Topic: GM Takes a Pounding in November

[ArticSteve]

Well no surprise to me.  GM sales down 13.2% in November. All of GM's brands, except for its Isuzu affiliate, posted declines last month. Buick and Pontiac were hardest hit, with sales down 33.5 and 31.4 percent.
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Ford sales fell 4 percent in November, with sales gains by two of the company's European brands, Volvo and Land Rover, helping to offset losses at the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brands.
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Toyota sales rose 8.8 percent in November, according to Ward's, while Nissan had a particularly strong month, with sales up 31 percent.

While struggling against foreign rivals, GM and Ford also face a reinvigorated Chrysler, lifted by its relatively new vehicle lineup, particularly the 300 Series sedan, a car with an expansive grille that has been a rare attention-getter among domestic cars. Sales at DaimlerChrysler, which includes Mercedes, rose 8.8 percent in November, according to Wards.
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Sales were down 13.2 percent at GM, which has recently introduced several new passenger cars but is saddled with an aging lineup of large pickup trucks and large sport utility vehicles.
 
All of GM's brands, except for its Isuzu affiliate, posted declines last month. Buick and Pontiac were hardest hit, with sales down 33.5 and 31.4 percent.

WOW! Buick down 31.5%; no kidding.  My father-in-laws 2000 LeSabre is just junk for what they paid.

Buicks suck.  Pontiacs look ridiculous.  Cadillacs are not much better. Corporate America screwing up again and killing good industrial jobs.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/12/02/business/auto.html
 

[wing]

Wow, guess that's why they have this new on-star challenge.

The local commercial states "Warning: viewing of GM's new line-up may cause you to drive home in a new vehicle."

Sorry but I doubt that.

[Shnak]

At this rate, it won't take long before Toyota overtakes GM as the big #1 worldwide!!

[sirAQUAMAN64]

To my understanding Toyota set the target for this to happen by late '06CY.

[Shnak]

Cool!

Oh how the big 3 have fallen!

[Chris]

I find this unfortunate as there appears to be no reason GM/Ford/DC cannot design and build good vehicles.  Toyota's does not have any magic formula and neither does Honda etc.  

My question is... WHY does GM AVOID designing and building real quality vehicles for a decent price?  Note I said decent price... not the lowest price.

This is not meant to be a slam agaist GM but rather a request to the General to PuhLeeze focus on quality products.... and not just for the odd line!  You can't sell creaky sunflowers then expect the public to pay premium dollar for a Grand Prix.  

I've seen MANY really cool concept vehicles with very interesting engines and ground breaking designs which prove GM's not completely brain dead... but then they bring out the Aztec and put new turn signals on the sunflower.  Aaaaarg... they don't have to be that bad.

I just can't stand it when a company with all the resources that GM (or Ford etc.) had refuses to build interesting reliable products.

[S60]

Its human nature to let the disaster happen 1st,
then do something about it.

Some of the Big 3 2005 models do show major improvements in the material used and build quality.

[Mdxtasy]

Long term reliability and negative exposure like recalls and whatnot really hurt the Big 3.  Their reputation is shot and these new cars, no matter how good, will not fix the problem overnight.  Right now, Toyota and Honda have a reputation that is bulletproof.  A few recall notes on their cars and their sales still increase.  That's what the Big 3 is up against.  

I feel that it'll be a matter of time before Toyota will become and nothing the Big 3 does will change that.  If they don't shape up, Honda might move up too.  The Big 3 have done an awful job at marketing to the younger generation.  The future of car buyers has abandon the domestic market.  This market shift will also compound the demise of the domestic market share.  The domestic makers have really dug a deep hole for themselves, and the foreign makers are just piling the dirt on top of the coffin.    

(Message edited by mdxtasy on December 02, 2004)

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Toyota and Honda have a distict advantage in cost via their production methods and efficiencies. The 'Toyota Production System", or TPS, is a method of lean production that has yet to be duplicated in the same scale anywhere else in the automotive world, and is studied intensely. It results in higher quality cars (less defects), more cars being produced, less cost due to low inventories of parts storage (JIT), and overall less cost to build and bring to market a vehicle.

Other than that, I'm with you: There's no reason cars can't be produced of high quality anywhere, by anybody. You just spec out what you want from a supplier and put it all together tightly.  

If GM wants to continue being the low-priced, lower perceived quality, high volume producer, then fine. There is a market for that. Wal-Mart customers flock to this sort of thing. However, don't pretend or try and fool me into thinking you're a high quality brand in all regards when you're not. I think Lutz is transitioning GM into becoming a high perceived quality company with decent prices - things won't be exotic and astronomically priced - but the cars will excite some people, more than satisfy the masses, and be able to lift off a big portion of the incentives. I think they're on the right path.

