Topic: Difference between the Performance Winter tires vs Studless Winter tires

[redsun_ty]

Hi,

Anyone know the difference between Performance Winter tires vs Studless Winter tires? or there are no difference

[footlong58]

There are basically 2 types of winter tires nowadays...  The "performance" winter tires tend to come in more "modern" sizes, and have H and V speed ratings to accomodate the handling and ride capabilities of todays cars...  The traditional winter tires are generally Q rated, and while they offer exceptional snow and ice traction, most times superior to the performance winter tires, they lack in handling, noise, life, etc...

[morty]

Footlong does a good job of explaining. However, I wouldnt use traditional to describe any of the winter tires now available. Winter tire technology has come a long way and there is nothing tradional about them. You basically have the R, Q and T rated winters that offer the best deep snow and ice capability. The tread is softer and extremely flexible and you do often see a more aggressive tread. Helps with deep snow and ice. With the softer tread the tires do better in ice, but wear much quicker in dry pavement and warmer conditions +5 and above. For those of us who live in more Urban areas of the Country... we dont drive in ice and snow through the whole winter. We get winter storms that come and go and the rest of the time we are driving on wet and dry pavement. We commute on freeways and drive high-speed when doing so. In this scenario the R, Q and T-rated tires can seem soft and unstable and wear rather quickly. This is where the H and V-Rated winters are great. They offer a firmer casing and tread design. The still offer very good snow and ice performance, but with the stiffer sidewall and tread offer better stability and tread life. Although not exactly like stock all-season/summer, they drive much more similarly than the softer R, Q and T-rated tires.

If you live in an urban area and do a lot of commuting or own a heavy sedan or performance vehicle the H and V-Rated would be a better choice. If you live in a rural area or are an avid skiier that only cares about getting to the mountain or down the unplowed alley way...then the R, Q and T-rated are the way to go....

[tc.xmen]

Footlong does a good job of explaining. However, I wouldnt use traditional to describe any of the winter tires now available. Winter tire technology has come a long way and there is nothing tradional about them. You basically have the R, Q and T rated winters that offer the best deep snow and ice capability. The tread is softer and extremely flexible and you do often see a more aggressive tread. Helps with deep snow and ice. With the softer tread the tires do better in ice, but wear much quicker in dry pavement and warmer conditions +5 and above. For those of us who live in more Urban areas of the Country... we dont drive in ice and snow through the whole winter. We get winter storms that come and go and the rest of the time we are driving on wet and dry pavement. We commute on freeways and drive high-speed when doing so. In this scenario the R, Q and T-rated tires can seem soft and unstable and wear rather quickly. This is where the H and V-Rated winters are great. They offer a firmer casing and tread design. The still offer very good snow and ice performance, but with the stiffer sidewall and tread offer better stability and tread life. Although not exactly like stock all-season/summer, they drive much more similarly than the softer R, Q and T-rated tires.

If you live in an urban area and do a lot of commuting or own a heavy sedan or performance vehicle the H and V-Rated would be a better choice. If you live in a rural area or are an avid skiier that only cares about getting to the mountain or down the unplowed alley way...then the R, Q and T-rated are the way to go....

Morty,
As always a very detailed explanation to a, what everyone thinks, simple question.
Been a long time lurker and was about to post a similar question because I'm looking for winter tires for my '99 Accord.

So far my choices are:

Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2
Nokian Hakka 2
Pirelli 210 Sottozero
Kumho  KW17 or KW19 - (1 of Morty's favourite's)

Any comments would be appreciated.

I know that there are numerous discussions about these tires, and like most people I want a quality tire for a reasonable price.
I also want to hopefully get 4 winters out of the tires. And I know there isn't ONE tire that does it all. 
The winter conditions in the GTA are usually wet/dry pavement for most of the winter and then a couple of weeks of snow/slush/ice.
Right now I drve on H-rated all season tires and there are too many choices for winter tires. I prefer to stay with a H-rated or T-rated winter tire.

Thanks and  I always enjoy this forum and everyone's feedback.
Cheers!!

[Craig]

Nokian or Pirelli would be your best bets, or Kumho if you want the best bang/buck.  But then, you probably knew that.

Strike the Pilot Alpin off your list.

[morty]

If you are looking for good value the KW17 wins without question. Also consider the Hankook W300 for the GTA. The W300 has been offering better wear with comparable winter performance. Contrary to chansen...Michelin does make great product and both the PA2 and X-Ice have gotten great reviews. Just a question of application. Apparently someone has had a bad experience, but I am sure there is someone out there who can speak of a bad experience with every brand of tire.

