Author Topic: MazdaSpeed6 en route...  (Read 11458 times)

turbodiesel

  • Guest
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2005, 01:53:48 pm »
Please remind the uninformed (me) what type of AWD system this car will have?
Thanks!

FWD-based AWD... so normally it's 100% FWD 'til something happens XDDDD

anyways this time Mazdaspeed is doing the RIGHT THANG! ^^

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2005, 02:05:02 pm »
Please remind the uninformed (me) what type of AWD system this car will have?
Thanks!

FWD-based AWD... so normally it's 100% FWD 'til something happens XDDDD

anyways this time Mazdaspeed is doing the RIGHT THANG! ^^

This could be the show stopper for me as Mazda does not have a "real" AWD system.The MPS6 has a Active Torque Split All-Wheel-Drive System that uses an electro-mechanical clutch pack with a water-cooled "power take-off unit" to feed up to 50 percent of torque to the rear wheels. The system uses sensors that measure g-forces, yaw, throttle position, wheel speed and steering position to apportion torque. It features three automatic modes, which are not manually selectable: Normal, Sport and Snow. Under normal driving conditions, 100 percent of engine output is fed through the front axles. Start making lateral demands and the Sport mode instructs a three-piece rear-drive shaft to twist into a Tochigi-Fuji manufactured rear limited-slip differential (the same type found in the RX-8). The sport mode is smart enough to hold the 50/50 split through the exit of a corner to aid in rotation. The front differential is open. In Snow mode, the clutch pack locks torque split at 50/50

mark

  • Guest
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2005, 02:15:32 pm »
Please remind the uninformed (me) what type of AWD system this car will have?
Thanks!

FWD-based AWD... so normally it's 100% FWD 'til something happens XDDDD

anyways this time Mazdaspeed is doing the RIGHT THANG! ^^

This could be the show stopper for me as Mazda does not have a "real" AWD system.The MPS6 has a Active Torque Split All-Wheel-Drive System that uses an electro-mechanical clutch pack with a water-cooled "power take-off unit" to feed up to 50 percent of torque to the rear wheels. The system uses sensors that measure g-forces, yaw, throttle position, wheel speed and steering position to apportion torque. It features three automatic modes, which are not manually selectable: Normal, Sport and Snow. Under normal driving conditions, 100 percent of engine output is fed through the front axles. Start making lateral demands and the Sport mode instructs a three-piece rear-drive shaft to twist into a Tochigi-Fuji manufactured rear limited-slip differential (the same type found in the RX-8). The sport mode is smart enough to hold the 50/50 split through the exit of a corner to aid in rotation. The front differential is open. In Snow mode, the clutch pack locks torque split at 50/50

So, in summary - no judgements til its driven, in a variety of conditions.   

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2005, 02:21:53 pm »
Please remind the uninformed (me) what type of AWD system this car will have?
Thanks!

FWD-based AWD... so normally it's 100% FWD 'til something happens XDDDD

anyways this time Mazdaspeed is doing the RIGHT THANG! ^^

This could be the show stopper for me as Mazda does not have a "real" AWD system.The MPS6 has a Active Torque Split All-Wheel-Drive System that uses an electro-mechanical clutch pack with a water-cooled "power take-off unit" to feed up to 50 percent of torque to the rear wheels. The system uses sensors that measure g-forces, yaw, throttle position, wheel speed and steering position to apportion torque. It features three automatic modes, which are not manually selectable: Normal, Sport and Snow. Under normal driving conditions, 100 percent of engine output is fed through the front axles. Start making lateral demands and the Sport mode instructs a three-piece rear-drive shaft to twist into a Tochigi-Fuji manufactured rear limited-slip differential (the same type found in the RX-8). The sport mode is smart enough to hold the 50/50 split through the exit of a corner to aid in rotation. The front differential is open. In Snow mode, the clutch pack locks torque split at 50/50

So, in summary - no judgements til its driven, in a variety of conditions.   

