Topic: Can Japanese car makers be trusted.

[sszoomzoom]

Interesting news about Toyota, Mazda and Honda.
Not clear what the actual issue is.
https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/business/companies/20240604-190067/

[Great_Big_Abyss]

From what I can gather, it affects certification on vehicles sold in Japan? 

Doesn't seem to affect us here...

[WP v3.32]

They all bowed so it's all good

[rrocket]

From what I can gather, it affects certification on vehicles sold in Japan? 

Correct.

[bridgecity]

Pretty terrible article.  I can't tell what was done wrong besides a note on "falsifying documents".  Very little detail. 

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Pretty terrible article.  I can't tell what was done wrong besides a note on "falsifying documents".  Very little detail.

It could be anywhere as innocent as forgetting a few dots on i's and crosses on t's, to anything as bad as maliciously falsifying emissions tests.  We just don't know. 

[bridgecity]

Pretty terrible article.  I can't tell what was done wrong besides a note on "falsifying documents".  Very little detail.

It could be anywhere as innocent as forgetting a few dots on i's and crosses on t's, to anything as bad as maliciously falsifying emissions tests.  We just don't know.

I guess that was my point.  We don't know.  It would have been nice for the article to explain it, and if that information isn't available, then say so.

Effin Toyota, first their shitty floor mats and now this 

[sszoomzoom]

More clarifications in this article. Looks like forged safety tests.
https://www.rt.com/business/598740-japanese-car-makers-tests-trickery/amp/

[rrocket]

More clarifications in this article. Looks like forged safety tests.
https://www.rt.com/business/598740-japanese-car-makers-tests-trickery/amp/

Anything from RT is hot garbage.

Might as well just link to the Enquirer...

[sszoomzoom]

More clarifications in this article. Looks like forged safety tests.
https://www.rt.com/business/598740-japanese-car-makers-tests-trickery/amp/

Anything from RT is hot garbage.

Might as well just link to the Enquirer...

Did not know that.
I don’t read or watch any news so never heard of Enquirer or RT.
I have stoped watching or reading news during Covid as it was just too much.
I’m happier this way.

[ktm525]

This is being reported through major news organizations though. Not North American stuff but still cheating.


https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-other-japan-automakers-under-fire-vehicle-certification-issues-2024-06-03/

I would be more concerned with the growing Toyota V6 TT recall. That is straight up Hyundai levels of incompetence.


https://www.thedrive.com/news/we-finally-know-why-the-toyota-tundra-v6-keeps-self-destructing

But the real story may be that the bearings themselves are undersized. 2024s are having failures. I find it hard to believe debris is an issue over multiple model years.

[WP v3.32]

This is being reported through major news organizations though. Not North American stuff but still cheating.


https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/toyota-other-japan-automakers-under-fire-vehicle-certification-issues-2024-06-03/

I would be more concerned with the growing Toyota V6 TT recall. That is straight up Hyundai levels of incompetence.


https://www.thedrive.com/news/we-finally-know-why-the-toyota-tundra-v6-keeps-self-destructing

But the real story may be that the bearings themselves are undersized. 2024s are having failures. I find it hard to believe debris is an issue over multiple model years.

Undersized bearing?   Isn't it the same issue in the Ram 1500 ecodiesels (V6 3.0L) blows up?

[ktm525]

Well it may be that the oiling system doesn't prioritize the main bearings. Either way it is looking like the Toyota TTV6 is a disaster. Old Toyota would have replaced and redesigned the engine but it seems like new Toyota is dragging it's feet. Going to bite them in the ass.

[rrocket]

Well it may be that the oiling system doesn't prioritize the main bearings. Either way it is looking like the Toyota TTV6 is a disaster. Old Toyota would have replaced and redesigned the engine but it seems like new Toyota is dragging it's feet. Going to bite them in the ass.

LOL. Put the crack pipe down.

New or Old Toyota isn't redesigning a multi billion dollar engine program for 100k engines.

No issues with the first engine in the family...the Lexus LS.

[ktm525]

Well it may be that the oiling system doesn't prioritize the main bearings. Either way it is looking like the Toyota TTV6 is a disaster. Old Toyota would have replaced and redesigned the engine but it seems like new Toyota is dragging it's feet. Going to bite them in the ass.

LOL. Put the crack pipe down.

New or Old Toyota isn't redesigning a multi billion dollar engine program for 100k engines.

No issues with the first engine in the family...the Lexus LS.

No issues?  I wouldn't say none, there have been documented failures with the Lexus LX. Much fewer than with the Tundra but they do exist. I have been following this real close as I was considering a new Lexus GX..

Things I have gleaned:

recall is for engines built both in Japan and in North America. Seems weird if it was the machining debris theory
Years affected: 2022, 2023 and soon to be 2024. Again seems weird for a debris theory.

What we know. Crank bearings are failing and could be a combo of inadequate oiling of the bearing, bearing size and light weight oil. Either way this engine so far does not look like a 4.7 or 5.7 in terms of anvil reliability. Hopefully Toyota figures it out.

[rrocket]

No issues?  I wouldn't say none, there have been documented failures with the Lexus LX.

I specifically said LS....not LX. As in LS500. Had the engine since 2018.

And despite 100k being in the batch recall, the engine failure rate was around 1 percent. Not high...but unacceptably high for Toyota.

[ktm525]

What worries me is they are failing early. I would be worried I am looking at crank bearings 4-5 years out. If Toyota simply offered a 300k mile  warranty on the bottom end that would provide peace of mind.

Strange the LS engines are not affected too. Handful of reports but nothing huge, then again Lexus only sold 2200 LS in 2023 in the US. It can't be machining debris over multiple years unless Toyota dismissed the issue at first.

[rrocket]

What worries me is they are failing early. I would be worried I am looking at crank bearings 4-5 years out. If Toyota simply offered a 300k mile  warranty on the bottom end that would provide peace of mind.

Strange the LS engines are not affected too. Handful of reports but nothing huge, then again Lexus only sold 2200 LS in 2023 in the US. It can't be machining debris over multiple years unless Toyota dismissed the issue at first.

That's the thing. I think if its affected, it's typically an early failure.

If it hasn't happened in 4-5 years...it's not likely affected.

1 percent doesn't scare me much.

[ktm525]

It would if it was your 30k to replace... If it is low% then Toyota should just offer free replacement for the next 10-15 years.

[rrocket]

It would if it was your 30k to replace..

You'll recall I had 2 Porsches with IMS bearings with a far greater failure rate. So again, 1 percent doesn't scare me.

They've only sold what..300k of these? And 100k will be recalled.

Low risk IMO. Potentially 1 percent of 200k vehicles. But those vehicles aren't in the recall window..so Toyota must know something we don't...