[msian]

I know a lot of people had bad experience with the Pilot Alpin.
Works great when the road conditions are nice but not in your typical wintery slippery conditions!
Like a really-really-really-good all-season tire perhaps?

Now, has the PA2 improved a lot to do a better job in wintery conditions? I don't have any personal experience with the PA2 but I do know that the Pirelli 210 is much better than the old Pilot Alpin in the snow.

[Craig]

My bad, Morty.  The Pilot Alpins have indeed been redesigned since I last drove on them.

Old Pilot Alpin:


New PA2:


I trust Michelin got it right this time, because my last memory of them is watching my father struggle to get his Arctic Alpin-shod Windstar 1/4 the way up our driveway, and get so frustrated when Pirellis got my Mystique to the top in one attempt, that he traded for Pilot Alpins the next week with only slightly better results.  He got out of the lease early, and into an Expedition just to climb that driveway as well as my little Mystique (and soon, our new Matrix on Nokians).  His tire guy once had him convinced tham Michelin made the best winter tires.  He now runs Nokians on the new 4Runner.

Next time there's a big snowfall in Collingwood, everyone come over to our place and try the Driveway of Doom.  Looks innocent and it's nice and wide for safety, but it's steeper than it looks, and even when plowed it quickly separates the good snow tires from the bad.

And yeah, I know there's more to a winter tire than snow-climbing ability, but don't tell that to a skier.

[tc.xmen]

If you are looking for good value the KW17 wins without question. Also consider the Hankook W300 for the GTA. The W300 has been offering better wear with comparable winter performance. Contrary to chansen...Michelin does make great product and both the PA2 and X-Ice have gotten great reviews. Just a question of application. Apparently someone has had a bad experience, but I am sure there is someone out there who can speak of a bad experience with every brand of tire.

Morty,

Decided on the Hankook W300 Ice Bear.  Funny thing is I called a couple of tire shops and they said that they didn't manufacture my tire size,  195 R65 15(??) 91H.
But, Tiretrend's website shows that you have them in stock.  Has this size been phased out??

As you mentioned in another thread the Kuhmo KW17 hs been selling like hotcakes and supply is dwindling.  Trying my best to track down the KW17.

[tc.xmen]

Bump.

Morty,  Any comments to my last post?? 
Or am I SOL in tracking down the Hankook W300 Ice Bear in the GTA.

Anyone have suggestions?

[morty]

Not discontinued as far as I am aware. This is the first season we ordered the W300 in this size because we had so many requests last year. I guess if you cant get them "they are discontinued". We have them in stock and ready to ship.

195/65/15 Hankook W300 - http://www.tiretrends.com/Winter-Tires-Packages.php?tireID=396

[barrie1]

The Nov edition of World of Wheels which is a Canadian auto magazine has the best winter tire write-up I have ever seen. They discuss many different brands and the chemical makeup of just about all of them. The reasons why certain tires last longer then others and whose tire will give you better traction in the deep white stuff. Very well written. 

[tpl]

No mention of the HR rated Blizzak LM 22 or LM25?  Nor the Yoko AVS 901 Winter?   I have had both and they work well enough in TO weather both for rapid transit in dry roads and in deep snow and ice laneways. 

[tc.xmen]

Thanks Morty.   

As always great insight and info.

Cheers!!

[redsun_ty]

The Nov edition of World of Wheels which is a Canadian auto magazine has the best winter tire write-up I have ever seen. They discuss many different brands and the chemical makeup of just about all of them. The reasons why certain tires last longer then others and whose tire will give you better traction in the deep white stuff. Very well written. 

can u post the article here if u can??

[scarberian]

Last fall I bought 16" Michelin Pilot Alpin 2 and steel rims for my 2003 Altima SE that came with 17 wheels and H rated Bridgestones".
The PA2 are fine for around the GTA, and on a trip up north in the deep stuff was perfectly fine.  The Altima has a powerful v6 but I've never been unable to get up a steep snow clogged motel driveway in Haliburton.
The H rated PA2 lets the car handle excellently in slush and dry with zero squirm.

For my driving, it works for me.

[msian]

Last fall I bought 16" Michelin Pilot Alpin 2 and steel rims for my 2003 Altima SE that came with 17 wheels and H rated Bridgestones".
The PA2 are fine for around the GTA, and on a trip up north in the deep stuff was perfectly fine.  The Altima has a powerful v6 but I've never been unable to get up a steep snow clogged motel driveway in Haliburton.
The H rated PA2 lets the car handle excellently in slush and dry with zero squirm.

For my driving, it works for me.

Great to hear that the PA2 could indeed be an improvement over the first generation Pilot Alpin...I guess we sort of expected that.