I will do my absolute best to challenge the MPS6’s abilities on dry pavement on Saturday. That is when I perform 99% of my spirited driving adventures. I have no doubt that the car will handle adequately in adverse conditions when one should be driving more conservative in the first place.


Offline DriverJeff

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 12681
  • Carma: +181/-628
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Echo Bay Media
  • Cars: Whatever I'm assigned for the week + '13 Lexus GX460, '86 Toyota MR2, '18 Kawasaki Z900RS SE, 2021 Jeep Wrangler (GF's)
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2005, 05:44:19 pm »
Oooh!!  Can't wait to hear all about it, Snowy!  I think the local Mazda dealers are sick of me coming by and nosing around for MX5s and RX8s.  :)
The past:00 BMW M Rdstr, 19 Jetta, 15 Ducati Scrambler, 09 Triumph Bonneville, 98 Boxster, 17 Kawi Z900, 05 LS 430, 99 LS 400, 17 Subaru STI, 14 Triumph STR, 15 WRX, 09 Ducati Monster 1100,  08 335i, 06 Suzuki SV650S, 06 330i, 06 MX-5, 04 Audi A4, 03 Suzuki SV650S, 98 328i, 93 Civic Si, 85 Corolla

bluesti

  • Guest
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2005, 08:48:15 am »
Add me to the list of people anxiously awaiting your review snowman.

It will be interesting to see how it compares to your modded rex in terms of driving pleasure and performance.

Let 'er rip!!!!  ;D

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2005, 08:56:58 am »
I even stopped by last night on the way back form a meeting for another look. The guys at the dealer think I’m losing it. Wiffy wants me to get a script for valium as my behavior has been unacceptable in the last few days. I can’t help it…I was born this way.

I will call later to set up a time. I would like first thing in the morning as the traffic will be light and the Police are still dazed and confused at the station.

mark

  • Guest
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2005, 09:50:50 am »
Snowy, I expect the car will not disappoint you in absolute terms, but really, in relative terms, will it be on par with Rut Ro?  Close perhaps, but except for a different body style, what will you really be getting?  Anything short of an STI or a Z06 is bound to be a bit of a letdown.  Perhaps it will be a little more civilized (less peaky?) while still offering 90% of the performance.

It will be interesting to hear about it.

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2005, 09:58:20 am »
Snowy, I expect the car will not disappoint you in absolute terms, but really, in relative terms, will it be on par with Rut Ro?  Close perhaps, but except for a different body style, what will you really be getting?  Anything short of an STI or a Z06 is bound to be a bit of a letdown.  Perhaps it will be a little more civilized (less peaky?) while still offering 90% of the performance.

It will be interesting to hear about it.

Since Wiffy could not handle Rut Ro in her one week testing session because of the sudden abrupt jumps to light speed  ;D I was thinking this could be a nice replacement for the Highlander. 8)
This way I get to keep Rutty and use him as a daily driver and look at getting a used 2004 S2000 in the spring of 2007. That is the current LRP. :)

Offline ovr50

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 18453
  • Carma: +27/-126
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #49 on: November 04, 2005, 10:15:09 am »
Hate to be overly practical, Snowy, but would RutRo and a MS6 give you enough carrying capacity in ppl/cargo terms?  ??? :-\
2022 Mazda CX-5 Signature Turbo in Snowflake White Pearl
and
2012 Toyota Camry SE V6 in Alpine White

Offline ArticSteve

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 27858
  • Carma: +310/-6813
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Hobby Car: 15 Mustang Vert, V6, manual, 3.55 lsd; 2024 MDX Aspec; 2022 F150 TREMOR lifted
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2005, 10:28:45 am »
"Turbo Power and Torque

The heart of any car is its engine. While the Mazdaspeed6's is a 2.3 litre twin-cam 16-valve balance-shaft-equipped four-cylinder, just like the Mazda6, "only the nuts and bolts are the same," said Kenichiro Saruwatari, assistant manager of powertrain development.

The block and heads are cast from a different aluminium alloy, the crankshaft and connecting rods are steel rather than cast iron and the pistons now have full-floating wrist pins.

