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Author Topic: RX-8 rotary  (Read 48467 times)

Davidm

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2004, 05:16:38 pm »
There has been a recent reflash of the RX-8 ECU's from mazda that is giving people significantly better gas mileage - 17mpg average has moved up to 21 mpg.  Still not fabulous, but not horrific either.  As an aside, a recent post on the Miata forum (the RX8 is a popular second car there) had an RX8 get 27 mpg in mixed use driving including hitting the redline several times (as well as being a bit low on tire pressure).  They apparently get much better gas mileage as they age (> 5k miles).

S2000 is a truely worthy competitor in both handling and power, but is obviously smaller.  The 350z is a pig IMHO, and yes it has power, but is not nearly as nice a handler (besides the yucky interior - but that's just personal opinion).

Lots of 1st gen and 2nd gen (non-turbo) RX-7s rolling around.  They work great until you turbo them and then apex seals start blowing all the time.

Older rotaries (ie 2nd gen RX7s) do stall in the above scenario quite easily, from what I can tell RX8s basically don't have this problem comparatively.  I agree, this should not be a consumer car issue in this day and age, but it is much, much better than it used to be.

I prefer the Honda 4-bangers, but the RX8 rotary is a close second for me (they do sound wonderful) ...
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Offline wing

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2004, 06:08:16 pm »
Interestingly here at the auto-x events the 350z beats the S2000 by 2-3 secs a run.  Could be all driver, but maybe not.
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Davidm

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2004, 06:50:13 pm »
What style of auto-x course is it?  Lots of slalom, any big straights?  Where do the speeds in the course fall on the shift points of the two cars?  Is the 350 ahead on most course configs, or only at one?

I also wonder if the torque off the line (and at low RPM) is helping the 350 over the weight/handling pluses of the S2k.  Then again, it could just be a better driver with better tires ... (besides, I still like the S2k better )
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Offline Railton

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2004, 07:44:13 pm »
In my opinion anyone spending $40 large or more for a sports car yet are worrying about fuel economy or insurance costs has overextended themselves.
Anyone for another Rotary Mazda?
www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7662
Railton
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Robarakira

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2004, 02:44:10 am »
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Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2004, 10:02:48 am »

For the CANADIAN market, the RX-8 is doing very well.

Thru Sept   '04YTD  '03YTD  Base Price
RX-8         1718     666     $36,895
350Z          909    1338     $45,400 (Over G35 Coupe!)
G35(sed+cpe) 3696    4211     $45,200 Coupe
S2000         207     193     $49,000

The G35 has done very well, no doubt about it. But since more than half that has to be sedan, I'd say the RX-8 is doing pretty well especially in light of the fact it uses an engine the general public knows little about and might be skeptical of. And if you don't think there's value in the pricing, well I'd like your kinda money.
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Offline wing

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2004, 10:40:03 am »
What, I thought the G35C was more expensive than the 350z...

And look at the S2000, that's interesting to say the least.  They sold more '04's than '03's.

I guess that could mean a few things.  People like the bigger engine and redesign, or a lot of people that had '00's and '01's finished off the lease and got an '04.
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Offline wing

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« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2004, 10:48:12 am »
Hmmm, I guess that's the base auto price, why oh why is the Manual $3000 more.
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Captain_ron

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2004, 12:29:17 pm »
LOL, yea the base price is Auto.

The auto is like what? 200hp? 0-60 in 10 seconds.

Canada is such a small market it is really not significant.  I look at the states. The 350z has 5000 units on the RX8, and the G35 coupe probably has another 15000 units on the RX8.  If you add all that up, 350z+G35 Coupe sales probably total close to 55,000.  The rx8 is 19,200.  Considering the 350z/G35 coupe are nearly the same car thats pretty good sales.  

I think the sales of the G35C/350z will grow even stronger compared to RX8 due to updates.  
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Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2004, 12:47:14 pm »

The base price is what in auto? Which vehicle? If you're talking the RX-8, Mazda.ca states base pricing is the the 6-spd manual.

When comparing to the US market, remember that market share wise, Canada is Mazda's biggest market by far. It is a surprisingly small player in the US, with Nissan selling roughly 4X the number of total Nissan/Infiniti units.

For Sept '04 ('03) alone, Nissan division sold 70,127 (58,989), and Mazda only 18,894 (20,444). Surprisngly sales for Mazdas have leveled off after a very strong start, whereas Nissan keeps on truckin' - litterally, with those new entries and the Altima. So, I don't think comparing sales volumes alone between the Z and RX-8 is all that valid, although it's obviously a large component.

