Author Topic: OT…The rising Canadian Dollar  (Read 39226 times)

S60

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2004, 04:46:07 pm »
DSW,You would have to ask the foreign investors that question.

I just read an article on Canadian exports to Sweden totaled $264m in 2002, while Swedish exports to Canada totaled $1.78 billion.This is quite an imbalance,which will not improve with a higher loonie.
I believe Sweden is the 8th largest European investor in Canada.

Offline johngenx

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2004, 04:56:49 pm »
Conference Board of Canada?  Hahahaha.  There's a unbiased economic source.  However, if you read closely, you get the idea that productivity is NOT king.  Wal-Mart is a prime example of a highly productive business that uses labour market friction (drug testing, pay withholding, etc.) to keep labour rates low and limit competition within the low wage market.  They love to say "compete or die" when they really mean "just die."  Thay also promote many policies that are "anti-social."

Restrictions on foreign ownership in those sectors -- notably in banking, newspapers and book publishing -- "may reduce competitive pressures, particularly in situations where domestic competition is not intense."

Well, perhaps the fact that Schedule A charter banks are granted an oligopoly that functions like a monopoly might have SOMETHING to do with it?  What about the decimation of anti-trust laws by neo-con gov'ts?  That's assisting the creation of oligoplies in many industries and destroying competition.  Business will take the path of least resistance and seek to monopolize wherever possible.  The only way to ensure a competitive environment is to create a level playing field that allows small firms to take on the big guys.  Predatory pricing laws, not allowing mergers, anti-combines laws (and their ENFORCEMENT) all generate competition.  But, weepy business lobbies cry "intervention" and convince folks that ALL intervetion is bad, even the kind that generates competition.  There is NO business lobby crying for increased productivity unless it is limited to restriction on labour through the relaxation of labour laws and minimum wages.

Isolating productivity as a target is short sighted and tends to ignore many other factors, including societal goals.

Are we lazy?

I have dealt with hundreds of low income families over the years.  I have done extensive volunteer work with Habitat in family selection and other social housing projects.  There are many working poor that work harder than I would ever be willing to.  Not kidding.  Some of the most rotten work in Canada pays next to nothing.  But, I have found that many Canadian born families aften have a sense of entitlement.  Any project I begin, or join, is based on "hand up" as opposed to "hand out."  It's the old teach them fish thing...

Well, many families are not happy when they find out they have to BUY the house, and don't get it for free.  Huh?  But, for every family like that, there are five that work five jobs and barely sleep to eak out a living.

I have found, almost universally, that newcomers to Canada are much more willing to work hard, and work below their intellectual capacity.  This is for a shot at their children enjoying our education system and the ability to attend post secondary schools.  

We should appreciate our nation as much as many others do.

Offline Shnak

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2004, 04:59:13 pm »
I just read an article on Canadian exports to Sweden totaled $264m in 2002, while Swedish exports to Canada totaled $1.78 billion.This is quite an imbalance,which will not improve with a higher loonie.
I believe Sweden is the 8th largest European investor in Canada.


That's all because of Ikea!!!

Offline johngenx

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #63 on: October 05, 2004, 04:59:26 pm »
No matter what the so-called experts say I will continue to Favour Canadian Made Products over anything made in the US

Barrie's shopping for a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic!  Maybe even a Matrix!

Way to go...

(no kidding)

Offline safristi

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #64 on: October 05, 2004, 05:24:23 pm »
Why are we all getting so hot under the wallet about the Canadian DOLLAR...hell I got me a new
$20!! taday...so i am ahead of you guys and it's jest so colourful,cute and changing when ya hold it up to da lite..we don't need no moofies fer a week...Yuk..yuk..yes an ma Lexus is doin' fine boys but the Maybach has been nuffin' but truble...cain't tow a trailer fer sh*t!!!!!
Time is to stop everything happening at once

S60

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #65 on: October 05, 2004, 05:37:44 pm »
That's all because of Ikea!!!  
And some fine automobiles:-)

Barrie1

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #66 on: October 05, 2004, 10:51:50 pm »
Sure Glad GM, Ford and Chrysler have Plants building top notch products in Canada. These are more my market John. It always made me wonder why such small vehicles cost so much money for their size compared to a large GM for example. I also wonder where they send all of the profits as well on the smaller Cars. I don;t think that much stays in Canada.  

