Topic: Drive according to conditions

[Snowman]

I feel for the families in theses situations but why must governments be held accountable for the poor judgement and lack of skill by the driving public.

Grieving dad wants canal road solution
Tows daughter's SUV to Queen's Park
Says guardrails needed on perilous road
Mar. 30, 2006. 04:46 AM
ROB FERGUSON
QUEEN'S PARK BUREAU

Two toy cars lie abandoned in the battered SUV that carried 4-year-old Taylor Grasby and his mom to their deaths in a frigid Holland Marsh canal two months ago.
Concerned that local and provincial politicians haven't made the canal road safe enough, a grieving Tim Read took the unusual step of towing the Toyota 4Runner to Queen's Park yesterday to make his point.
"There's been too many deaths and nobody wants to do anything about it," said Read, whose daughter, Cassandra Read, 32, and grandson, Taylor, were killed when their vehicle slid off the road and into the canal.
To prevent future tragedies, Read wants guardrails along Canal Road, or its closure to all but farmers.
The heart-rending stunt yesterday earned him a quick meeting and a promise of help from Transportation Minister Harinder Takhar, who visited the accident scene a day after the tragedy and offered Simcoe County concrete barriers to line the perilous road.
So far, the county has lowered the speed limit to 50 km/h from 60 km/h and posted warning signs, among other measures.
That's not enough for Read.
"One of these days a whole carload or a school bus is going to go in," warned the auto-body mechanic from Keswick. "I'm still mad ... they don't take a human life seriously."
About 2,500 vehicles use the road daily, according to a recent study, which also recommended closing the road during morning and afternoon rush hours and putting barriers along the canal side of the road. Those barriers are estimated to cost $4 million.
The Star reported recently that another two cars have gone into the canal since the accident, including one driven by a pregnant woman who was fortunate the ice kept her vehicle from sinking.
Read's only daughter and grandson are among 19 people who have died in the Holland Marsh canals in the past 52 years, with 14 vehicles sliding into the depths in the past five years.
The Canal Road, a popular shortcut from Highway 400 to Highway 11, is narrow and winding with a thin shoulder that leaves no margin for error, particularly on snowy, slippery winter nights like Feb. 4.
That's when Cassandra and son slid off the road in the Toyota as she talked on her cellphone to a friend, who alerted police.
By the time rescuers arrived, put a boat in the water, located the vehicle and smashed the back window, the pair had drowned.
Read said he felt "a little bit better" after the meeting with Takhar, but noted there are no solutions yet.
There are, however, plans for the ministry and local officials to hold a public information session in the Holland Marsh area in May to discuss how best to make Canal Road safer, including the possibility of closing the road.
There is also a police crackdown on speeders.
A longer-term solution, which has already been studied widely, is dredging an $18 million irrigation canal and separating it from the roadway with a much wider swath of earth, said local MPP Julia Munro of York North.
Read said money shouldn't be an obstacle to solutions because the county received $8 million in last week's budget for improved transportation infrastructure.

[tpl]

On the other hand... it IS the job of the gov to employ civil engineers to make road design reasonably safe.

That particiluar driver was driving along an icy road  talking on the cell phone at the time (before the accident)  in an intrinsically unstable vehicle with a high centre of gravity, so I do agree with you quite a lot

[Snowman]

There are thousands of km’s of roads in this province that are funded by the government that are not engineered or constructed for public use. Logging, farming, and mine access roads are used by people who are looking for a short cut to where they are going. I know a logging road that would save me 1 ½ hours in driving out of 7 hours to my home town. Do I use it? No. The risk to my family far outweighs the time it would save. We need to stop engineering to the lowest common denominator and start making people accountable for their actions.

I would just go place a sign that states “use at your own risk” and get on with life.

[quadzilla]

   I'm sick and tired of people blaming others for their actions.  If this road was that unsafe every car would be flying off the road, not just the few that drove outside of their ability and conditions.  Plus talking on the phone while driving in an ICE STORM just shows there are more to this.  I feel for the families but they have to see what really caused the accident.

Remember, it isn't the car that loses control, it the driver.

[Serniter]

I understand the agony of the father, but being careless with your child in the vehicle is not acceptable either. Sadly, the importance of safe driving is emphasized only when such accidents occur. I routinely see people being careless on the road, but how can discipline be implemented?

[UmroAyyar]

However sad the incident was, the responsibility to drive according to conditions lies with the driver specially in a weather like that. I remember reading in Toronto Star after the incident that the driver's mother told her to turn off the cell phone, put the truck in 4 wheel drive and focus on driving. The lady started talking to her friend after that.

Its sad, but nobody else is responsible.

[DriverJeff]

I agree guys.  As you've said, I feel for the family's loss, but you can bet your ass that if guardrails had already been in place and the 4Runner had rolled over top of them, the old guy would be protesting that they were inadequate guardrails and the gov't is responsible for them too.  Like Quad said, if it were truly a dangerous spot, everyone would be careening off the road there.

[accordingly]

A sad incident. This story is about a distraught father who needs somewhere to focus his anger...in this case, it is the 'failure' of the government to protect his daughter. Hopefully, he will find some peace, in time.