But the two biggest differences are direct injection of gasoline into the combustion chamber instead of into the ports upstream of the valves, and the addition of a Hitachi intercooled turbocharger.

The direct injection generates a bunch of advantages, and enables even more. The cooling effect of the spray of fuel raises the knock threshold, which allows tuning for greater torque at low speeds; and a high-for-a-turbo compression ratio of 9.5:1, to the benefit of fuel efficiency, throttle response and emissions.

Thus, the turbo doesn't have to work as hard as it might otherwise need to, so a smaller, faster-spooling, simpler, single-scroll unit can be used to boost the mid-range, with minimal turbo lag.

North American-spec engines will generate a substantial 274 horsepower at 5500 rpm, and a very flat torque curve which peaks at 280 lb-ft at 3000 rpm, but which is virtually flat at that level from 2000 to 5500 rpm. Mazda promises a 0 - 100 km/h sprint time of 6.6 seconds; quicker than a 2.0 litre Subaru Legacy Turbo or a BMW 330i, two cars Mazda hopes customers will perceive as direct competitors.

A new six-speed manual transmission from Aisin is the only gear-swapping system available. It is extremely compact and lightweight, yet has been engineered both for short shift stroke and light effort. Contrary to typical sporty car practice, it is a wide-ratio box, to take advantage of that broad torque band."

« Last Edit: November 04, 2005, 10:31:57 am by articsteve »

captain_ron

  • Guest
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2005, 10:51:43 am »
this car is extremely slow 0-60! (relatively speaking).  A 6spd Altima SE-R (260hp) does 0-60 in 5.9 seconds, 14hp less, no AWD (worse launch), bigger car, and it still beats the MazdaSpeed6 by .7 seconds?

bassix

  • Guest
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2005, 11:16:19 am »
Mazda's head of research and development Joseph Bakaj says the decision not to develop a fixed, full-time AWD system, like Subaru's, was due to the fuel-consumption penalty from friction in a constant AWD system.
Fuel consumption?? Yeah right... pull the other leg. I've owned and driven both an Eagle Talon AWD and a Subaru Legacy GT AWD, and never once complained about fuel consumption! This from companies that keep putting larger and larger engines in their cars... using 200+ HP figures to sell them and then at the last minute say they are concerned about fuel economy?

Also, thanks for putting a much more complex/fragile system in the drivetrain of the car I want to buy! I guess I am the minority, in that if I buy a performance car, I want to drive it hard to get the most bang for my buck, and expect the engineers to realize that and put tough, reliable technology into it, and not use it as a test-bed for complex and fragile systems. No surprise that Honda, Toyota and Mazda are not involved in Rally Motorsports.

Now on the other hand, I have always been a fan of Mazda, and believe they offer the most for the money when compared to Honda and Toyota. They are more focussed on building real-world PERFORMANCE/economy cars than anyone else in that market segment. For just over $20K I would not hesitate to buy a Mazda3 Sport GT! I'm just tired of half-assed excuses when it comes to AWD. Subaru has the most stable, reliable system in production (maybe Audi as well). If I sold you a sandwich without anything between the bread, and told you I did that in order to cut down on the calories it contains, would you believe me?
« Last Edit: November 04, 2005, 11:18:50 am by bassix »

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13396
  • Carma: +8/-54
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2001 VW Golf TDI 3Dr 5MT, 2007 VW Golf GTI 6MT, 2008 Saturn Astra XR 5Dr 4AT, 2010 VW Golf Wagon TDI 6MT, 2014 Chevrolet Orlando 2LT
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2005, 11:17:33 am »
I think MS6 is a tad heavy and it's larger than Rut-Ro. Won't handle as good.

But pricing is alright considering it has AWD, and it has more room than the LGT I believe, so it's not such a bad option so long as you're not looking for the most hard-core option out there. LGT is still hard to beat tho, although outwardly this has more attitude.
AQUAMAN64 also posts on DriverBlogs.com!

