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Author Topic: Shift without clutch ok?  (Read 15530 times)

Girlwithvw

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Shift without clutch ok?
« on: December 04, 2004, 12:19:35 pm »
I have a 96' VW GTI and have been advised by my mechanic that the clutch will fail in the next year.  A friend recently told me that I can shift without using the clutch.  I tried it and if felt foreign, as I have always used the clutch.

Is it ok to shift without the clutch?  If so, how / when / etc?  Is there any potential damage that can be caused?

thanks!
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Offline maritime_storm

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2004, 01:18:58 pm »
Depends on your budget, shifting without the clutch is a quick way to ruin the synchronizers in your transmission. If your rich and feel like replacing a transmission, go for it. If not use the clutch. Most truck drivers do shift without using the clutch, this is due to the unique dynamics of driving these vehicles{Fast dropping RPM's of diesel engines & close narrow gear ratio's on 13 - 18 spd transmissions}. But 1. you don't need too on 3 - 6 spd transmissions, the gear have wider ratios between them, 2. Gasoline engines freewheel easier, & 3. Your transmissions is not designed for this kind of abuse.
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Offline ArticSteve

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2004, 03:14:02 pm »
No, you cannot shift without the clutch.  It will destroy the transmission very fast.  It's a normal wear item usually around 160,000km to 200,000km depending on driving of course.  Should be about a 500 to 600 buck job.





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Girlwithvw

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2004, 04:16:34 pm »
ok -- this is what I thought...........sorta figured that if there was a major component (clutch, in this case)in the car, it probably had a useful propose! :-)

The friend I received this advice from believes that there is a sweet-spot..........like when shifting from 2nd to 3rd, you reach the peak RPM (not red-lining it but that point when you are about shift) and then let the RPMs come back down a litte, pull out of 2nd and gently into 3rd -- both without the clutch.  

Is this possible -- is it like a more-safe  time/place to go clutchless?!

thanks!
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Offline HeliDriver

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2004, 05:09:41 pm »
Well, it is definitely possible to both up and downshift without using the clutch. Your friend is correct about there being a "sweet spot" at which this can be done safely.

What he may not have told you is that this is an extremely difficult skill to master. And you will definitely want to master it, because doing it less than perfectly, every time, will destroy your transmission in pretty short order.

Since chances are very good that you'll wreck the transmission long before you've mastered clutchless shifting, the real-world outcome of this experiment would likely be that you'll wind up paying for both a new tranny and a new clutch. Not a very successful solution if saving money is your goal, IMHO.
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Offline neil

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2004, 07:51:53 pm »
Yes Girlwithvw, it is called rev matching, and it is very difficult to do.  Essentially if you engine speed is matched to the gear ratio for your road speed the shifter will snick into gear nicely.  If you are 100 rpm low or high you will grind to make a Starbuck's server proud.

Say your car revs at 3500 rpm in 4th gear at 100km/hr, and 2300 rpm at the same speed in 5th gear.  Going from 4th to 5th without the clutch, you would take the car out of gear then drop your engine speed to 2300 rpm, then shift to 5th.  If you are doing 2200 or 2400, you won't get the gear, just metal shards in your transmission housing. :-)
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Offline Brig

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2004, 08:02:19 pm »
(Cringing)  "Is this possible -- is it like a more-safe time/place to go clutchless?!"

Yeah.  It's called automatic transmission.  

Hey!  I have a question!  Can I stop my car without using my brakes?  My mechanic told me that I was going to need a brake job soon, and I really don't want to spend the money.

She doesn't deserve that car.

Brigitte


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Girlwithvw

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2004, 09:09:43 pm »
Brigette -- please don't get me wrong........I am not trying to avoid any expenses with my car.......I enjoy driving it most when it is in top condition and besides that, my VW has plenty of temperment issues that keep my mechanic's hands full of my cash!!! :-)  I was just exploring a theory (that I personally thought was crap) that came up after a couple too many drinks last night.  I am not too car saavy, but have enough common sense to know that if clutch wasn't necessary, it probably wouldn't be installed in the car.

thanks to all for the sound advice!  I have no plans of "going clutchless" or automatic (yuck!!!).

take care!
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Offline Triple Bob

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2004, 02:36:12 pm »
Yep, my mates clutch cable snapped the other day, but the AA Rescue guy couldn't get the car out of the drive to fix it, so he did a three point turn, without the clutch... Ooohhh I had to cover my ears!
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Duch

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2004, 11:50:37 pm »
If you really wanna learn how to shift without the clutch. Take an A-Z drivers course.  After you are used to it, it becomes quite easy, but also, the 18 wheelers on the road are built tougher than your little car.  You can do it, but in the longer run, your much better off with using the clutch.
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Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2004, 11:18:32 am »

My bro shifted without the clutch on his Tiburon and now his Jetta. Doesn't do it all the time.

Told me to 'try it' at that sweet spot and I did on his car, but wouldn't on my own. As you've mentioned, the clutch is there for a reason and you don't hear about people not using it often.

I'm at 240K and was wondering on my car. Not looking forward to it's replacement, as I think it will be more like a thousand or two. Not sure. I'll have to price it out when I'm at my dealer next week.

How did your mechanic know it would fail? Is it slipping, or...?
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Offline wing

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2004, 02:36:01 pm »
I did it on my tiburon for fun, it was a great game...... I lost if I grinded, I won if I could make it to my destination without grinding once.

I rarely won HAHAHAHAHAH
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Offline wing

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2004, 02:45:05 pm »
I did it on my tiburon for fun, it was a great game...... I lost if I grinded, I won if I could make it to my destination without grinding once.

I rarely won HAHAHAHAHAH
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Offline safristi

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Shift without clutch ok?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2004, 02:54:10 pm »
Ya just double deposted and didn't feel a thing!!
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