Topic: Help and advice on pricing information

[Billybob]

Hello everybody. My first post here. Stumbled into this forum 3 days ago and have been reading a lot of your post. This is a great forum ran by very helpful and knowledgeable people.

I was looking around for a van for the past 2 to 3 weeks and have narrowed it down to Odyssey and Sienna. Last weekend, I decided to go the dealership and check out the 2 vehicles. I checked out both the 2005 Odyssey 8 passenger EX and the 2005 Sienna 8 seat LE FWD. After test-driving them, decided to go with the Sienna. Talked to the salesman who was referred to by my brother-in-law who last month bought his 2005 Sienna CE model from him at a discount of $1,500 from the MSRP. I made an offer of $2,000 discount from the LE’s MSRP plus my trade in (which I will get into later). He quickly accepted the discount I was asking for but we have a problem dealing with the trade-in. He’s offering half the price of what I was asking for the trade-in. After an hour of me lowering my trade-in price while him just stuck to his original offer and him going back and forth to the manager, the deal fell apart. I walked away.

I am posting to ask for help on any info on the invoice price of 2005 Sienna 8 seat LE FWD as well as to the Black Book value of 1998 Isuzu Rodeo S 4WD with 118,000kms.  I’m planning to visit 2 more dealers this weekend hopefully armed with these information so that I will have a better bargaining power.

Couple of years ago 2 of my cousins bought their car through a broker. They phoned this guy and told him the make and model of the car they want as well as the price they are willing to pay and according to the broker he can get it direct from the manufacturer. The only catch was that they both have to go to Kingston to pick up the vehicle. (By the way, I’m in GTA). However this broker does not deal on trade-in’s so I have to try to trade my SUV first at the dealer and if that doesn’t work then I’ll have to sell it on my own and see if I can get the Sienna from this broker with let’s say $500.00 above the invoice price.

One more question. For the Sienna, I plan to add in the rear spoiler, hood deflector, side window visor and the DVD entertainment system. Should I add that cost in the base price and start dealing from there or do you advice to treat the accessories as a separate deal afterwards? I know I read a lot of suggestions about “on the road price” so that you only have to deal once.

Thanks a lot for your advice and suggestion guys. Any information will be greatly appreciated.

[Sterling]

The Black Book gives a value of your Rodeo of $4300-$5900 less any reconditioning costs. Those numbers also assume it is an automatic with air conditioning.

How much were they willing to pay for it?

[Billybob]

Thanks for the quick reply Sterling.

Yes it's automatic with A/C and they're offering me $4,500

[ovr50]

Probably better off to sell the trade yourself and buy the Sienna straight up. Excellant choice BTW. The trade offer is reasonable for a dealer so if you think it's worth more, just keep it out and sell it. Long as you more than $630 more than $4500, you're ahead (the tax difference on the trade). Shouldn't queer the deal as the trade is of relatively little value. BTW, doubt seriously it worth $9000 as you may have been thinking.  

Welcome to the Forum, hope it helps you.

[Sterling]

You have to remember that the ONLY reason they will take a trade is if they can resell it quickly for a profit. They are not going to drive it every day like the end user will. They are just going to resell it. Assuming that it is perfect in your eyes, I'd bet they will still have to spend $300-$500 to get it in prime shape to sell on the lot. So they'd be into it for around $5000. Then they might put a price tag of $8900 in the window. Then they may get a customer that says, "I read on CanadianDriver.com that black book on this truck is $4300. I'll give you $5500 for it. After some negotiation they may get $6500. Then they pay a salespersons commission and their profit is less than $1500. Not enough to close up and go to Hawaii on.

Of course, as Ovr50 said, if you feel it will be easy to get more by selling it yourself then by all means go for it. This may work out better for you as I can pretty much guarantee that no used car manager in Canada is saying, "Man, if only I could find a '98 Rodeo to put on the lot."
No offence to your truck, but it is 7 years old and barely financeable, not a prime peice for a franchised dealer's lot.

(Message edited by Sterling on February 03, 2005)

[Mdxtasy]

A 98 Rodeo might sell for $9000 but you'll never get that on a trade...unless the dealer makes it back in the new purchase.  It's a shell game, you can get a great deal on the new car, but get black book on the trade...or they can give you a great price on trade, and then you pay MSRP plus accessories.  

As for dealing with the aftermarket accessories, you know what you're paying for the van....and you'll know what they ask for the add ons....I'd just throw one lump sum number for all the accessories.  

Sienna..nice van.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Well, doesn't help that Isuzu's pulled out of the Canadian market. They're "S" or "SS" - Saturn, Saturn Saab dealers now.

That said, privately I'm sure a young guy would love that truck at that price. It's really an unbelieveable steal for an SUV. I'm shocked.

'BillyBob' you have mail.

[Billybob]

Thank you very much everyone for your invaluable input.

I know the dealer will offer me only that much for my trade-in. But I saw on autotrader same year with higher mileage posted at $10,950; $9999; $8,998 for 147,000km.!

The Rodeo is really a great SUV, got it brand new, originally leased, liked it so much that I bought it after the lease period expires. That was when I was still single but now with my son a year and a half old and we're planning to have a second one, well it's time for me to move to the "Family Van" category.

I'll try to test the water and see if I can price it higher by private sell. Question: How does the PST work on private sell. As I gather, I can not charge the buyer tax for used car, and if we transfer the ownership, me as the seller will have to pay 7% PST of the Govt's book value on the car? Is that how it work.

If I can sell my SUV privately, I'll try to get the Sienna through the broker I mentioned in my previous post.

Siraquaman64 thanks for the PM; So I guess my offer to the Toyota dealer is not way off after all.

[ovr50]

Billybob - The Autotrader prices are "asking" and may not be realistic; but notwithstanding that, it would appear you could do better selling it privately. It's messier and a bit of a hassle, but a couple of Gs is worth it.  
You are correct on how PST works, the new owner pays the province when they register it based on the selling price. Good luck.

[Billybob]

BillyBob wrote: "me as the seller will have to pay 7% PST of the Govt's book value on the car?"

Ovr50 wrote: "You are correct on how PST works, the new owner pays the province when they register it based on the selling price"

Ovr50 that's kind of confusing, the New Owner (buyer) or me (seller) will have to pay the 7% PST? And is it based on the selling price or on whatever book the government refers to. Please clarify.

[ovr50]

Sorry for the confusion. The BUYER pays the PST when he/she goes to register the vehicle with the province for plates etc. You as seller do NOT pay the PST. The PST amount will be set by the selling price of the vehicle.  

OK now?

[Sterling]

The AutoTrader aka The Wishbook.

[Spudson1]

Hey Billybob,
I'm also looking at either an '05 Sienna LE or '05 Odyssey EX. I'd be interested in the prices you end up negotiating. I haven't started the haggling yet, but would like to compare notes if you are interested. Also, would you share the broker you are going to's name with me? I'm in Ottawa, and would like to look into this approach, too.