Offline saint_satan

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2004, 07:56:25 am »
Sure glad the Honda Civic is built in Canada  Great for the Canadian economy and local jobs.

Don't think for a second any of the money from the Big Three stays in Canada either.  There are no "foreign" or Domestic" cars anymore in a global economy.  The money goes to the shareholders.  Also, I've also wonder why the Big Three have the Boils to charge $50K for a pickup truck or an SUV that has a 4 year residual around 35%.

Von_khan

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2004, 09:08:05 am »
Case in point.  

I work for a cold storage company that was concieved and run Canadian for 30 years. Its a huge setup, 3 large plants. Store huge quantities of food from manufacturers and forward it to distributors. We use modern picking equipment, industrial automated racking cranes (unique up here) and have excellent employees working the floor.

Unfortunately we've started to lose accounts to American cold storage companies that have started to set up shop in Ontario and elsewhere. They are underbidding us and we cant help it. They charge the same for shipping, storage. However we are seriously undercut on handling fees.

Ie. what we pay our employees is too much by their standards. Our floor and stacker jobs are not completely unskilled, but they arent hard. Workers have to work in cold conditions and that naturally exacts a premium. The average employee, who needs no previous qualifications earns $19/hr. This is luxurious by warehouse standards. However these guys are very proefficient at their tasks, rarely mispick, have basic education, and are very loyal workers.

OTOH, the Yanks are paying close to (what we estimate is) $12-3/hr to poor schmucks who cant find better jobs. They've invested considerable amounts of capital in equipment and are undercutting Canadian Cold storages. Efficiency? Please! Gimme a facking break.. these guys are exploiting poor workers to get ahead in the market. The way the unemployment figures are for unskilled labour, there is no way they'll run out of manpower.

We've been doing everything we can to avoid layoffs and keep all of our people. But we will hve to change the way we've worked for so long the same way most of our retailers have adjusted to the American retail invasion.

I'll tell you what most American and some neo-Canuck companies view efficiency as... screwing your employees up the keester thats what. Cut costs where you can, especially were human input is involved.

John is right. Ask yourselves: Who pays in the end for this cuthroat competition?

In the end we will have no choice but to become more like our neghbors in the south. Its either compete or fade away. Catch 22.

Offline johngenx

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #69 on: October 06, 2004, 09:46:23 am »
The way the unemployment figures are for unskilled labour, there is no way they'll run out of manpower.

This is thanks to the ridiculous idea that 8% unemployment is "natural" or full employment.  Bunk.  There has been a large effort by business interests to keep a large pool of available labour to keep wages low.

Von_khan

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #70 on: October 06, 2004, 09:54:44 am »
No crap!

Exactly what I believe. And even with the employment we have.. look at the percentage which are sh*t jobs. This is when there is always a requirement for trades/degree employees. Its just that these companies choose to look the other way. Exploit what is easily exploited... people without money.

I had to watch my father lift boxes to bring home a measly paycheque for a year after moving  to Canada. University of Michigan engineering alumni... Go figure.

We're still one of the lucky ones.

Mdxtasy

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #71 on: October 06, 2004, 10:03:21 am »
The average employee, who needs no previous qualifications earns $19/hr.  

OTOH, the Yanks are paying close to (what we estimate is) $12-3/hr to poor schmucks who cant find better jobs.

Is $19/hr a fair price to pay these employees or is $12-$13/hr a fair wage?  Also, do you know for a fact that these people are poor schmucks who can't find a better job elsewhere?  Or are they just as dedicated and starting out in a position they are new at and trying to improve their skills?

