don't want to put up with the hassle of haggling and I think there's less chance of being screwed if I have a "pro" handle it.  Then again, brokers have their own interests to look after, too, so I'm not sure how much they're really on my side.  All in all, if the fee isn't too much, I think it's worth it.

[Cord]

I got a quote today on the EX Premium.  The quote is for $1000 over the dealer's invoice price, or $600 under the MSRP (the sticker price).  I also got the phone number of the broker that I'm supposed to contact.

I called the broker and it looks like I'm out of luck.  The broker said that the Rondo has been well received and supply is limited.  The dealerships have been holding on to the Rondos that they do have and selling them to whomever will buy at the sticker price.  He said that he could try to get me the Rondo at the APA's price, but it would probably be an exercise in futility.  This might depend on your location--I'm in Vancouver, for those who don't know.

What is the point of paying the APA to provide you with a price that can't be met anywhere? If any other business pulled this it would be called an outright scam.

[MedicineMan]

What is the point of paying the APA to provide you with a price that can't be met anywhere? If any other business pulled this it would be called an outright scam.

Hmm, thanks for the comment.  It got me thinking a bit.  I should have pressed the broker to at least try to find a dealership that would match the APA price.  Having said that, APA's system doesn't make any sense to me.  If the APA doesn't have an agreement with a Kia dealership in the Lower Mainland, then what's the point of giving me a quote that is not guaranteed?  They could have made up any old quote and told me, "See if our broker can get you that."  I think I'll fire off an email to the APA about this.

Edit:  Okay, I sent a message to the APA via their online form and received an email reply.

The message that I sent was long (I even quoted you, Cord), but the gist of it was like what I said above:  what's the point of giving me a quote that is not guaranteed?  I said that I joined the APA just to use their buying service, but since their buying service failed me and I have no more use for their service, I'm requesting a full or partial refund of my membership fee.

In their reply, they said this:

[The broker] did indicate at the time we contacted him that these vehicles were difficult to obtain, but we were under the impression that [he] could get the Rondo at the price that we supplied to you.  Since this is not the case, we will be taking the Rondo off our list of available vehicles until such time as we can guarantee it's availability and price.

They gave me a full refund.  A very satisfying result, so kudos to the APA for setting things right (and thank you, Cord, for inspiring me to do something about it).  They are a consumer advocacy group, first and foremost, so I would have been very disappointed if they had not done the right thing.

The big question is, should a consumer advocacy group have a hand in the business that they are supposed to be monitoring?  (I'm presuming they are getting something out of their agreement with certain dealerships.)  At first, I thought this was a good thing--certainly, I could trust the APA's buying service.  If things go wrong, however, who watches the watchdog?  We might need a consumer advocacy group to watch the consumer advocacy group.

[MedicineMan]

I see today there is not yet an update from the person who ordered a cargo cover for his seven seater, but your point that the US cars might be different is well taken.  I will have to do some Canadian homework on this.  Later!

Bad news.  The guy got an email from the Kia Parts People stating that the cover can't be used in the 7 seater.  I had a sneaking suspicion that they were wrong about it, because of what you had said about the lack of attachment points in the 7 seater.  As it turns out, that's exactly what the Kia Parts People eventually figured out.

Oh well.  I guess it's back to figuring out how to use a large sheet of plastic or cardboard as a cover.

[Cord]

Glad you got your money back. Being from Alberta the only contact I see from the APA is what I read on this forum and from their grandstanding on W5. The feeling I get is that they seem to be well connected in the  Montreal area but that they are stretched beyond their capabilities much beyond that.

I've never had any contact with a broker in almost 20 years in the car business. Either they just don't exist in Alberta or there are very few operating at any one time. You'd think that if their business model was a successful one that these guys would become well known and that people like those on this board could recommend them by name. That doesn't seem to be the case however.

[gottarondo]

Thanks, MM, that spares me the homework even if it launches the design work.  But there are a few things ahead of that on my to-do list so I hope someone with an entrepreneurial spirit and a flair for design can get to it faster.