Author Topic: Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?  (Read 13929 times)

Eugened

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« on: February 19, 2005, 08:24:43 pm »
Hi  

I just ordered a new Sienna yesterday. Currently I drive Corolla 99 and I have had rustproof done for it in RustCheck every year. (I live in Ottawa,ON and they put a lot of salt on the road here). So far I am satisfied with their service .
I am thinking what I should do with the new Sienna. I have the following options, that I listed in order of my preference from mostv preferrable to the least.  
1) do not have any  rustproof done for the first 3-4 years while the car is on warranty and then start using Crown or RustCheck
2) Start rustproofing in Crown/RustCheck from the first year the car is on the road
3) Never have any rustproof done
4) Have it done at the dealership (they are quite eager to sell it to me for some exorbitant price, but having read a few reviews and several topics on the Internet, I think generally it is just a ripoff. They keep reminding me that Toyota might void the warranty if rustproofing is done on the aftermarket).  

I will much appreciate any opinions regarding that. Does anybody know  if Toyota would void its warranty if rustproof is done in Crown/RustCheck?
Thanks

Seadog65

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2005, 09:20:51 pm »
Ask your dealer if they use symtec products for rustproofing.  I have had symtec used on 2 previous toyotas with excellent results over the span of over 12 years.  On my last Toyota, a Camry which I bought last year, I had Symtec applied at the dealer for which I paid 595 with a lifetime warranty. I think it was a fair price considering companies like Krown charge 100 per year if you want to maintain the lifetime warranty.  I don't know if all Toyota dealers use Symtec but based on my lengthy experience with the product I have to say that I have been very satisfied with it.

Offline Craig

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2005, 10:00:23 pm »
Most here will recommend Krown, as would I.  I've never heard that Krown, or any rustproofing service, would void your warranty.

Offline jamie1

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2005, 12:22:49 am »
Why would you need to do any rust proofing? According to some people on this forum,cars from ontario don't rust any more.
Enjoying the Alberta advantage

Offline ArticSteve

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2005, 01:04:58 am »
E; Try the search option with the word "Krown" and you will find a more than vigorous debate.  However, nothin good on Starchoice tonight so here is my spiel.  Besides, I hate to see people get ripped off regarding this issue.

Krown was born out of Rust Check.  Rust Check dealers, after years of watching the ownership group commit fraud with the product and the warranty claims, and a very long legal battle, removed themselves from non competition agreements and formed "Krown" as a co-operative.

Now having said that, not all Krown dealers are created equal, but their spray is better than Rust Check.

1.  Forget about the warranty. Forget what the dealers are telling you as they are trying to frighten you or "extort" you into forking over some good cash for ZIP.  Your new car is not going to rust for about ten years whether you apply nothing or use RustCheck or Krown. What you might want to do is get the vehicle sprayed every other year.  Or get the interior panels done very other year and the underneath sprayed every year or vise-versa.  It all depends on your winter road situation.  Personally, in Owen Sound where I live, one drives mostly through a solution of brine, not snow!  Your brake lines, fuel lines, electrical transmission connectors all benefit greatly for Krown type moisture displacement applications.  The dealer stuff just attempts to coat everything with the sticky paste stuff, but sections, however small, are always missed and can actually trap moisture against the very things that you are trying to protect.

I have very first hand knowledge with the dealer applied stuff at leading non domestic dealerships.  The stuff is unlike Krown or Rustcheck as it is a thicker paste like substance that "coats" but does not penetrate seams.  The stuff is useless.  If you have a warranty claim the dealer brings in the "mobile paint guy", he bondos the hole up and blows in the paint.  No where in these warranties does it state that new OEM body panels will be welded into place.

The thing about body rust, as in the case of rear wheel arches of Japanese cars and trunk lids, etc, is that it takes 10 years for rust to form in an untreated car anyways.  But when it does, the car is next to worthless.  So it's a hard call to state if it is a wise economic decision for some, depending on how long they keep vehicles.  I have some lifetime keepers, or so I like to believe, so I get them done every other year.  The winter units I have the bottoms sprayed every year in the spring before I park them.

The dealers sell their "lifetime" once only applications because the profit is fantastic.  At the dealerships that I have first hand knowledge of, the salesman gets a commission as does the business manger whose job it is to close the sale on all the extras like paint protection and fabric protection and extended warranties.  These guys make a good part of their incomes selling this stuff as it is all commission.

Here is how the stuff is sold at dealerships.  The salesman will tell the customer that after the purchase he will meet the business manger who will go through all the ownership and money issues and who will also "inform" the customer of all other "options and services".

The salesman then pulls out a voucher, personally writes the cutomers name down on same and hands it to the new buyer.  The voucher is for $100 only on the complete package (rustproofing, paint protector, fabric protector).  The customer then goes to see the business manager who, while attempting to keep a straight face, feigns that he is somewhat perplexed that the customer has received this personal voucher from the saleman, but for the sake of good business practices, he will honour it just the same if the customer desires the full package.  Bingo, customer is snared and the saleman gets $100 added to his bonus and the buiness manager pockets $200 and the dealer makes in the neighbourhood of $600 clear.  It takes the kid 1 hour and 25 minutes to wax the car, 1/2 hour to spray the gook underneath and 5 minutes holding his breath to spray fabric guard out of a spray bottle.  So 20 bucks to the kid.  Besides the customer, the kid gets a raw deal.

As for the actual "for life" rustproofing, the product comes in a 50 gallon barrel which is pumped out and applied by a kid that is paid usually about 10 bucks per hour.  Nobody sees what he does.  It can be and often is sprayed over an already wet and partially dirty undercarriage!  Who knows, who cares.  As for the doors and interior parts nothing gets done except for the visable parts so the customer thinks he is getting something for his money.  Usually the drain holes get a quick shot as do all hinges which is useless of course. Time alotted for spraying is usually one half hour otherwise the kid gets yelled at for taking too much time and/or using too much product.

Bottom line is that there is no benefit to dealer applied paste type rustproofing.  Krown and Rust Check benefits from interior panel applications don't really come into play until way down the road, but that is the time they are worth their weight in gold.  Krown and Rust Check sprays are great on the mechanicals under the car from day one.

Eugened

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2005, 11:27:02 am »
Articsteve , thank you very much for the very thorougful post.  
I thought pretty much the same regarding rustproofing done in the dealership.
I had another question regarding recommendation for  spraying the bottom and interior panels.
I suspect that you do (or did ) it yourself. (I might be wrong here though)
Would you recommend to have it done from the very beginning, or I should wait 2-3 years ?  
Should I get it done at Krown/RustCheck or there are some other rustproofing(or winter protection) brands that do it. (I think I am going to stay away from Ziebert as I saw plenty of negative feedback on the internet including this forum).
As far as I understood you are talking here not about full rustproofing solution offered by Krown/RustCheck, but just spraying. I wonder if they have a name for such service. The reason why I am asking is that English is not my mother tongue. So I am trying to eliminate the problem of explaining what I want when I come to a shop.
And regarding other details mentioned in your post, the Ottawa winter is quite snowy, but they are used to have snow melted putting a lot of salt on the road, so eventually it comes to the same driving in brine , that you have in Owen Sound (I lived a few years in Toronto which is not the same as Owen Sound, but I suspect driving conditions in Owen Sound are probably even more similar to Ottawa conditions than to Toronto ones. Ottawa is probably equivavlent to Muskoka area in the sense of climate, but more salt on the roads).  
I am planning to keep this car as long as possible, definitely longer than 10 years. Reliablility and durability were the primary reasons for me in making the choice toward Toyota. (And buying it new btw)

Sterling

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2005, 01:00:23 pm »
AS, are you sure that every dealership uses the same stuff?

Offline ArticSteve

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2005, 01:39:30 pm »
I would certainly get the whole treatment done when you first get the car. The idea is to get the Krown fluid inside the body panels where it will creep into all the seams.  Better to have that in there first rather than a combo of salt and moisture and then attempt to displace that 3 years later.

Just to clarify; Krown uses two types of sprays.  One for the interior panels which lasts for some time; at least two years or more because of course those areas are protected from direct assault from the elements.  The undercarriage of the car gets a slightly thicker fluid and it does get washed off the bottom to some extent.

So you need to think of Krown as rust prevention and not rust proofing.  No such thing as rust proofing.  Forget about warranties.  Meaningless things they are regarding this topic.

What Krown and Rust Check are good at is lubricating mechanical fittings and protection electrial connectors.  The stuff is not that much unlike WD40.

My 2 cents is to get the van done asap and then every other year.  Ignore the warranty.

Dispite what the Krown people tell you, don't get the car washed with soap for 5 days.

Offline ArticSteve

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2005, 02:00:07 pm »
Sterling; Sorry I don't get your meaning.  Krown dealers of course use the same stuff as any other Krown dealer.

As for general new car dealerships, they buy from whoever gives them the best prices I assume.  There are a more than a few competing companies in the market to supply dealerships with their brand of stuff, but they are all; "dripless" aka "useless".

Walmart offers the dripless stuff and I think they charge around 100 bucks for the very same service that the dealers do and some dealers are up to 800 bucks.  So the rip offs are obvious.