(Message edited by sirAQUAMAN64 on October 19, 2004)
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Captain_ron

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2004, 01:23:46 pm »
Yea, my bad.  I didn't know they offered the manual at that price.  

I always thought you could only get the Auto at that price.  
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Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2004, 02:28:45 pm »

I hadn't really been paying attn, and when it was said I was thinking "really???". I'd love to know what the percentage manual/auto is.  

I would imagine the auto would be pretty weak on power too. Still, although not perfect it's one swanky car. With lots of character.
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Offline RayT

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« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2004, 02:57:18 pm »
"
c)Pretty much any sports car in the price category will leave the RX8 behind in 0-60."

"Mustang GT, 350z (Base RX8 6spd and base 350z cost the same in the states I think), SRT-4, the new RSX type S will certainly be very close to RX8 0-60. "

All I can say is "sigh"

Anybody who drives and prefers a RSX-S, SRT-4, or Mustang GT over a RX-8 is obviously not in the target demographic for the RX-8. Since when is 0-60 the only meaningful measure of the desirability of a sports car anyway? What about the other stuff like how well it handles, what it looks like, how rare it is, how much fun it is to drive.  

And the G35C is nowhere in the same price category as the RX-8. The RX-8 starts at $35-ish K, the G35C is well over $10K more.


(Message edited by rayt on October 19, 2004)
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Captain_ron

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2004, 03:05:42 pm »
The G35C comes fully loaded.  To load up the RX8 it comes in around $41,000.  

The base RX8 doesn't have leather/sunroof/heated seats/xenon lights ect ect ect..
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Offline wing

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« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2004, 03:14:08 pm »
But the 6spd G35C is $47,700
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Offline Drivesideways

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« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2004, 03:19:13 pm »
Anybody who drives and prefers a RSX-S, SRT-4, or Mustang GT over a RX-8 is obviously not in the target demographic for the RX-8.

I'm not sure it's that "obvious" from a vehicle configuration and dynamics point of view.  I would say that the makers of all those cars are aiming to produce quick nimble cars that amuse their drivers.  Some take different routes to get there and the end result is different in many respects. But I don't think Mazda would focus its target market so narrowly as to exclude the potential buyers of the 3 competitors you mentioned, except maybe when it comes to price and appointments.
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Ghost

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2004, 03:22:43 pm »
The RX-8 is targetted at RX-8 buyers. How's that.
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Captain_ron

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« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2004, 03:30:16 pm »
yea, $7000 difference.  

Most of what I have read on various forums, people compare the RX8 vs RSX Type S, where as they compare the G35C to 330Ci.  

Some people would rather pay 7k extra and be in 330ci territory vs RSX territory.  
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Davidm

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2004, 03:31:35 pm »
Update on gas mileage.  The guy on the miata board just got 20.2 mpg out of his most recent tank of gas in mostly stop and go driving (no A/C).

The G35C to me is in a completely different price category ($47 vs 41k).  RSX-S and SRT-4 - both are FWD and targeted at a younger demographic.  Really they are hopped up economy cars more to compete with the WRX and company.

Mustang GT buyer is not an RX-8 buyer.  The list of differences is too long to enumerate.

When I consider a base RX-8 at $36.8k (IIRC) the purchased new competition to me is the Legacy GT, a very base IS300, BMW 320i (with almost no options) and that's about it.  These are the cars to compare it to if you ask me.  That's what I would cross-shop.

As far as total sales - who cares?  We don't know the business plans for the two cars.  If Nissan spends $100M more on advertising the G35C and 350z they sure as better sell a whole lot more cars.  This business is more about profit than gross sales numbers.  Besides, more people having purchased a car does not make it better, otherwise the Sunfire is the best car in North America (shudder).  As long as it makes money who cares ...
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Captain_ron

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RX-8 rotary
« Reply #59 on: October 19, 2004, 03:34:18 pm »
"Anybody who drives and prefers a RSX-S, SRT-4, or Mustang GT over a RX-8 is obviously not in the target demographic for the RX-8."

yea I agree with what Driversideways said, when a person has 30k-50k to spend on a sporty car they are most likely going to test drive the RSX-S, 350z/G35C, RX8, S2000, some may also choose to test drive 05 GT Mustang, SR-4, 3-series ect.

I own a Corvette, it would be dumb to say I belong to the demographic that would only buy a front engine V8 RWD American car over $60000CND.
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