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2005, 11:20:45 am »
Hate to be overly practical, Snowy, but would RutRo and a MS6 give you enough carrying capacity in ppl/cargo terms?  ??? :-\

Wiffy and I have decided to rent a Highlander from Tilden for the 4 or 5 times we actually need the capacity. An AWD car is on the top of her list for under $40k. The MPS6 meets the criteria very nicely. 8) ;D

Offline DriverJeff

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 12681
  • Carma: +181/-628
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Echo Bay Media
  • Cars: Whatever I'm assigned for the week + '13 Lexus GX460, '86 Toyota MR2, '18 Kawasaki Z900RS SE, 2021 Jeep Wrangler (GF's)
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #55 on: November 04, 2005, 01:49:15 pm »
Cap'n Ron, the Altima 0-60 time you quoted and the 0-100 km/h time listed in Artic's article are from two different sources.  Mazda's own 0-60 claim is for 6.2 seconds and Car and Driver (the source for your Altima time) is expecting real-life numbers for the Mazdaspeed to be quicker still.

One thing does puzzle me from Artic's article though: "Mazda promises a 0 - 100 km/h sprint time of 6.6 seconds; quicker than a 2.0 litre Subaru Legacy Turbo or a BMW 330i" -- just what Subaru Legacy WAS that they were comparing the MS6 to anyway?  It's been a lotta years since we've had a 2.0L Turbo Legacy in North America, no?  Are they referring to the last generation Japanese-spec Legacy?

Offline safristi

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 46229
  • Carma: +471/-416
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: since the beginning of Saf timeLOTUS ELAN,STANDARD... 10, MG midget, MGB (2),Mazda Millennia,Hyundai Veloster and 1997 Ford Ranger 2014 Subaru Forester XT
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #56 on: November 04, 2005, 03:40:38 pm »
OK'ey DO'key Snowballs BUT what ya doin' TILDEN!!! eh?......BUDGETing fer the AVIS flu a NATIONAL pandemic???
   Ya MUST TRY harder .....I see a MAZDA ( :light:) in yer future BUD_LITE years frum now........ :stick:
Time is to stop everything happening at once

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13396
  • Carma: +8/-54
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2001 VW Golf TDI 3Dr 5MT, 2007 VW Golf GTI 6MT, 2008 Saturn Astra XR 5Dr 4AT, 2010 VW Golf Wagon TDI 6MT, 2014 Chevrolet Orlando 2LT
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #57 on: November 04, 2005, 03:45:20 pm »
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=107863

How could they completely miss mentioning the Legacy GT?  :-\
« Last Edit: November 04, 2005, 03:50:37 pm by sirAQUAMAN64 »

Offline Snowman

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 38392
  • Carma: +702/-1347
  • Gender: Male
  • “It’s never crowded along the extra mile.”
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Cars: 2012 Audi TT-RS. 2011 Toyota Venza AWD.2004 Honda S2000 Bikes: Giant Defy Avdvanced 0. Giant Talon 29 "hardtail"
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #58 on: November 04, 2005, 04:00:44 pm »
I will be measuring the MPS6’s abilities vs. the LGT I tested a few months ago. I have doubts the MPS6 will handle as well or offer the same performance. Only a test drive will rule one or the other out.

The handling is questionable at the limits on the LGT….but the limit is high….we will see. The weather is supposed to be much cooler and rain tomorrow…..should be fun.

The 0-60 time will have to be in the mid 5’s to be competitive with the LGT. I was getting that in the LGT a few months ago.

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13396
  • Carma: +8/-54
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2001 VW Golf TDI 3Dr 5MT, 2007 VW Golf GTI 6MT, 2008 Saturn Astra XR 5Dr 4AT, 2010 VW Golf Wagon TDI 6MT, 2014 Chevrolet Orlando 2LT
Re: MazdaSpeed6 en route...
« Reply #59 on: November 04, 2005, 04:05:11 pm »
Are you taking a stopwatch? If I was the dealership, I'd be sweating and just close up shop Saturday :hide:

I don't think it will handle as well as the LGT either. But will wiffy push it that hard to make a difference, or it is just to see which is better, bragging rights, or for the times you're driving it?
 

:drive2: