Topic: Matrix XR vs. Mazda3 Sport GS - please help

[Numfar]

I'm trying to choose between these two cars, and I'm coming out of a '96 Sunfire, so any move is going to be an improvement. That said...

(keep in mind that the car will be an automatic as my wife doesn't drive standard and we're a one car family),

...I like the utility of the Matrix, and the driving feel of the 3.  

I like the nooks and storage options around the Matrix cockpit much more, the view from the Matrix seems better in that the seat seems much higher (and SUV-like) and the Matrix has cruise, power/heated side mirrors, and better fuel economy (I've read), and my wife prefers the Matrix.

The dealership experience with Toyota has been excellent and beyond expectations, while the experience with Mazda has been below average. The Toyota dealership is much newer/more slick than the old Mazda building, and the bays reflect this as well, all making me more comfortable with the Toyota 'experience'.

But after two test drives, I've found the driving position in the Matrix awkward at best, and uncomfortable at worst. And the hard-plastic back end seems like it might be a nightmare of sliding groceries...(though easy to clean).

On the other hand, the 3 drives like a dream, but lacks cruise control, power mirrors, has lower fuel economy.

With my Sunfire trade in, I'm looking at around $25,000 (Canadian) all-in for both cars (is this too much for either??) give or take $200 or so.

I've read so much positive about the Mazda3 that it's pushing me in that direction. But I've also read reference to 'issues'. What are these? Is it likely that I'll get used to the Matrix seating position over time, or will that likely bug me indefinately?

Most important to me are safety, reliability, utility. I don't do much (if any) real sport/performance driving, so some of the 3's advantage might be wasted on me. I also fairly frequently drive around a car-load of 5 adults (short city hops) as several of our friends are carless.

So anyway, I'm looking for any advice/help/input you might have.

Is the Mazda3 Sport reliable? Is Mazda as good as Toyota in dealership service after purchase? Am I paying too much for the Matrix at $25,000? The Mazda3 Sport?

Lastly - is the seat any different in the Vibe? I'd like the side airbags and stability control it offers, but, of course, prefer the resale of the Matrix, and lower MSRP, so haven't really looked at Pontiac yet. Also, for some odd reason, I've heard reliability on the Vibe is spottier than on the Matrix, which I figure is on account of the fact that they're assembled at different plants.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any imput...

(Message edited by numfar on February 04, 2005)

[Ex-airbalancer]

the Matrix and Vibe are made in the same plant in CA.
You should price out both Vibe and Matrix becaue i believe the Vibe may be a better deal with the same optains

[Snowman]

The twins are a General Motors-Toyota co-production using Toyota drivetrains. Vibes are built in the NUMI plant in California that also manufactures most Corollas sold in the U.S, while all Matrixes are assembled in Canada at Toyota's award-winning Cambridge plant.

[Saint11]

it's easier to park a matrix. thats about it. mazda3 beats it in everyway IMO. the plastics are nicer, everything looks better. Maybe a different mazda dealer would change your mind?

[maritime_storm]

When it comes to reliability the Toyota has the advantage. The 3 has suffered from some teething problems{Electrical bugs & transmission failures}. If it we're my choice I'd price out the Vibe and Matrix then go with the best deal of the 2.

[Brig]

"...my wife prefers the Matrix."

Sounds like you're getting a Matrix.  

[Numfar]

My wife marginally prefers the Matrix - but not (yet) overwhelmingly so - so I'm good so far. ;)

Does anyone know if the issues (electrical/transmision/etc) with the Mazda3 persisted in '05 models, or were those primarily teething issues with the intro '04s?

(Message edited by numfar on February 05, 2005)

[Ericthejet]

MY brother was looking at the same vech. not too long ago.  He found the cost of the Matrix a bit high and he and his wife did not like the seats.  They did end up buying the Vibe and are happy with it.  He took a pass on the 3 only for cost reasons.  I told him that the Vibe would be a good choice.  Now go git yerself a car.