Von_khan

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #72 on: October 06, 2004, 10:16:51 am »
I believe its a very fair wage. I worked on the floor as a student so I know.

Working conditions are in -18 to -25 degrees celsuis. More than half the positions require VERY frequent lifting of 10-60 lbs for the duration of the 8 hour shift. The rest of the positions require excellent lift truck driving skills in cold conditions, being able to stand in the machine to take the cold.

For course we provide them with $4K cold suits but I'll tell you through personal experience... they only help if you move like a madman.

The senior emplyees have it easier, they operate forklifts in 5 degrees on our huge dock, taking care of shipping for the very large auto stacker orders.

Standard warehouse job in normal weather conditions pays $10-12. Fork and stacker jobs around $14.  

The company respects the fact that our employees are expected to and do perform under extreme conditions.  

Hence the $19.  

Didnt any of you ever work a labour job to get by? Trust me it aint fun.

Mdxtasy

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2004, 10:22:14 am »
I did.  I did shipping/receiving for years through university under similar conditions.  It wasn't -25C or anything but it was shift work and it was heavy lifting.  I did a lot of produce moving and a pallet of potatoes, pumpkins, apples etc isn't light.  

I merely pose the question on what a fair wage would be not only in your company, but the competitors (American and Canadian) to try and understand how the company can undercut wages by such a significant amount.  If what you say is true about shotty labour at the competition, this only leads to poor customer service and over the long term, clients will voice displeasure.  The only thing is your company has to weather it or try and shift gears and work at trying to get some clients back with additional value added services.


Von_khan

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #74 on: October 06, 2004, 03:14:30 pm »
Which is what we're hoping will happen. Employess paid less and treated worse will give less of a crap about their shipments. Hopefully the clients we've lost will realize that and return. But its a lot of time to be losing money with unused manpower.

Right now (for the sake of knowing) we've estimated about $1M of annual savings for just 1 plant if we match those wages. So you can imagine the price differences that means for some accounts.

Offline johngenx

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #75 on: October 06, 2004, 04:38:30 pm »
$19 an hour full time is about $38,000 a year.  That's high?  In 2004 we would outrage at someone earning $38,000 a year?  That's not enough to qualify for a mortgage on an average priced home in Edmonton right now.  But, your average Edmontonian earns about $33,000 a year, so I guess in that light, it's pretty good.

What I have seen in many firms is a large gap in what people earn, regardless of their importance in the organization.  I have consulted with companies that tried to solve high turnover rates.  When I would enter the firm, I would find that people were often underpaid relative to other firms, but the real culprits were things like poor morale and inflexibility, fostered by management.  Creating a change in internal culture was difficult without changing management.  Take a firm where the receptionist barely earned more than minimum wage and was treated in a poor manner by management.  Well, the job had a very high turnover rate, but the real problem went deeper.  This particular business relied on the front desk to greet all clients, regardless of importance.  The biggest customers had their intial point of contact with that receptionist.  No one realized that this job was a key point in the sales process of the firm?  Wake up!

Al Olsen is a busniess person that I met some years ago.  He was one of the founding partners in Stuart Olsen Construction and moved into many other ventures.  Sitting on his desk was a sign that read:

Quality
Service
Price
*Pick any two of the three*

He was right, and the principle still exists.  Firms have been subject to the Wal-Mart onslaught of low prices along with low wages, low service and dubious quality.  Wal-Mart cares not a lick about the quality of the products on their shelves, but instead in the number of turns and average margin per unit.

By shopping at Wal-Mart we, of the middle and upper-middle class, access low prices subsidized by the low income employees of Wal-Mart.  Wal-Mart offers these low prices by using leverage against it's suppliers (and often suppliers must reduce their workforce and/or wage levels to meet Wal-Marts demands) and by keeping it's own employee's earnings low.

