Topic: Total Writeoff; What should I get?

[Flashback1981]

Well, I was in an accident the other week, and my 2003 Dodge SX 2.0 was totalled (No fault on my part, she ran a stop sign).

Anywho, my insurance company said my "write off alue" is just over $11,000.

I was just over 44,000KM, drove it for a year, and bought it used on the lot. 

Does this payout quote soun right to you?  Does anyone know where I can find a Blankbook value, or how to get an independant appraisal?


Thanks.

[ArticSteve]

What model and options?  What province?

You are looking for the retail price not the wholesale.  Check dealers and autotrader on line.  You are entitled to dealer retail plus all taxes.  For a base model $11K is OK but you need sales tax(s) on that number.

[Flashback1981]

Base Model, no options. 

I'm in BC

Do you have any suggestions for sites where I can get dealer retail?

[ArticSteve]

Others will be along that live in BC that know the market better and how your government issurance works but you can phone up Chyrsler dealers or go on line.  Don't you have an autotrader of some sort?

I think 11K is reasonable for a base unit but try and get the PST/GST inaddition to that.

[jbbadboy]

If you are not sure whether you are getting a fair settlement the best thing you can do is provide proof that a similarly equipped vehicle to yours with close to the same mileage is being sold for higher.

Check the newspaper ads, any autos-for-sale magazines, maybe trader.ca to show your adjuster that you can't replace your vehicle with a similar one for what you are being offered.

Just show them a few examples (the more the better).

Unfortunately I myself don't know what a fair value for your car would be.

[Flashback1981]

I did get a GST voucher for $750, if I buy a vehicle form the same dealership.

I guess this might be off topic, but since the accident was 100% her fault (as ruled by ICBC), can I have her pay the difference of what I owe the dealer to pay off the total value of the vehicle?

[ArticSteve]

I guess this might be off topic, but since the accident was 100% her fault (as ruled by ICBC), can I have her pay the difference of what I owe the dealer to pay off the total value of the vehicle?

NO

As for getting estimates, get them from a Chrysler dealer as they will be the most expensive.  Don't mention anything about a GST voucher whatever that is.  To be clear you want replacement from a Chrysler dealer plus both taxes.

Naturally, I'd look around for other used brands and I would not buy from a DEALER.

[ovr50]

I am in BC but cannot tell what your car is (was) worth? As jdbad says above, do some research of the AutoTrader, classified ads and dealer lots to try to find cars similar to yours. If you can show ICBC why their value is too low, they may raise it. I have heard of that occurring.

As to getting the other driver to pay the difference to what you owe - forget it, no one cares what you owe. The real value of the car is all that matters to insurance and so it should be.

[avtoller]

You might want to try this link to get some pricing ideas:

http://buysell.com/vehiclesection.asp?id=1

[davidm]

Did you have the replacement value insurance?  If not, you get the value of the used car, not the cost to replace it with a new one.

Without replacement value insurance, you get to haggle with ICBC (I have done it successfully and know of others as well) over the used value of the car.  Blackbook can be found off of www.toyota.ca but that's not very useful as they are wholesale values.  ICBC agents have the "Gold Book" which they use to appraise vehicles at retail - go to a random agent and see if they will tell you the Goldbook value range on the vehicle.  Check out www.buysell.com as well as the Auto Trader and Vancouver Sun.  If there was anything "special" about your car - low mileage, add ons, etc. - that ICBC won't have thought about use it to negotiate the cheque upwards.  The adjuster has to get you to accept the cheque to get the file off his/her desk, so you have some ability to be stubborn and negotiate up.

The GST voucher can be used at any dealership against the GST paid on a car (new or used) purchased from that dealership.  I think they usually have something like a 30 day expiry though.  Make sure the cheque you get from ICBC is for the agreed upon value of the car PLUS the 7% PST on that value.

Good luck and happy hunting.

[ovr50]

I don't think you can get replacement insurance with ICBC on vehicles over 3 years old??

[davidm]

I don't think you can get replacement insurance with ICBC on vehicles over 3 years old??

I wasn't sure the cutoff.

[The Mighty Duck]

It is possible to negotiate with ICBC...  a buddy of mine's CRX got written off and they offer him ~$800 iirc.  It was a highly modified car (turboed, among other things), and I think in the end he got $1500 for it.  Best of luck!