[S60]

Check out the Ford Focus ZX5 SES, its a fun driver, offers all the equipment you are looking for, the driver seat can be raised quite high, and price wise should be lower.
Plus Ford is offering some good incentives.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Thanks Snowman I guess I had some bad information  
From Snowman
"The twins are a General Motors-Toyota co-production using Toyota drivetrains. Vibes are built in the NUMI plant in California that also manufactures most Corollas sold in the U.S, while all Matrixes are assembled in Canada at Toyota's award-winning Cambridge plant."

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Num, you basically already know what you're talkin' about from the sounds of it.

The Matrix/Vibe are useful and more upright and airy. Reliability should be superb, mileage a bit better but the engine doesn't have much torque and can get a bit buzzier. The interior looks cool, but comes up short for me upon closer inspection. The flat folding rear seats are a godsent, but as you say a cargo liner may be necessary for the hard plastic in the hatch area. I REALLY dislike the driving position (feels as though the steering wheel isn't centred) and offers lots of headroom but not enough leg room for me (I'm 6-4). Don't like the feel when driving - it's just so dang boring and feels uninspiring. A solid economy car-like feel that I'd drive and spend next to nothing on, but wouldn't really be all that thrilled about or take as much pride in.

The 3 Sport is much hipper and cooler looking, with better acceleration, handling, cornering, and 'feel'/feedback. And as for space to store things, did you open the glovebox? My goodness, it's the biggest thing next to your Sunfire. Probably larger. Mazda even has some low rates on them now. Mileage is worse, but depends what you're using the car for and how you drive. If you rev the Toyota engine a lot you definitely won't get the mileage rating and will also feel short of power in comparison. In an auto, the 3's torque should be noticeable. I thought all Mazda3 Sports had power goodies as standard? Auto transmission issues have crept up on the 3's, and some Mazda disc brakes have not worn well, but I don't know if they were early production builds or if the condition continues. Mazda tends to be very good in my experience with warranty issues, and I would take the gamble on it. Always possible of getting a problematic car from any manufacturer, granted at a lower frequency if a Toyota. Also, the 17" tires aren't good in winter, but if you normally buy winter tires this wouldn't be an issue.  

You really have to decide what's important to you. And dealership experience does play a part too. Not sales, but service. Ask people you see driving them what they think - usually people tend to say good things about the car they drive, but ask about the dealership, etc.  

As you can tell, I prefer the 3. I really wanted to like the Matrix/Vibe, but don't. I'd recommend to other people if they really didn't care for the driving experience, but for me or those who demand just a little bit more, the 3 is the way to go.

[Numfar]

Thank's SirA, that does help some. I've had the Matrix for 24 hours now (testing) and still can't get comfy in the cockpit. Nice to let me take a tester for the weekend, and I do want to like it... we'll see.

B

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Num, do you need a car right away?

Don't know what you're looking for, but if you just want a roomy cabin and aren't too concerned about having the absolute sportiest looks (it has sliding doors), I'd say to hold out 3-4 months till the Mazda5 comes out in May-June (www.mazda.ca --> Vehicles --> Upcoming --> Mazda5)

Or view this thread http://www.canadiandriver.com/discus/messages/1490/24769.html?1107445670 .  

Based on the Mazda3 platform, the 5 will have comfy seating for 6 (the rears can fold flat if you don't need them), the same farily economical 4-cylinder engine (minus a few MPG because of the extra weight - but if you have a growing family it may save you from wanting to trade something smaller in a year or two), but loads more interior space than either Matrix or Mazda3, with lots of equipment at an estimated MSRP of $20-24K.  

Your pretty lady may just like it too. I'd give it consideration. You'd be able to get comfy in it too, as it'll have supportive and height-adjustable seat as well as a tilt/telescopic wheel.

(Message edited by siraquaman64 on February 05, 2005)

[ovr50]

I agree that the Matrix has a different seating position, actually I think it's the way the steering wheel is positioned. I test drove one extensively in 2002 and never did feel right in it either. I found the reversing visability to be poor also.