Ford is doing similar, but with less passion. Chrysler's always done it through bold design, but now borrowing Benz components has helped them under the skin as well.

I love foreign cars, but honestly think the Big 3 will maintain or even take back some car share.

[Snowman]

We will see how long the Japanese can withstand the USD vs. Yen. The profit margins of all the foreign brands sold in North America are shrinking fast. Not much fun when the foreigners go trade their USD from sales into Yen or Deutschmarks.

How will they compensate for this over the long run?....and the low USD is here for a long time.

[ArticSteve]

I see we all pretty much read from the same page.

I just hate to see all the good jobs pissed away.  But that seems to represent the new America.  

[eddy4]

I work for a parts supplier for GM and Ford , The way they treat suppliers in general is disgusting. Ford always wants the cheapest possible part, not the best quality or most reliable or strongest, just the cheapest. If you can't meet the cost , they walk. These days with rising steel costs and rising energy costs you feel guilty to ask for a fair wage for fear of losing your customer to an Indian or Chinese company.

[Barrie1]

GM must be doing something right as the Gov has purchased 1060 Silverado P/U's for the military. They have purchased 357 more Mercedes G Wagons which 160 are fitted with armour and Top Turret Gun. $130.00 each. Guess which one has the Floors cracking under the Brake area? 85% of the G wagon used around Kabul are having this problem. Problems can happen to any vehicle No matter how much or heavily built it is. Apparently the Silverado's are doing very well so far but time will tell.

[DriverJeff]

True enough, Barrie.  GM IS doing something right:  their truck sales were up 18+% for Nov.  They've proven (as has Ford and Dodge) that the domestics know how to build good, solid, reliable trucks.  Now they need to apply some of the resouces and efforts to compete in the mid-size sedan market.  The Pontiac G6 is a definite step in the right direction... though by what I"m reading, not quite up to snuff with the Accord or Altima or Mz6 for overall driving dynamics.  The 300 is a good effort by D-C... but the 500 seems to be proof that Ford is asleep at the switch (or else that they invested too many resources into developing the cool new Mustang).

Honda's having woes too though.  From today's news section here on the site:

Decliners in November included Volkswagen (-7.7%), Ford (-4.9%), and Honda (-1.2%). All the luxury automakers experienced sales increases - with the exception of Acura (-19.0%).

Yowsa!  With the TSX new for '04; new TL this year and the RL just arriving and they're the only luxo maker that's suffered a decline?  Even Lincoln had a good month?  For shame, Acura.  Maybe it's time to stop trying to tell people what they should want (V6 is good enough... you don't need RWD to have a sport sedan) -- and start listening to what they're after.  As far as I know Infiniti's G35 isn't hurting.  

Barrie, regarding the G-wagen, you'd think Benz would know how to get it right -- they've been building those things since Ovr50 was a child, haven't they?

[sirAQUAMAN64]

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Eddy, that's unfortunate. Heard the Japanese are the ones who work closest with suppliers to produce a quality component, in a win-win-win (automaker-supplier-consumer) situation for all involved. They want healthy suppliers, and thus will allow some margins on parts for suppliers and work WITH them, not threatening them. I don't know first hand, but there are reports supporting this.

The Indian/Chinese issue is very scary for us all, for jobs and as a whole. The Chinese are literally buying up Canada (especially natural resources), and manufacturing is simply disappearing from here. They will really have some power against the US, which will be even more frightful than today where the US is the sole superpower. People need to pay closer attention to what's happening, I think. It will affect us all to a great degree.

[S60]

Jeff1 Infiniti is doing just fine.

INFINITI HIGHLIGHTS
- It was the best November in Infiniti’s history
- Sales for Infiniti were up 38.2 percent from last November, with 11,581 units sold  
- G35 sedan (4,158 units sold up 78.2% from Oct 2003) and FX (3,153 units sold) had their best November ever
- QX56 (1,399 units sold) had its best month ever
- Calendar year-to-date sales are up 9.4 percent with 118,920 units sold

G35 is up 18.7% year to date

Numbers are for North America sales.

(Message edited by S60 on December 06, 2004)

[mrthompson]

The Chinese are literally buying up Canada (especially natural resources), and manufacturing is simply disappearing from here

Just thinking of this scares me.  How can a country  maintain its sovereignty when foreign investors own a good chunk of said country?

What happens if China goes to war with Taiwan?  Will Canadian raw materials be funneled away to make weapons for China?

[ovr50]

What childhood? I was working in the coal mines at age 8.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Acura blamed the Canadian dip on the tight supply of '05MY vehicles, namely the TSX. Not sure how much that was to blame.

Yeah Mr T, that whole Chinese thing really has me thinking lately.

[Snowman]

As much as I welcome foreign investment in this country I am concerned that we are giving up too many bargaining chips for the future.