It is sometimes the case that tragedy must occur before action takes place. Given the reported amount of traffic on this road, it would be prudent for the municipality to conduct a traffic study to determine whether the road meets safety standards. Given the increase in population in this area, it would not be surprising if some of the roads are no longer able to accommodate traffic.

Drowning with your son in your own vehicle? What a terrible way to die...can't imagine the nightmares for her family. 

[UmroAyyar]

Accordingly, apparently there are proposals to address the issues specifically for that road. Like moving the canal or the road, still not stamped.

[wildk9]

The pain of losing a child and a spouse is devastating. I don't blame the dad for blaming the gov't and the road. It's far easier than blaming his dead wife for the loss of his child, whether it was her fault or not.  I think she was careless and foolish but as so many of us, she was probably more confident than her skill and was lead into a false sense of security by the advertising of her vehicle. She didn't deserve to pay for that ignorance with her life and the life of her child. Her husband certainly didn't. 

The only way to make people more disciplined is to make it law and force people into it. We made seat belts mandatory, we put air bags in cars and ABS brakes and stability control is quickly becoming standard but we need to ban cell phones in cars, unless a person is pulled over or uses a hands free (and I'm not all that thrilled about hands free either). Should the gov't make a change? Yes but it isn't to the roadway.

[quadzilla]

Quote are from the article.

“About 2,500 vehicles use the road daily”

That is quite the number of cars per day so why are we not hearing about accidents every day on this road.

“The Canal Road, a popular shortcut from Highway 400 to Highway 11, is narrow and winding with a thin shoulder that leaves no margin for error, particularly on snowy, slippery winter nights”

“So far, the county has lowered the speed limit to 50 km/h from 60 km/h and posted warning signs, among other measures.”

Where is this road?  I know it goes from the 400 to 11 but where?  Since it is hard to judge without seeing it I want to see how “narrow and winding” this road is. 

Even at 60kph (we have city streets that are faster than this) I can’t see (without seeing it of course) how dangerous this road can be.  I’ve driven up and down mountain road where one mistake is 2000+ feet of free falling and I don’t call those roads unsafe.

Edit:

Does anybody remember when there was that huge accident on the 402 close to Sarnia in heavy fog?  Right after that all of the “experts” starting saying that the highway was unsafe and needed to be upgraded plus have signs come on when the visibility (fog?) was low. 

When I look out my windscreen and notice that I can’t see as far anymore that is the first clue to slow down.  There were a few reasons that accident happened, like speed and then a domino effect but it wasn’t the highway that was the problem.

[UmroAyyar]

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=east+gwillimbury,+ontario&ll=44.093195,-79.57921&spn=0.044014,0.10849

Canal Road.

[quadzilla]

Thanks.

[safristi]

EVERY LIFE is Precious....I hear she took out 4,000 White Asparagus.......Holland Landing....

[random006]

On balance, I think Snowy is right:  Personal accountability for one's driving behaviour must always be examined in these incidents.

BUT if a number of accidents have already happened on that stretch of road then a different approach might be also be needed.  I would not spend $4 million but I would imagine a few simple guard rails at select spots on the road would do it.

Certainly that is what I've seen in PEI.  They have some very twisty, narrow and hilly roads with sharp turns and descents, causing severe blind spots going into them.

[safristi]

WHAT HAPPENED TO DRIVING!!!!!!!!

[haris]

IIRC the video and pictures of Canal road it's narrow and pretty much right on the water.
14 cars in the ditch in the last five years, with 2500 vehicles daily is something like 0.003%.
A single death is one too many, but if I decide to drive on ice covered road while talking on the phone and I end up in the ditch I have only myself to blame.
As much as it's tragic, in some ways it's natural selection. Yes, that sounds cruel, but I'm getting really sick of people going through their lives without thinking of consenquences that will follow their actions.
The most interesting thing to me is that the father wants Canal road "fixed" and doesn't seem to see anything wrong with phone use while driving. Same thing with the friend that was on the phone. From Toronto Star article:

Outside the funeral home, Pittman insisted that the fact Read was on the phone at the time of the accident had nothing to do with why the Toyota 4Runner hurtled down the snowy embankment and plunged into about 10 metres of water.

“If it wasn’t for the cellphone, I would never have known that she had gone in that canal,” said Pittman, who frantically called 911 moments after hearing her friend’s anguished pleas for help. Police initially said it was Read herself who called 911.

“I just want to get it clear that cellphones, it wasn’t the issue,” Pittman said.

“It’s the road, and I want it closed.”

[wildk9]

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=east+gwillimbury,+ontario&ll=44.093195,-79.57921&spn=0.044014,0.10849

Canal Road.

Doesn't look too bad but I'm used to diving in the mountains. Highway 1, just before Golden BC is twisty with little room to maneuver plus nets on the one side to catch falling rocks and a drop on the other that you would not survive. I manage.

[Snowman]

I drove it once in the summer to by-pass an accident on the 400 when I was driving back from Fergus on Highway 9. It is narrow and has some sharp corners near the 400. The road was never designed for heavy traffic and should only be available for local traffic involved in the farming community.

[UmroAyyar]

Looking at the map, Holland St is a better and safe link between the two highways. Some suggestions included closing the access to Hwy 400 from Canal Rd.