[johngenx]

We looked at some Matrices lately, and I hated the driveline.  It really felt like the 130hp was about 20hp optimistic and gear ratios for both automatic and manny-tranny were chosen for a car with about 50lbs-ft more torque.  Turned me right off.

The interior is neat and has lots of nifty cubby holes.  The gauges are kinda cool and the HVAC controls were simple.  My daughter really disliked the rear seat, finding the window too high for her to see out very well.

I found it easier to get comfy in the automatic version, not having to worry about seat to shifter, but in the manual car, it was kinda un-natural to me.

The exterior styling is a couple years on now, but looks good.  The Matrix has "only" average CR reliability as of Fall 2004, but I woldn't be too concerned.

We've had a couple Mazda products, and quality and reliability were great.  The gaffe of the 93-02 626 is hopefully behind them.

I greatly prefer the Mazda3 thanks to it's better driveline, crisper handling, better ergonomics and slightly more fashionable exterior.

[Numfar]

Thanks John - good points too.  

I've now had the tester 'trix for almost 36 hours, and have made two discoveries. First, driving it gives me back and leg discomfort (bordering on pain). After the day of testing and a drive out to a friend's place tonight, even my wife complained about a sore back too - very unusual for her (a pilates instructor in her early 30s).

Second - on the drive to the friend's place, I took along a tiny pillow from our living room, jammed it between my leg and the instrument stack, and voila - more comfortable, as my leg/knee has a place to rest, where otherwise the narrowing (to provide more room, I assume) stack is out of reach of my rather short (I'm 5'8) legs.

Doesn't fully correct the problem, but it helps. Still, I'm not convinced it would be a wise choice to buy any car where I have to order the optional orthopedic throw pillows...

I just hope that if we do go Mazda, the reliability issues don't creep up in a couple months, or I will be quite angry with myself for not going Toyota.

SirA - Thanks for the link, and I've taken a look at the Maz5, and while pretty neat, I think it's a bit bigger/more than we'd need. The Matrix is about the largest size of vehicle I'd want, as I live in a fairly old city, with narrow streets and akward parking downtown, where I spend a good deal of my days. Also, no kiddies to worry about now, or in the foreseeable future. Plus, I'm already mentally cringing at the hit in fuel economy I'd be taking with the Mazda3 vs. the Matrix, I'd not want to drop even more.

(Message edited by numfar on February 06, 2005)

[Black Hatch]

"Plus, I'm already mentally cringing at the hit in fuel economy I'd be taking with the Mazda3 vs. the Matrix, I'd not want to drop even more."
Eh

Well the XRS has similar fuel consumption to the 3 sport
while the Matrix base engine matches with the Mazda3 2.0L engine.

If you are all that concerned about fuel consumption... get the Mazda GX sedan.

[Numfar]

Good Points Bhatch,

My issue is that I'm committed to buying  a hatch - which both my wife and I agree will be a much better match to our lifestyle.  

If the Mazda3 hatch came with their base sedan engine, I'd be buying that vehicle without question.  

As noted above, I don't get many opportunities to do driving that takes advantage of the superior performance of the 2.3-litre. On the other hand, I find many uses for extra money, so the savings in fuel expenses could no doubt be put to good use on a regular basis.  

That being said, I'm not immune to the Zoom^2, so the 2.3 does make the idea of driving the back-winding roads of my province a lot more appealing. As such, I am finding myself more-or-less able to rationalize the loss of fuel economy, most of the time. But just occassionally, when I think of the new speakers or laptop I could buy next year with the money saved in the Toyota hatch, I get a bit of a cringe going on. But it passes.

[Shnak]

Numfar, hyave you considered the Suzuki Aerio SX? I personally think it's one of the best offerings on the market right now. Great overall package. I'm currently considering that vehicle myself.

[jamie1]

Shnak,that's just what I was going to say. The Aerio has more room than the both of the other two,has more HP and Torque. You can get it fully loaded with AWD for less then the other two. With the new updated dash,it should be a better seller now. I have a 03 with 40K km and have had no complants with the car.