Well, wait a minute!  If we're at "full employment" shouldn't the gap between supply and demand cause a rise in wages?  It should, but 8% is NOT full employment.  Also, Wal-Mart introduces friction in the labour market, making it difficult for employees to change firms to seek a higher wage.  How?  Wage withholding is one major obstacle.  You have to wait for weeks after you quit for your "final" paycheque and vacation pay.  Meanwhile, your new employer has a withholding period on your initial cheque, meaning a serious gap in earnings.  This can be disastrous for a low income earner.  I know, I lived this reality at one time.  What else?  Drug testing.  You're required to travel to a lab location (many low wage earners don't have a car) and take time from your existing job.  That's very difficult.  Also, why on EARTH can an employer require a drug test when the POLICE can't ask for one without probable cause?  Do I give a rat's ass if my greeter at Wal-Mart is stoned out of their mind?  Hell, more power to them if they are, at least it might make that crappy job tolerable.

Wal-Mart and other large low wage employers have policies deisnged to introduce friction into the labour market and depress wages regardless of unemployment levels.  They don't rely on their lobby efforts to keep the "jobless recovery" going.

What about the idea of low unemployment?  Gov't's don't talk it much anymore, do they?  Instead they talk about GDP growth and low inflation.  The trick to fiscal policy is to manage the relationship between inflation and unemployment.  Well, inflation has become the sole target now, and that suits an elite group of people just fine.

Suppose you're one of the wealthy elite in Canada.  You are not an income earner.  You're an asset holder.  Asset value is eroded by inflation.  You want fairly high unemployment (low wages) and super low inflation to keep from eroding the asset base which makes up your wealth.

What about taxes? Dividend income and capital gains are barely taxed.  Income is taxed like mad.  Here's why that is so funny it's TERRIBLE:

**If you didn't work hard for your income, you pay little or no taxes.  If you had to work your fingers to the bone everyday, then you pay taxes on every cent.**

Does this make ANY sense?  

What about taxing the crap out of the income on investments, but give me a break on my earned income tax.  Does this make sense to 95% of Canadians?  Sure, but we're not part of the Paul Martin Club (he's worth millions...) and 99.99% of us will never be.  However, the policy would OUTRAGE the richest folks, and well, dollars = votes, right?  Huh?  It seems to.

Barrie1

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« Reply #76 on: October 06, 2004, 10:38:36 pm »
Now ain't that the truth, Thank You John for that excellent summation. I definitely give you a 5.

Offline Drivesideways

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #77 on: October 07, 2004, 01:20:00 pm »
I just realized I'm wearing blue and brown and working for the clampdown.
"PC Load Letter...what the f_ck does that mean?"

Offline neil

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #78 on: October 07, 2004, 10:15:50 pm »
Good discussion folks.

The US is our largest trading partner, but globalization means we should widen our scope instead of limiting dollar comparisons only to the US.  What have other currencies done vs the US Dollar?  Is the current Loonie flight strong on it's own or is it soaring based on the weakness of a wartime US greenback?

Interestingly, both.  Developing industrial powers have kept their currency almost in lockstep to the USD in the past year.  The Peso has actually slightly depreciated.  The Rupee is almost identical, the Yuan the same as is the Korean Won.

the Pound has risen substantially like the loonie, and the yen has climbed significantly.  Ditto the FRF and DEM.

Offline safristi

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OT…The rising Canadian Dollar
« Reply #79 on: October 07, 2004, 10:58:53 pm »
"The Clampdown racetracks 8 miles wide..dooh dah..doo dah" C''mon John "X" Kerry...WalMart the Evil Empire...can't you do better...untold millionaires amongst their staff and jobs for the
minorities!! Seniors,betweenagers and a multi Billion industry from Benton Ak...spose you Hate Microsoft TOO......maybe we should all whittle Walrus tusks fer the tourists instead....????