[triniexr]

BUY MY CAR!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.cartalkcanada.com/forum/index.php/topic,41509.0.html

[paulk]

I guess this might be off topic, but since the accident was 100% her fault (as ruled by ICBC), can I have her pay the difference of what I owe the dealer to pay off the total value of the vehicle?

You can take her to small claims court for the difference.  You don't need a lawyer to do this.  If the difference owing is more than $1000, I'd say it's worthwhile.

[Flashback1981]

I've dealt with small claims before, but I'm wondering if I should try and settle before I take any steps like lawyers or court.

And the differece is about $4000

[ArticSteve]

You can't sue her.  You would need to sue ICBC because in effect they represent her and you.

You talk about "$4000"?  I assume that is the difference you paid originally and what ICBC is offering you.  Is that difference with financing costs?  Redardless, you drove it for more than a year and that 4k will be deemed depreciation.

You have zero legal claim.  Get quotes from dealers on the most overpriced Neons of same year and similar model and present that to ICBC and move on.

If you wanted to hedge your short fall on the car you should have claimed a sore neck and headaches.

[paulk]

Because she was at fault, you can absolutely sue her to recover financial damages.  Not just the $4000 you'll still owe on the car, but other expenses as well (transportation, the replacement cost of the clothes you were wearing, etc.).  It's a myth that because ICBC exists you can't sue.  If you sign a settlement agreement with an ICBC adjuster, then things get more complicated.

The BC bar association has a few pages of information on this:
http://www.cba.org/BC/public_media/automobiles/185.aspx
http://www.cba.org/BC/public_media/automobiles/188.aspx

$4000 is a decent chunk of change.  You may want to talk to a lawyer to get an opinion on what you should do.

[ArticSteve]

Because she was at fault, you can absolutely sue her to recover financial damages.  Not just the $4000 you'll still owe on the car, but other expenses as well (transportation, the replacement cost of the clothes you were wearing, etc.).

I suggest you read those links again.  The lady was insured by ICBC.  They represent her and because it's no fault they represent him as well.  If the poster has a beef with her over damages then he must sue ICBC first.  Only if his damages exceeded her coverage (200K minimum) then could the poster sue her personally.  In this case the lady is out of it.  Any beef is between him and ICBC.  It is crystal clear.

I read what ICBC has offered him and it is pretty close to retail.  I'm sure he can work it up another 1K, but he isn't going to collect on depreciation from when he bought it.

Only on rare occasions does an owner come out ahead of the game when hit by an at fault driver.  For example, I currently have a one month old 06 Civic DXG under a no fault system.  If it was wrecked I'd get not a new one, but a depreciated value and not enough to replace it.  Is that fair? NO.  The system is not fair.  However, I for another 30 bucks a year have the waiver of depreciation.  If the car were to get wrecked in the 23rd month I get full price plus all taxes so I'm a big winner.  If my Saab got wrecked by a third party I'd get about $4000. plus 15% in lieu of taxes.  That would be just fine with me as I have less in it than that and this is the 4th winter. If my Porsche got wrecked I'd lose big.

Flashback is hardly alone.  Most owners come out losers particularly people with mint cars.  The courts have dealt with this issue and they have decided that owners get market value period.  They don't car about the small details.  They don't make defendants pay for depreciation or prior financing costs that occurred prior to the loss.

[paulk]

I suggest you read those links again.  The lady was insured by ICBC.  They represent her and because it's no fault they represent him as well.  If the poster has a beef with her over damages then he must sue ICBC first.  Only if his damages exceeded her coverage (200K minimum) then could the poster sue her personally.  In this case the lady is out of it.  Any beef is between him and ICBC.  It is crystal clear.

Things may be different in Ontario, but in BC what you're saying is not accurate.  ICBC is only "no fault" for "accident benefits" (funeral costs, medical expenses, income replacement).  It is not no fault for "damages" (everything else).

As adjustors, ICBC represents both parties.  In court, ICBC will represent (or pay for representation for) the person who caused the accident, but they do not represent the person suing.

I read what ICBC has offered him and it is pretty close to retail.  I'm sure he can work it up another 1K, but he isn't going to collect on depreciation from when he bought it.

He's not trying to collect on depreciation.  He'd be unsuccessful on that, since the negligent driver didn't cause the depreciation.  He is trying to collect the money he still owes on the car, since he'll have to buy another vehicle.  Otherwise he'll be making payments on two vehicles, one which no longer exists.  That situation was caused by the negligent driver.  You may be right though that the courts may look at this the other way, and he may not be entitled to collect the money he still owes.  He should probably talk to a lawyer.