Anyone can buy the Krown product in a spray can at a Krown outlet.  Rust cHeck can be bought at Canadian Tire.  The Krown stuff can be used as a pentrating oil actually.  You can't buy the dripless stuff in a spray can because it won't come out.  It's too gooey.  Essentially, the dripless stuff looks great on the undercarriage of a car, but it is useless.   It is totally useless in the interior body panels because the second it makes contact with anything solid, it stops and clings.  One would need to cut every body panel wide open to get at all the spots directly.

I won't buy a used car that has had the dripless stuff sprayed on it.  If you have it on a Porsche it kills the resale to folks who know Porsche like the Upper Canada Club chapter.

Offline safristi

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2005, 02:05:39 pm »
Arctic speaks good sense BUT where I differ from him is in the knowledge that if Manufacturers guarantee their products rust free for 8 years AT LEAST..and are using pure NOT recycled steel(at least at Japanese Co's)they don't want to see their cars disappearing in front of 2nd OR 3rd owners eyes and re-living the 70's with rusted out cars killing their image.So they are good with the factory zinc bathed steel and factory coatings to do 10 years RUST FREE standing on their heads.
            IF you are the type that wears suspenders & a Belt...follow Arctics schedule...cost ya what $500 over 10 years...10 fill-ups...now can we go watch the Daytona 500....!!!
Time is to stop everything happening at once

Offline ArticSteve

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2005, 02:37:15 pm »
Saf, yes I agree that a hole will not develope in any Japanese brand car within ten years even in this salt infested enviroment. But it may have slight evidence of surface rust and then it is a fast slide into the abyss after that.

But, Krown does much more than prevent rust that starts in the panel seams, it protects all the various electrical fittings and wiring harnesses underneath the car and in the rad area and firewall area that can cause so much agony later on in say the 7 year and on timeline (in a salty place like Ontario).  Other than Iraq, Ontario is a sh*t place for a car lover.

It's not for everybody, but the "dripless" stuff is for nobody and hopefully a few people will read this and think about it.

Unless your blessed with never ending cash, you get to a point in life that you pick cars you like and you keep them.  As long as the body is mint, the mechanicals can be replaced (usually).

Shol

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2005, 06:44:55 am »
great thread, great insight articsteve

will be buying a car so I will look for this tactic :-)

Shol

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2005, 06:51:23 am »
i was reading up on crowne, and on any thing they do you have to keep doing the rustproofing annually. If we do what this guy is say ing wont that make the wa rranty not valid ? I guess the whole thing is, you really shouldn't need one :-) ?

Oh well let me know :-)

Ericthejet

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2005, 09:28:05 am »
Pass on the rustproofing.  That van will only start rusting 12 years from now and the wiring on japanese vechiles is bullet proof.

Offline ArticSteve

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2005, 02:42:18 pm »
Sohl; you must forget about the warranty.  Just tell them you will come back when your ready.  Some Krown dealers might be aggresive or train staff to maximize profit and over sell the product. Just ignore it all and find a friendly Krown dealer.

Another thing is not all Krown dealers equal.  Find a good one because some skimp and many don't lay it in the trunk and the lid good because they say people complain.

I always have my trunk liners stripped out before I get there to expediate the job which I supervise closely

No wiring or electrical fittings under a car are bullet proof against 4 or 5 months of salt year after year.

Krown is not rust "proofing"  No such thing.  They sell it as a car maintenance product which it really is.  Every other year or every third year depending on location of driving.  They sell spray bottles of it as well.

If I spent 60K on a car, I would spend the $135.00 Krown charge or whatever it has got up to every year.

(Message edited by articsteve on February 23, 2005)

(Message edited by articsteve on February 23, 2005)

Shol

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2005, 03:05:09 pm »
Cool in the GTA / Mississauga area, what krowne dealer would ya recommend :-) ?

William_w

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2005, 03:50:42 pm »
Since we are on the topic.  I would like to find out when is the best time to apply them.  I was told it is best to apply them in May/June, right before the heat and humidity comes in the summer.  

Thanks

Offline ArticSteve

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2005, 04:42:42 pm »
Yes, the hotter the outside temp the more the Krown will travel and creep into crevices.  Plus if the car is winter driven it gives you a chance to wash the bottom off a few times, etc.

Krown dealers get busy September 1 thru to December and then it drops off big time until May.

I like your 71 MGBGT and 95 318.  Both worthy of the money spent on Krown.  MGBGT great car to ride in.  Still has the steel non impact bumpers right?  I spray my winter Saab in late April and usually one of my summer cars mid summer.

(Message edited by articsteve on February 23, 2005)

Roadrunner

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2005, 09:22:25 pm »
PSSSSST! } Artic, you're being naughty. You didn't tell them NOT to park on their driveways for a couple of days after the Krown job.

Barrie1

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Options for rustproofing a new Toyota ?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2005, 11:08:11 pm »
What if its the dripless kind? That only takes about an hour after being applied. Sticks like crazy glue and still gets into where i want it to be.